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I still stand by what Ive been saying. You take Turner. Gil will be good in the new system and he should be healthier. Plus, I think Turner will bring some added character to this team. Have you guys seen Wall in HS & College? Im sure that all of you who love him will soon be also ripping him for showing off or getting in some kind of trouble. You dont have those worries at all with Turner and we need that on this roster.

The also other huge thing that everyone is overlooking. What about Livingston? If we keep him then we definitely dont need another PG. Look, I wont be upset if we get Wall. I think it could work with the new Offense since both guard spots are pretty equal now but I think we are a better overall team with Turner. I think the #1 thing you have to do is to watch Gil in the offseason and I mean really really watch him. If he looks great then you take Turner. If he looks like he's still favoring the knee or hasnt gained back any of that quick step or leaping ability then you take Wall

If you make this something along the lines of "Who to pick: Wall vs. Turner" thread, it would be more useful for such a discussion.

Your team is taking John Wall, enough said.

I think it's not a cut and dry deal that the Wiz take John Wall. I think the Wiz would be foolish not to look at Evan Turner. He's game is really close to Brandon Roy and he already has a mid range game that off a Brandon Roy and a Paul Pierce. I think the Wiz or Philly would be happy with Turner. He has size and he can guard both 1s and 2s.

Wall or Bust

You got your franchise player, no need to eye ours

quality 2's and 3's come along WAY more often than franchise changing PGs. I don't want to spend the top pick of the draft on the next Brandon Roy.

CONGRATS Sixersftw, moving up feels good don't it??

NbdyBeatsTheWiz wrote:quality 2's and 3's come along WAY more often than franchise changing PGs. I don't want to spend the top pick of the draft on the next Brandon Roy.

CONGRATS Sixersftw, moving up feels good don't it??

I don't know- since the 2005 draft off the top of my head

1) Chris Paul
2) Deron Williams
3) Rajon Rondo
4) Brandon Jennings
5) Stephen Curry
6) Russell Westbrook
7) Derrick Rose


In terms of shooting guards you have:
1) Brandon Roy
2) Tyreke Evans

Small forwards
1) Kevin Durant
2) Danny Granger
3) Rudy Gay

I say just go with the best player on the board and it appears to be John Wall.

NbdyBeatsTheWiz wrote:quality 2's and 3's come along WAY more often than franchise changing PGs. I don't want to spend the top pick of the draft on the next Brandon Roy.

CONGRATS Sixersftw, moving up feels good don't it??

Only thing is this Turner is a PG/SG. He won player of the year last season playing the point. He already has a mid-range game that is nba ready. I just think he's a better all around basketball player then Wall. Just look at it this way John Wall is Brandon Jennings and Turner is Tyreke Evans.

Frank Lucas wrote:

NbdyBeatsTheWiz wrote:quality 2's and 3's come along WAY more often than franchise changing PGs. I don't want to spend the top pick of the draft on the next Brandon Roy.

CONGRATS Sixersftw, moving up feels good don't it??

Only thing is this Turner is a PG/SG. He won player of the year last season playing the point. He already has a mid-range game that is nba ready. I just think he's a better all around basketball player then Wall. Just look at it this way John Wall is Brandon Jennings and Turner is Tyreke Evans.

I guess I just see the ceiling far higher on Wall.

I think he certainly could be better than Westbrook, Curry, Jennings, Evans. On par with Paul, Williams, Rondo, and Rose.

John Wall is much further from his ceiling at 19 than Turner is in my opinion. I guess the big deal is can he get there, and I think he has the head on his shoulders to do so.

One analogy that jumps to mind with Wall v. Turner is Howard v. Okafor. Okafor was the more refined, polished player who had a great college career. Howard's stratospheric upside made him the better #1 pick.

The track record for PGs at the top of the draft has been REALLY good the past decade.

We have to take Wall. You draft the best player on the board, not for need.

Gilbert and Wall will be fine together, Gilbert is excellent off the ball. Flip's offense has two guards dominating the ball anyway.

The real question isn't so much Turner or Wall, it's what would NJ or Philly offer for the chance to move up to grab Wall? Or rather, what would entice us enough to move out of that spot? Keeping the pick and taking Turner should absolutely not happen under any circumstances, even if we believe he's the better pick (which I don't - I absolutely think Wall is the pick but we have a month until the draft, why not talk ourselves out of the right move).

We dont want Turner!!!!!!!!!!!! That would be like picking Okafor over Dwight Howard.

jmrosenth wrote:The real question isn't so much Turner or Wall, it's what would NJ or Philly offer for the chance to move up to grab Wall? Or rather, what would entice us enough to move out of that spot? Keeping the pick and taking Turner should absolutely not happen under any circumstances, even if we believe he's the better pick (which I don't - I absolutely think Wall is the pick but we have a month until the draft, why not talk ourselves out of the right move).

I can offer you a little take on philly's perspective. Our forum insider told us that the brass was really high on turner, and was going to do whatever it took to possibly trade up and get him..That seems no longer to be necessary. However, he also has told us that we will be more than happy to draft wall, if the wizards do in fact grab turner. Bottom line is that Philly will offer no deal to move up to the number 1. Like in most drafts, the team picking 1st is essentially picking for the team who holds the second pick as well. Philly seems to be happy with either wall or turner.

well look, I can say that a month ago I was mad high on Turner & lower than others on Wall. Lately Ive brought Wall up some and dropped Turner some but if you want to make a case for Turner then you can say 1st to look at Roy. I think he could potentialy be that type. Most think he is more ready to contribute at a high level right now than Wall. Look at his stats. 9 boards & 6ast? Thats Lebron type ****. I think he is being underrated in that regard. Attitude & Character? Who would you rather just have in the Wiz lockeroom? You really want Wall around the Blatche's & NY's of the world?

