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You guys must be having a good chuckle with the way Jamison has come up short in these playoffs.

Did this guy ever come up big for you guys?

Honestly no. In the one series we have won in god knows how long (against the Bulls) he was horrible in game 5 (the won where Gilbert hit the game winner).

Andray Blatche is a better player than Jamison is.

crazytown wrote:You guys must be having a good chuckle with the way Jamison has come up short in these playoffs.

Did this guy ever come up big for you guys?

In what now looks like Fool's Gold, Jamison once averaged 32 points and 10 rebounds in a playoff series. That was against Cleveland.

He came up really big at the trade deadline, with the Wizards getting the 30th pick (along with Ilgauskas).

I actually feel a little sorry for the guy. Overall he's a good person and I generally respect him. I think he is embarrassed by the way he hurt his team this series. He was overmatched in every sense of the word against KG. He got beat down this series like a red-headed step child. I bet he felt all along that is he were on a better team he'd be a winner. I bet its a tough realization for him that he's a key contributor to why his team's have always been losers, if he didn't already know this. However, in the end what does it really matter? He's made over $130 million in his career, so what if his teams are losers?

Arenas Glad that Jamison is Going Home.

Jamison was always fools gold. Not big enough to be a PF nor quick enough to be SF and he came along with VC at UNC and they cruised on talent, so he never learned to play good D. So he can be a very good player on a bad team, a good 2-3 option on a team with someone playing like a super-star and a good defensive center behind him, but a liability as a starter on a team with deep play-off aspirations as he is the weakest link on the defensive chain. I think as a long term wizard fan what stood out for me was that he never hit both free throws when it mattered, which made me think he just wasn't mentally cut out to be a winner.

To give Jamison some props, he is a good character guy and he does care.

The place he came up biggest was the payroll. SO glad that out of all the teams we could have unloaded him on it was the Cavs!

The Jamison criticisms are mostly undue. Mike Brown completely mis-used him.

For one, he never should have made Jamison a starter. Anyone with half a brain knows Jamison struggles on defense -- mightily so against PF's with any length. Hickson's length and athleticism would have been much better matchups against KG -- at least to start the game. Heck, Hickson could have held his own against Perk for short spells while Varajeo -- a superior defender -- bothered KG. Terrible coaching mistake by Brown.

Offensively, Brown made Jamison into solely a spot up shooter who had the occasional opportunity to drive when players closed out on him. While those are aspects of his game, they're far from the whole picture. Despite his relative size, Jamison's extremely effective in the post with his array of off-balance and unconventional flip shots. He gets to the line (and draws a lot of fouls) too. Brown refused to his him this way and completely neutered his game.

Everyone here knew that moving Jamison was the right thing to do at the time and I think we're almost all happy with the trade. HIs lack of effectiveness has more to do with Brown's inability/refusal to play to AJ's strengths and mask his weaknesses.

fishercob wrote:The Jamison criticisms are mostly undue. Mike Brown completely mis-used him.

For one, he never should have made Jamison a starter. Anyone with half a brain knows Jamison struggles on defense -- mightily so against PF's with any length. Hickson's length and athleticism would have been much better matchups against KG -- at least to start the game. Heck, Hickson could have held his own against Perk for short spells while Varajeo -- a superior defender -- bothered KG. Terrible coaching mistake by Brown.

Offensively, Brown made Jamison into solely a spot up shooter who had the occasional opportunity to drive when players closed out on him. While those are aspects of his game, they're far from the whole picture. Despite his relative size, Jamison's extremely effective in the post with his array of off-balance and unconventional flip shots. He gets to the line (and draws a lot of fouls) too. Brown refused to his him this way and completely neutered his game.

Everyone here knew that moving Jamison was the right thing to do at the time and I think we're almost all happy with the trade. HIs lack of effectiveness has more to do with Brown's inability/refusal to play to AJ's strengths and mask his weaknesses.

+1, but AJ did miss everything last night, if he had hit even half of his shots, the Cavs would have been in the game. Brown is gone for-sure or should be.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:In what now looks like Fool's Gold, Jamison once averaged 32 points and 10 rebounds in a playoff series. That was against Cleveland.

fishercob wrote:The Jamison criticisms are mostly undue. Mike Brown completely mis-used him.

