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Alright, I found this off the front page of Bullets Forever. Ernie's trying to move Gil with even a buyout still possible?

http://www.thegrio.com/sports/will-the- ... arenas.php

And not the national media, John Mitchell....

I don't know what to say. It seems the only Gil move is a tank move. Rather a lot to process.

My take is the coaching staff and the front office have a bit of a disconnect in their views on how Gil staying put would work.

And this is where it is going to be a problem having a buffoon still running the show here.

Here comes a Gil buyout. Yipee! That's REALLY going to help this franchise.

Hoopalotta wrote:Alright, I found this off the front page of Bullets Forever. Ernie's trying to move Gil with even a buyout still possible?

http://www.thegrio.com/sports/will-the- ... arenas.php

And not the national media, John Mitchell....

I don't know what to say. It seems the only Gil move is a tank move. Rather a lot to process.

My take is the coaching staff and the front office have a bit of a disconnect in their views on how Gil staying put would work.

If Wall is our pick, I agree the Wiz should try to move Gilbert. And, it has nothing to do with what Gil did this year. I just don't think a Wall/Gil backcourt will work. Both Wall and Gilbert are better with the ball in their hands and with both on the court together, you are going to be limiting one or both. More importantly, if Wall is going to be a PG, I'd rather find a 2 that can defend the bigger 2s in the league. Going forward, I want us to build a team that can play both ways and Wall can do that...Gil wont. With that said, buying out Gil would be a classic "cut off your nose to spite your face" move. If we can't trade Gil before the season starts, I'd rather keep Gil around at least until the trade deadline and see if there is a possibility Gil/Wall can mesh. If they dont mesh like I expect, the Wiz can hopefully move Gil after other teams see that he has fully recovered from his knee injuries and is staying out of trouble (which I believe will be the case).

The crap about Gil being "poison" is ridiculous. Gil might make stupid decisions and is a prankster, but there is no doubt he has the right work ethic. I'd be more worried about Dray and Young being a negative influence than Gil.

Finally, MIke's sources are bafoons. Even if you believe Gilbert is a cancer, you don't say that to a reporter if you really want to move him. If anything, just say that the organization would like to move Gilbert because they don't think Gil and Wall would mesh well, and the organization wants a fresh start.

dandridge 10 wrote:I just don't think a Wall/Gil backcourt will work. Both Wall and Gilbert are better with the ball in their hands and with both on the court together, you are going to be limiting one or both.

I see it more that we'd have the fuel tank to be in 'penetrate and attack mode' for a good 48 minutes or so a game. To have just one set of legs running that game-in, game-out over 82 48-minute sessions seems like a heavy burden to carry, even if those legs are 20 years old.

Same reason I see Rose and LeBron working in Chicago. You might have duplication, but it's of a job that takes a heck of a lot of energy and leads to a pretty fair bit of physical punishment.

Finally, MIke's sources are bafoons. Even if you believe Gilbert is a cancer, you don't say that to a reporter if you really want to move him. If anything, just say that the organization would like to move Gilbert because they don't think Gil and Wall would mesh well, and the organization wants a fresh start.

It's actually John Mitchell, not a Mike, but yeah. In fact I can't imagine that anyone with any authority in the organization would be so stoopid as to go there. An intern listening in on a closed door meeting with a cup?

Ugh, please get rid of EG, Leonsis. I fear this might be the Jagr situation for the Wizards, getting rid of Arenas even if it means eating some of that salary. Would be sort of ironic if he were traded to the New York just like Jagr. Curry is Anson Carter lol.


I don't want Arenas traded, but I guess we'll all see.

Those totally ready to dump Gil when his value goes up are discounting a new element in the mix - Ted Leonsis. Ted will sit down with Gil, and might, just might be able to help Gil get his head screwed on right. If so, and Gil comes close to what many still believe his potential is, it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to keep him.

