RealGM

First of all, I'm glad the Wizards' luck has changed for the better. The optimism, enthusiasm, and attention from fans of all teams and media alike have really given long-suffering Wizards fans hope for brighter days ahead. A lot of fair-weather fans are back. Some fans are jumping off the Cavs or the Magic's bandwagons to climb aboard with the Wizards. That's all good.

John Wall is the most exciting college prospect of all. He is every mock's #1 pick. Consensus #1 picks since Kwame Brown have all turned out to be studs. John Wall is a stud. He will be at the very least a very good NBA player. No doubt scouts think he's destined for greatness.

If I were to project by comparing stats, Wall's stats do compare very favorably to the NCAA stats of Derrick Rose's. They are also similar (but not as good assists/turnovers) to Deron Williams.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Joh ... 339/stats/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Der ... 068/stats/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Der ... -72/stats/

If you really want to get happy, Wall's numbers are not far off those of Dwyane (DX spelled it that way) Wade's. Less rebounds and blocks (but UK had Patterson and Cousins for that), better assists, and about the same turnovers. Slightly less steals, but Wall's numbers resemble Wade's.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dwy ... 726/stats/

To which I say, "DAMN!" I'm happy now.

I had prepared to post some negatives about John Wall, because my gut feeling is that Tim Legler is right--Wall has a lot of things to work on. Now I'm not so sure about that....

Doesn't this belong in the John Wall appreciation thread?

WizStorm wrote:Doesn't this belong in the John Wall appreciation thread?

WS, I had a long post about negatives that got deleted due to my poor cut and paste techniques. ON the second effort I decided to be objective and start with the positives. Needless to say, I changed my mind.

Still, I'm working on the negatives .... don't lock this yet.

remind yourself he's 19. Then think how good he'll be when he's 23-25.

The thing I could see him continuing to struggle with is the turnover ratio. But Turner has the same issue. I think part of the excitement is the worst case is likely Rondo and at least 20 teams in the NBA would be fine with having a PG at that level.

If there is a superstar in this draft, I think Wall is much more likely to be the "Hakeem Olajuwan"(sp?) of this draft than a "Sam Bowie" or Kwame Brown.

glad you're on board CCJ, seeing as I respect your opinion more than most and feel dumb disagreeing with ya

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/pr ... erId=45885

Negatives are what others have posted: Wall's not a true PG and he's at times an erratic shooter.

In the games against Rider, Hartford, UNC Asheville, and E. Tennessee State, Wall totaled 52 assist and only 7 turnovers. That's better than a 7:1 assists/turnover ratio. However, in the other 33 games he was only 241-52 and 149-7, or 189 assists to 142 turnovers. That's a 1.33:1 or 4:3 assists/turnover ratio. The uptempo games against very weak competition skewed his playmaking totals greatly.

Wall is murder in uptempo but he's not necessarily a true PG. I think in halfcourt this will show in the NBA.

Next, in the games they did lose to South Carolina, Tennessee, and ultimately to West Virginia; in addition to turning it over, Wall shot very poorly. He shot 6-16 against S.C. (and 4-15 in the next meeting against the same team). He had 2 assists and 4 turnovers that first meeting. Against Tennessee he shot 6-16 and had 5 assists with 6 turnovers. (EDIT-forget that because he fared well in 2 other wins over Tennessee.) Last, in the loss to West Virginia--my entire reason for having reservations about Wall--he shot 7-18 after falling in love with the three. (4-8) and had 5 assists and 5 turnovers. That game soured me on Wall and showed the way to beat UK was to pack it in and stop Cousins.

Last thing I have to say is Wall is great.

I still think Cousins is the best player in this draft, however. Cousins has some phenomenally good numbers IMO. But the Wizards can hardly even think of passing on Wall.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote: Wall's not a true PG and he's at times an erratic shooter.

Sounds eerily similar to a description of Larry Hughes.

Except Wall's J should get better. to quote him:

My jump shot is the key thing. Guys go on the pick and roll and will force me to knock down shots. I want to be one of those point guards who knock down shots you have to get over the top. I want to make it easier on my teammates. I'm not going to take bad shots but take shots that are open for me. I feel like I can be a great defensive player when I put my mind to it for the whole game, not just half the game

Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/ ... z0oONxmDmK

Plus the last time we had a guard of his current mold next to Gil we reached the second round. And he'll clearly improve. I'll take it...