For one, he never should have made Jamison a starter. Anyone with half a brain knows Jamison struggles on defense -- mightily so against PF's with any length. Hickson's length and athleticism would have been much better matchups against KG -- at least to start the game. Heck, Hickson could have held his own against Perk for short spells while Varajeo -- a superior defender -- bothered KG. Terrible coaching mistake by Brown.

Offensively, Brown made Jamison into solely a spot up shooter who had the occasional opportunity to drive when players closed out on him. While those are aspects of his game, they're far from the whole picture. Despite his relative size, Jamison's extremely effective in the post with his array of off-balance and unconventional flip shots. He gets to the line (and draws a lot of fouls) too. Brown refused to his him this way and completely neutered his game.

Everyone here knew that moving Jamison was the right thing to do at the time and I think we're almost all happy with the trade. HIs lack of effectiveness has more to do with Brown's inability/refusal to play to AJ's strengths and mask his weaknesses.

+1 and +1

Jamison has indeed come up big in the playoffs before. And Jamison was definitely misutilized by Brown. Cleveland never really figured out how to properly integrate Jamison. Jamison is a liability on defense, but he is a very good offensive player. In order for Jamison to be of much use to Cleveland, he needed to be the clear #2 option on that team and have several plays run for him, and he should have been the #1 option when Lebron sat.

Brown relegated Jamison to a 3rd/4th option on offense where he simply didn't have enough opportunities for his offense to offset his lousy D.

But ultimately, the strategic mistake was made by Danny Ferry. Ferry added too many all-offense no-defense players to the roster (Mo Williams, Shaq, Jamison). Cleveland used to have a good formula. They played stifling defense and they ran the offense through Lebron in the 4th quarter with enough 3-point shooters to spread the floor. That philosophy was good enough to make the Finals once and the EC Finals a second time.

I thought the addition of Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon were smart because they played into that philosophy. I could understand the move for Shaq because Z was getting too old. But they made a mistake by going with Mo Williams instead of Daniel Gibson (who could shoot and defend) and they compounded the mistake by adding Jamison. They should have gone after somebody like Haslem.

I agree with the last few posts. Ironically, Jamison was more effective defensively last night than on offense. He did a better job on KG than V and Z did - though KG hit a couple of circus shots against V.

Jamison has had a few reliable performances during the playoffs before. But I don't think he's ever been characterized as *clutch*.

From 82 Games, Jamison averaged 21.8 ppg, 12.3 rpg on 40.8 FG% per 48 minutes of "clutch time" this season. In particular, he attempted 4.9 3s per 48, shooting an abysmal 16.7% from long distance in the "clutch."

Sure, studs like LeBron (66.1 ppg/15.9 rpg/8.3 apg, 48.8%) and Kobe (51.2 ppg/7.3 rpg, 44.4%) dwarf AJ's production during "clutch time," but they're HOF-bound players and #1 options for their team.

Even so, Jamison's numbers don't even measure up to other undersized PFs who aren't their team's #1 option:
Beasley (29.1 ppg/15.6 rpg, 53.1%),
David West (26.4 ppg, 12.8 rpg, 50.8%)
Landry (35.7 ppg, 15 rpg, 69.4%)

That's pretty on the nose, right?

Even Bargnani - a finesse, outside-shooting big - brings similar production at a much higher FG% (24.7 ppg, 88 rpg, 49.1%, 8.1 3pta at 30.1% from 3).

Notable players with similar or worse clutch stats than Jamison this season:
KG (20.6, 10.6 on 38.8%) - battling injuries
Shard Lewis (20.9, 6.8 on 41.9%; 7.3 3pta on 25% shooting) - he's the Magic's 4th option
Gay (17.8, 7.9 on 37.7%) - not good for a contract year
Gasol (17, 13.3 on 38.7%) - yeah, but everyone knows who the real closer is for LAL

Now, I know there's some noise in the data, but as most Wizards fan will tell you, the stats reflect Jamison's inability to make an impact down the stretch of many a game.

Colin Cowherd was saying that the Cavs lost because most of the top players were on the Celtics. I'm not sure of the complete construction of his list but he didn't even have Antawn Jamison as a top 8 player in the Cavs/Celtics series. He had Glen "Big Baby Davis" over "El Capitawn".