If we need to dump him, fine, but just a reminder, the number of people that can get open with 10 seconds less in a tight game and drain the shot more often than not can be counted on not more than two hands and Gil is probably still on that list. I am not ready to discount the possibility that Gil as a SG might still be All-Star calibur, and a worthy person to have on the floor. Lets let Ted try to do his magic "Peace & Happiness Thing" with Gil before we advocate dumping him for expiring.

EDIT: Just to be clear though, if it turns out that Gil and Wall just can't play together well, then yeah, dump him as soon as you can.

Tyrone Messby wrote:Ugh, please get rid of EG, Leonsis. I fear this might be the Jagr situation for the Wizards, getting rid of Arenas even if it means eating some of that salary. Would be sort of ironic if he were traded to the New York just like Jagr. Curry is Anson Carter lol.


I don't want Arenas traded, but I guess we'll all see.

Whatever happens, I really really don't want the Wizards to take on Curry. Like, that would be a fairly horrid prospect. Poor basketball IQ, lazy, and a selfish ballhog to boot isn't really the combination I want up front on a young team.

Hoopalotta wrote:Alright, I found this off the front page of Bullets Forever. Ernie's trying to move Gil with even a buyout still possible?

http://www.thegrio.com/sports/will-the- ... arenas.php

And not the national media, John Mitchell....

I don't know what to say. It seems the only Gil move is a tank move. Rather a lot to process.

My take is the coaching staff and the front office have a bit of a disconnect in their views on how Gil staying put would work.

This guy is a controversy mongering douche bag. So called high level sources are a cop out for actual, on the record reporting. The bit about Blatche becoming the wiz's best player after Arenas was suspended is, while technically true, is a disingenuos stretch. He became our best player when the shot jacking, no D Trojan horse who ate up all his minutes was traded away.

Don't believe this guy.

I was having an unclean feeling as I read it, yeah.

The one thing that gave that story credibility is that it reflects what to me has been the thinking and the behavior of the franchise.

One source tagged Arenas as "the reason why a core of players that reached the playoffs" on multiple occasions had to be broken up, "and it was entirely due to what he did. He poisoned the team. He is a cancer."

Isn't that just like the franchise, thinking there was nothing wrong with the team, but then Arenas done effed it up and we had to break it all up. It's all his fault.

The Wizards and Grunfeld looked the other way and did not punish or discipline Arenas when he defecated in the shoe of Andray Blatche during his rookie season. Blatche, incidentally, became the best player on the team last season after Arenas was suspended by the league for the guns he brought to the locker room.

Some might see that as bad management, but it's all Arenas' fault. It was our job to look the other way. He let us down.

His relationship with Grunfeld, which was once considered one of the strongest player-executive relationships in the NBA, has eroded to the point that the two have barely spoken over the last two months."

I'll bet Arenas' was Grunfeld's best buddy after he got a $111 million contract (far higher than anyone else could have paid, although termed a "discount") even though he was injured. It's all Arenas' fault.

So the team was fine, management of the team was fine, and Arenas' contract was fine. The only problem was Arenas. The reason I can somewhat believe this article is because all this BS sounds so familiar.

*Quotes are from "Why the Washington Wizards will axe Arenas" by John Mitchell
http://www.thegrio.com/sports/will-the- ... arenas.php

Tyrone Messby wrote:Ugh, please get rid of EG, Leonsis. I fear this might be the Jagr situation for the Wizards, getting rid of Arenas even if it means eating some of that salary. Would be sort of ironic if he were traded to the New York just like Jagr. Curry is Anson Carter lol.


I don't want Arenas traded, but I guess we'll all see.

If Arenas is traded, it's because Ted Leonsis said to trade him.

Bickerstaff wrote:

Tyrone Messby wrote:Ugh, please get rid of EG, Leonsis.

If Arenas is traded, it's because Ted Leonsis said to trade him.

Yeah, or at least on board with it.

I think the only way we deal Gil is if we're tanking next year after we fill our cap space with expiring BOYD deals. It's the complete and total deconstruction and a full on OKC move as best I can see.

It doesn't even really seem to fit so much with signing free agents next summer outside of maybe 'Melo. It seems that if we were going after one of the bigs (Noah, Gasol, Hortford or Perkins) we'd just keep Gil.