NbdyBeatsTheWiz wrote:glad you're on board CCJ, seeing as I respect your opinion more than most and feel dumb disagreeing with ya

Thanks, NBTW. Wall's better than what I had been thinking prior to really looking into his performance.

The things that I wonder about are his coexistence with Gil, and moreso, how he'll fare with a coach I'm not that crazy about. Flip stifles creativity IMO. He's an autocrat who's hard on young players. He routinely throws them under the bus.

What Wall has going for him that might make even my worst fears moot is that he's a solid to great defender, when motivated. He's a standup young man. Not a knucklehead. That plus being a sublime talent might make even Flip to not be a hater.

Nick Young and Javale McGee are athletic NBA players who Flip really didn't want to play, regardless of how much more effective Young was than Stevenson or any other SG Flip played. McGee's last seven games showed he could play. I fault Flip Saunders for wanting things to be perfectly executed or for wanting a certain type of guy (compliant, veteran, suck up) over valuing athleticism.

NBTW, I think Wall's going to have problems running a team the way Flip wants it done.

Fortunately, I think Gil's already here and Wall will be a helluva good SG before he's THE PG.

NbdyBeatsTheWiz wrote:

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote: Wall's not a true PG and he's at times an erratic shooter.

Sounds eerily similar to a description of Larry Hughes.

Except Wall's J should get better. to quote him:

My jump shot is the key thing. Guys go on the pick and roll and will force me to knock down shots. I want to be one of those point guards who knock down shots you have to get over the top. I want to make it easier on my teammates. I'm not going to take bad shots but take shots that are open for me. I feel like I can be a great defensive player when I put my mind to it for the whole game, not just half the game

Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/ ... z0oONxmDmK

Plus the last time we had a guard of his current mold next to Gil we reached the second round. And he'll clearly improve. I'll take it...

Wall's probably a MUCH better Larry Hughes. Hughes was darned good his last season with the Wizards.

Washington's got the resources now to go beyond the second round if they add the right player. Folks are taliking about Lebron--and I wouldn't rule him out just yet. Don't forget, though, that Bosh is out there. Nowitzki can opt out. (Kidd and Terry for Gil works in the checker. Might wink-wink and steal Dirk, who can play along side Blatche. Haywood would come with him.) Bosh is also a very real possibility. If I'm not mistaken, Yao can opt out. Even Boozer works at PF with Blatche out of position at C (or better with Haywood back and Dray as sixth man).

I see the Wizards really attracting FA now.

Yeah its hard to say which guy will be the less than ideal "PG" off the jump, but I think both will do a good job of causing chaos offensively setting others up in the process, to the point where it won't matter who's the "point guard".

Gil's already proven he makes those around him better (Hughes, Caron, AJ, etc.). I don't think Wall will be much different.

I just don't see a difference between Wall in college and Rose in college. Their strengths are nearly identical, as are their weaknesses. Maturity-wise, they're on the same page as well (neither being too "ball-hoggish or shot-jackerish, both gym rats who want to be the best they possibly can, both just wanting to win).

I don't see much need for an advanced scouting report or player assessment when you have what amounts to be his identical twin in Derrick Rose.

dobrojim wrote:remind yourself he's 19. Then think how good he'll be when he's 23-25.

When athleticism meets proficiency that comes with time and wisdom he'll be phenomenally good, most likely.

jim, another kid, DeMarcus Cousins at 19 is even more impressive to me. Only getting Eddy Curry/Mike Sweetney fat; or suffering debilitating mental problems can hold him back. Regardless of all that I read about Wall, I'm convinced he's not even the best player on his team.

Cousins is the best player in this draft. Doug Collins once said let's get greedy. I really want Cousins, too. His combination of skill and girth, and his rebounding numbers with blocks and steals, all make me think he's going to come into the league as a top-5 C.

Comparing Rose & Wall. Rose has a little more wiggle to his game. I'd also say his ballhandling skills are slightly more advanced than Wall's. Wall has pure blazing speed. Baseline to baseline, Wall is unparalleled. Both have elite body control & vertical to finish around the basket.

I think Wall's PG skills are underrated. I think he's less of scorer & more a pure PG than Rose. That's the main difference b/w the two IMO.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:The things that I wonder about are his coexistence with Gil, and moreso, how he'll fare with a coach I'm not that crazy about. Flip stifles creativity IMO. He's an autocrat who's hard on young players. He routinely throws them under the bus.