The next thing is that some of you are right in that the NBA has switched and now its about the explosive PG's but I also think people just have to accept that maybe its not so rare anymore. Maybe the athelete has just went to another level like every era does and now the PG's are like that. Im meaning in that Wall is a great athelete but all the top PG's every year now are. The other thing is Gil & the PG spot. Can you really get away with a Wall-Arenas backcourt in terms of enough balls & size? I dont want either of those guys guarding the 2 spot, not only for the team but for them personally.

Then what about Livingston? Shaun was a beast last year and if you put him on the floor with an Arenas-Howard & Turner then he will only look better to me. The combo of Shaun & Gil may be a better match than Wall & Gil because Shaun can guard the 2. I also believe in "the look". Can you honestly look in your head & picture Wall's face as the NBA Champ? I truly believe in stuff like that. The flip side though is that we have Flip and the good thing is that he was known for the Zone Defense so he's probably the 1 guy who could make the Gil-Wall thing work.

I also think both Gil & Wall are underrated in terms of needing the rock. Gil had 2 near 20pt scores beside him every year, he played strictly the 2 in College, he also basically split the 1 & 2 when Hughes was here and has always acted like he wanted that kind of situation back. Meanwhile Kentucky had alot of ball handlers at all times so its not like Wall needs it. You could damn near argue that Turner had the rock more than Wall.

My problem is that I still may just be living in the past too much & wishing on a star in that Gil with feeling solid last season and only playing part of the year will be fully healthy for the 1st time in years and like in all of pro sports, you wont be fully all the way back until your 2nd year. I just hold out wish that next year he will have that 1st step back & ability to rise at the rim. If Gil has that then I say he still would just abuse a Wall, Rose, Westbrook, & Rondo. He's still much stronger than them when healthy, much more physical offensivley, and knows how to position his body the best to draw fouls. Will that guy return? If he does then that may make me want Turner but if he doesnt then you would obviously want Wall and maybe even would want to try to trade Arenas.

The one thing I hated the most about Gil last year is that he didnt have that fast paced mindset anymore so that is 1 reason why I would love a Wall. I remember in his prime that everytime Gil touched it in the backcourt he would try to run with it. Now he just does a light jog while scanning the floor. Even Flip keeps waving his hands telling him to go and talks in every post game about needing to push the ball more. Wall would bring that and in alot of ways, I think Gil woud feed off that. The other thing I like about Wall is that you can start him & Gil, bring in NY or Thorton at like the 4min mark and then when Gil sits at the end of the quarter, you can bring Wall back in to run the point at the start of the 2nd. That keeps fast pace & explosion on the floor at all times.

Another thing is fan excitment. I think Wall obviously wins that and they would love all game having both or either a Wall & Gil on the floor together. Lets get back to the Gil feeding off thing again. Sometimes I thought last year that Gil actually was a little mentally defeated and there were times that he couldve exploded at the rim even phsyically but he had lost the will to do so. I think seeing a Wall doing all this athletic stuff would make Gil feed off that and not want to be shown up. I think it would make Gil start atleast trying to explode again at the rim and on the 1st step.

Youre not losing out either way and in terms of the team around them, you can make a case for both guys. Turner would be great because we already have Gil & Livingston. His size, character, & all around play would be a perfect fit. On the other hand Wall would be perfect because we have Thorton, NY, and could also bring back a Howard. The size problems would be made up for by our mismatch on Offense & Flip's zone on defense. Its clear that both guys play had, both play with a passion, and both are unselfish which is something we really need. Either way we will be good to go. I will say that Im noticing a shift in the upper team & managment's tone on Gil. At 1st the last couple of months it seems as though they had resigned themselves to the fact that Gil was ours and coming back. Now if you hear them talk all the time since yesterday they keep saying they "expect" for Gil to be back and they said some other slick words.

The one good thing is that EG said Gil was back at the facility & working with the trainers on the daily so he seems focused. I just think they felt they had no chance at the #1 spot and that Gil would obviously be needed then no matter who else they got but now if you get Wall then you can make a case for Gil not being needed. I wouldnt even ever consider moving him unless they are watching him know and he looks like a shell of himself of even the same guy that he was last year. You will hope that he has improved but at the same time, if he did improve then you probably wouldnt see it this early because he wont reach top form until near October sometime

I may read that if you cut it in half and then give me the Cliff Note's version.

everyone knows thats the dlt way but I dont get upset if people dont read it. I dont read long stuff half the time either, lol

fishercob wrote:One analogy that jumps to mind with Wall v. Turner is Howard v. Okafor. Okafor was the more refined, polished player who had a great college career. Howard's stratospheric upside made him the better #1 pick.

Agreed, And Okafor had alot of fans & experts saying that he should be the #1 pick at the time.

I think Turner will be a fine NBA player but not only do I think Wall has more upside, I honestly believe he's truly the better fit as well.

dlts20 wrote:well look, I can say that a month ago I was mad high on Turner & lower than others on Wall. Lately Ive brought Wall up some and dropped Turner some but if you want to make a case for Turner then you can say 1st to look at Roy. I think he could potentialy be that type. Most think he is more ready to contribute at a high level right now than Wall. Look at his stats. 9 boards & 6ast? Thats Lebron type ****. I think he is being underrated in that regard. Attitude & Character? Who would you rather just have in the Wiz lockeroom? You really want Wall around the Blatche's & NY's of the world?

Just curious, exactly what are these character issues that should preclude us from drafting John Wall?