Wizardspride wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/19/AR2010051904696_2.html?sid=ST2010052000049

"

I know him to be a great player and a really sweet kid," Leonsis said of Arenas. "Certainly, last year there was a lot of turmoil, not only in his personal life, but what it brought the team and the franchise. My style is to not have any opinions. I'm predisposed to really liking him. Hopefully, he'll like and respect me.

"

Look, the whole report could be a complete and total fabrication, but I can't see a quote from Ted to the media and take it at face value. He has every reason to say that no matter what. I mean, nobody was like 'dude, Caesar, we're totally all going to stab you tomorrow".

Again though, the quotes in their are so ridiculously vindictive and counter productive that it's hard to believe that someone within the organization would allow that to get out even if it were the truth. That's just a horribly ruinous leak right there that degrades the clubs position pretty badly.

But if they do decide to move Gil, Ted needs to sign off on it. He's the final arbiter for everything we do.

It feels pretty strange to even be thinking about this again after mentally getting adjusted for agent 6 and the twin-guard attack for the past few months.

Hoopalotta wrote:

Wizardspride wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/19/AR2010051904696_2.html?sid=ST2010052000049

"

I know him to be a great player and a really sweet kid," Leonsis said of Arenas. "Certainly, last year there was a lot of turmoil, not only in his personal life, but what it brought the team and the franchise. My style is to not have any opinions. I'm predisposed to really liking him. Hopefully, he'll like and respect me.

"

Look, the whole report could be a complete and total fabrication, but I can't see a quote from Ted to the media and take it at face value. He has every reason to say that no matter what. I mean, nobody was like 'dude, Caesar, we're totally all going to stab you tomorrow".

Again though, the quotes in their are so ridiculously vindictive and counter productive that it's hard to believe that someone within the organization would allow that to get out even if it were the truth. That's just a horribly ruinous leak right there that degrades the clubs position pretty badly.

But if they do decide to move Gil, Ted needs to sign off on it. He's the final arbiter for everything we do.

It feels pretty strange to even be thinking about this again after mentally getting adjusted for agent 6 and the twin-guard attack for the past few months.

This is where I disagree...Ted doesn't have to say ANYTHING about Arenas. Basketball is EG's control and if Ted didnt like Arenas he just wouldn't talk about him. When you see things like that quoted from Teddy, take them as the truth, thats the kind of guy he is. If he wasn't behind Arenas and didn't really like him, you just wouldn't hear anything from him.

I expect the twin guards will more likely be Wall and Livingston, and that Gilbert has played his last game as a Wizard. I believe John Mitchell. (There's a similar discussion in another thread about this.)

http://www.thegrio.com/sports/will-the- ... arenas.php

What will probably happen IMO is the Wizards will trade him to any team that gives them an offer.

I think Gil and Ernie are at an impasse and the breach in their relationship will prevent any moving forward. I think Wall coming in as THE LEADER won't happen with Gil around. I think the Wizards, who sent Irene Pollin and kept EG (remember their statements before the facts about Gil's case even came out) are being duplicitous about moving forward with Gil in their plans. Ernie's lying about Gil's future with this team IMO. For the record, I think Grunfeld's actions were disgraceful and disloyal, regardless of how much Gil brought things on himself. I believe it's unfortunate that Ted Leonsis is firmly in Ernie Grunfeld's corner.

As for Gilbert, I doubt he wants to play for the Wizards and that he himself has asked to be traded. He knows changes that are coming all point to his exit.

If I had to guess, I'd say the Wizards probably trade Gil to somebody like Portland or Golden State, somewhere out west. If they buy him out--it wouldn't shock me at all if Gilbert took a huge salary cut just to get out of this contract and be a free agent--I suspect Gil ends up in someplace like Miami or New York. Altanta sure could use him as an upgrade over Bibby. He'd take Jameer Nelson's spot in Orlando, where the GM loves him. (I could see the Wizards trade for Rashard Lewis' contract--that's an EG move!) Heck, I could see him going to Cleveland and Lebron staying there.