I don't think you make a decision based on how he'll coexist with Gil or Flip. Who knows if Gil or Flip will be here one or two years from now. If there's any problems, then I'm squarely looking at dumping Gil & Flip to remove those problems.

And Cousins would have problems with Flip too. Cousins will have problems with any coach. That's just his makeup. Sorta like a rogue version of Rasheed Wallace who bitches at his coaches instead of the officials.

I really do like Cousins. But I'd worry about a meltdown if he had the pressure of being the #1 pick on him. He's just too sensitive. Add in Flip criticizing him or throwing him under bus and you've got a recipe for disaster.

Now if we could somehow procure another pick in the 3-5 range, I'd love to add Cousins to go with Wall. But there's no way in hell I'm picking Cousins over Wall. The game has changed. It's a guard's league now. There's always a place for a throwback like Cousins, but Wall will be the type of guy you can give the keys to and win alot of games with him running the show.

After thinking about it some more, I've come to the belief that.....

We're gettin' John Wall! Wooh!



OK, I guess that's actually pretty well where I've been at since the news broke.

I think I got a few more of those in me, though. I'm just warning everyone now.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Wall is murder in uptempo but he's not necessarily a true PG. I think in halfcourt this will show in the NBA.

Here's the thing. I stated this in another thread, but can re-emphasize it here. We have no idea what the capacity of this 19 year old kid can be, in the half court or otherwise, given good tutelage.

But what we do know is in this system we have a coach who likes to put the ball in the hands of a ball-dominant player who can break down opponents off the dribble when all else fails. We have a coach with a pretty good track record of converting attack minded PGs into team players, increasing assist totals etc. Granted we lack two players to really improve his game: a catch-and-shoot gunner with range & efficiency, and a low-post power player who can finish after contact. But aside from that we have a pretty good synch between Player, Coach, and System. Theory.

Then as an assistant coach in Sammy we have an attack-minded PG who knows how to teach the pick and roll, midrange, and low-post game -- as well as all the nasty little tricks and inside wrinkles that maximize your advantage over the opponent and use the refs as your allies. A guy who knows the minutia of things like footwork and will drill that with the young pup to exhaustion. A guy who is young enough to be able to consistently demonstrate techniques in a halfcourt game. Watch and repeat.

Then in Gil we have a notoriously fanatical worker, who carefully drills proper technique to increase range and accuracy, who has the advantage ( I call it) of being desperate to prove himself. Dedicated to prove he's a team player, not a disruptive influence, a role-model and mentor perhaps, but who knows that the only way his reputation is redeemed is if his team wins. We've guy who can challenge his Teammate to raise his game, and a guy who has shown he can run in a twin guard system with remarkable success, coasting and drafting behind the other guy until it's time to take over, and vie versa. Who relished the role whereby he and Larry could act as Bench for each other, impossible to load up to guard one or the other since at any moment either could go off. Reference Larry's success next to Gil, vs post-Gil.

And with all that we have a guy in John Wall who is a student of the game. Check the recent quotes where he was admiring Kobe's footwork, making a mental note to incorporate that aspect of his game.

This is a kid who has been able to survive on superior talent, but who admits there is no way he would have been ready for the league if he tried to jump from high school. Who takes pride in disproving naysayers by earning a 3.5 GPA. Who by accounts of Coach Cal is a hard worker and dedicated student -- this same Coach Cal who held the hands of Rose and Evans for a minute before they were unleashed on the league.

I submit we have no idea what the ultimate upside is of a kid this talented and this young. But at least we have a template, a framework -- seems to me in John Wall we have a guy who can incorporate any lesson that this crew can teach him. And then some.

He has two flaws: he's young, he doesn't shoot all that well from long range, yet. Fortunately those are the two easiest flaws to fix in the NBA.

Also (and Nate has brought this up before when talking about Wall), when the kid comes to the NBA, life becomes easier for him. The no hand-checking rule is going to help him a lot and I can see him piling up fouls for the other team because of it.

Although I worry about our lack of a true-center, long-term we are better-off building with Wall. We will just have to coach-up McGee and find another big via draft or FA.

closg00 wrote:Although I worry about our lack of a true-center, long-term we are better-off building with Wall. We will just have to coach-up McGee and find another big via draft or FA.

I'd like to think we can find another big with one of our other two picks or by combining those to move up to get one we like. Focus EG, focus.