Have to mention this clutch performance by Antawn that I was there for:

Wizards 119 Clippers 109 3/15/08

no D in Hibachi wrote:I actually feel a little sorry for the guy. Overall he's a good person and I generally respect him. I think he is embarrassed by the way he hurt his team this series. He was overmatched in every sense of the word against KG. He got beat down this series like a red-headed step child. I bet he felt all along that is he were on a better team he'd be a winner. I bet its a tough realization for him that he's a key contributor to why his team's have always been losers, if he didn't already know this. However, in the end what does it really matter? He's made over $130 million in his career, so what if his teams are losers?

That pretty much sums up EVERY series MeTawn played in Washington...

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:In what now looks like Fool's Gold, Jamison once averaged 32 points and 10 rebounds in a playoff series. That was against Cleveland.

It was fools gold. Some of us said it at the time. You can describe that as a "playoff" series if you want but anyone who went to the games or watched it on TV could tell you that there was no playoff atmosphere that series. We were overmatched because of injuries and Cleveland basically toyed with us until the final five minutes of every game where they would lock down Jamison & everyone else down and ride LeBron to a victory. Those games had less intensity than a Warriors vs. Kings game in March.

Jamison was just overmatched & outclassed. I heard some analysts say Jamison "aged quickly" but honestly it was the same old Twan to me. He's always been outclassed by a heatlhy Garnett. It was no different from any other matchup against him in the past.

If you are playing a team that has Antawn as a starter, you know all you have to do is keep the game close and then give the ball to whoever Antawn is guarding down the stretch. Was it a Cleveland playoff game where on the last play of the game they gave the ball to some noname PF because AJ was guarding him, and Mr. noname scored the winning basket?

I love AJ but he had very clearly defined weaknesses in his defensive game that, when exploited by a smart coach, leads to automatic buckets. I'm not saying he's a slacker on d because god knows the dude tries hard. He's just limited.

I don't know if he should be a second option on offense but he is a last resort scorer, when the offense grinds to a halt give the ball to him and let him loosen up the opposing defense by slipping close to the post and throwing up one of those circus shots that demoralizes the defense. His jump shooting is a bonus, the slightly-closer-than-mid-range circus shot is why he earned his last contract.

If I was AJ's coach I would sit him down in some situations and say "When you've got a hot hand and the opposition is trying to force me to sub you out by attacking you defensively, I need you to really play within the concepts of the defense. I'm not asking you to turn into KG but I can only keep you in the game to the extent that you can turn offensive players in the direction our defensive scheme asks for." And then sub him out late in the game for defensive purposes if it isn't working. Sad because his scoring can keep you in it but his defense will take you right out again.

Dat2U wrote:

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:In what now looks like Fool's Gold, Jamison once averaged 32 points and 10 rebounds in a playoff series. That was against Cleveland.

It was fools gold. Some of us said it at the time. You can describe that as a "playoff" series if you want but anyone who went to the games or watched it on TV could tell you that there was no playoff atmosphere that series. We were overmatched because of injuries and Cleveland basically toyed with us until the final five minutes of every game where they would lock down Jamison & everyone else down and ride LeBron to a victory. Those games had less intensity than a Warriors vs. Kings game in March.

Jamison was just overmatched & outclassed. I heard some analysts say Jamison "aged quickly" but honestly it was the same old Twan to me. He's always been outclassed by a heatlhy Garnett. It was no different from any other matchup against him in the past.

As usual, you're over-reaching with the Jamison hate. Jamison had some very good games against KG, and played big roles in some improbable Wizard wins against the C's (remember the home and home sweep?)

It amazes me that Brown couldn't highlight AJ's strengths and mitigate his shortcomings when he's experienced both firsthand as an opponent for so long. KG barely had to defend Antawn in this series beyonf staying close enough to him on the perimieter to get a paw up on his shot, and Brown seldom had the right guys on the floor with Twan on the defensive end.

Jamison's no KG, but shame on Ferry and Brown for thinking anything close to otherwise.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

crazytown wrote:You guys must be having a good chuckle with the way Jamison has come up short in these playoffs.

Did this guy ever come up big for you guys?

In what now looks like Fool's Gold, Jamison once averaged 32 points and 10 rebounds in a playoff series. That was against Cleveland.

He came up really big at the trade deadline, with the Wizards getting the 30th pick (along with Ilgauskas).

seems to me that it is frequently the case that teams that trade
for players that have played well against them in the past, often
come to regret it. Does anyone remember Terry Catledge who had
a career game vs the Bullets before we acquired him in the Moses trade.