Gil's done as a Wizard. Wall better be the real deal because the last time the Pollins soured on a player, that player (Chris Webber) had a decent run with another team.

So will Gilbert.

my sense is that there is a lot of truth to that article by Mitchell. The Wizards want to unload Arenas as painlessly as possible. Ideally, they trade him for 2011 expirings. The only way they agree to a buy out is if it's for substantially less then his remaining salary.

Overall, I think dumping Arenas is the right move. Wall will develop faster if he is handed the reigns on Day 1. Also, if Arenas is leaving, the odds of resigning Livingston increase dramatically. I'd much rather have a 24 year old Livingston at $3-5M a year, than a 29 year old Arenas at $20M a year.

nate33 wrote:my sense is that there is a lot of truth to that article by Mitchell. The Wizards want to unload Arenas as painlessly as possible. Ideally, they trade him for 2011 expirings. The only way they agree to a buy out is if it's for substantially less then his remaining salary.

Overall, I think dumping Arenas is the right move. Wall will develop faster if he is handed the reigns on Day 1. Also, if Arenas is leaving, the odds of resigning Livingston increase dramatically. I'd much rather have a 24 year old Livingston at $3-5M a year, than a 29 year old Arenas at $20M a year.

Dumping him right now, with his value at an all-time low and with John Wall being hyped as the MJ of point guards makes me very cynical.

I think Gil's proven and I saw him play well for Flip. Makes a ton more sense to me to be patient like EG was when EJ wanted Brendan Haywood gone. This time it's the GM and the Pollin family hating Gil and vice versa. I saw what they did with Chris Webber in knee jerk manner. I've seen Grunfeld make some horrible moves prior to his epiphany at the trade deadline. I don't trust him to do anything but f this up.

The better move would be to wait and see, but that's NOT what the Wizards will do.

Somebody else posted this (don't remember if it was DaRealHibachi or NobodyBeatsTheWiz or Hoopalotta) and I agree the smart thing to do is to wait til he builds up his trade value and to trade Gil in February, before the deadline.

Make Gil and Wall compete for that job at PG. Wall is 19 and not going anywhere. Gil's already lost a lot of money being suspended this season and dude's on probation 2 years. He'll walk the line. Probably can't help but like Wall if they become teammates.

Wizards should hold onto the known all star and they should let Ernie the shape-shifter and Irene Pollin find somebody else to hate on.

I don't see what the druthers of the Pollin family has to do with anything anymore.

Donk,
My feeling is that it's just so much money that Ted would need to give some kind of endorsement when asked directly in an interview. 'no comment' would be wiretap worthy.

But realize that I'm not saying that Ted DOES want Gil moved and that his words are hollow, just rather that it COULD be that way. I have no actual idea, so I'm just saying 'potentially'.

nate, Shaun Livingston had a few good games but he's more of an injury risk than Gil, who's been IMO seven times the baller Livingston will ever be.

I know what Livingston did was really impressive, but it's amazing to me how quickly people forget how good Gil is. Ironic that I hated Gil's contract and have been his biggest critic for a long time, but right now I see how he played when he came back.

THE ONE THING THAT WOULD MAKE THE WIZARDS SEEM WISE IN DUMPING GIL is if they know Gil's knee's arthritic and that his effective playing days are numbered. The injury and his contract and not his image or the rift between him and EG would be reason to dump Gil.

But see, I don't think it's about his injury at all. It's bad blood why they want to part with Gil.

nate33 wrote:Overall, I think dumping Arenas is the right move. Wall will develop faster if he is handed the reigns on Day 1. Also, if Arenas is leaving, the odds of resigning Livingston increase dramatically. I'd much rather have a 24 year old Livingston at $3-5M a year, than a 29 year old Arenas at $20M a year.

I'm kind of torn. On the one hand it would rationalize the whole organizational posture as far as direction, but....well, insert a sentimental argument here that doesn't really hold up about Gil and Wall being exciting together.