Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part V)

Post #1 » by **LyricalRico** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:44 am

Continuing where the last thread left off...

How about this crazy deal after July 1 when BYC's expire:

Hornets trade: Paul, Okafor, and Posey
Pacers trade: Murphy, Dunleavy, Ford, rights to Paul George, future first

Why for NOH? They basically wipe their cap clean in preparation for the new CBA while getting another young piece. George would join West, Thornton, Collison, Brackins, and Pondexter to form a solid core that they can build around while saving money.

Why for Indy? It's a lot of money to spend but depending on how free agency shakes out, they may need to do something like this if they want to compete in the East during Granger's prime.

Foster/Hibbert
Okafor/Hansbrough
Granger/Posey
Jones/Rush
Paul/Price

That's pretty legit, and better overall than anything Chris Paul had in New Orleans IMO.

mhd · Post #2 » by **mhd** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:20 am

Horntes aren't trading Paul. If they were, they should have gone to NJ to get the 3rd pick.

Post #3 » by **LyricalRico** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:42 am

What if they tried but declined because NJ wanted them to take back Harris? The point of my deal isn't just to trade Paul, it's to wipe their cap completely clean. Sure, they're out of the luxury tax after dumping MoPete and Peja's deal comes off the books next season. But they still won't really be able to spend to add anybody to help them compete.

The reality for them is that even with a healthy Paul, they might not be able to win the 50 games it takes to make the playoffs in an improved Western Conference. And even if they do make the playoffs they won't get anywhere close to a title, so what's the point of having a team that's not a tax payer but still over the cap? This way they can wipe the slate completely clean in advance of the new CBA and be in a position to take advantage of teams that are hurt by the new salary structure.

Hoopalotta · Post #4 » by **Hoopalotta** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:48 am

T-Wolves, Warriors and Jazz fans are decidedly not pleased. Not pleased at all.

The Wolves have how many wings who can't create their own shot now? Johnson, Webster, Brewer & Lazar?

Udoh at 6 along with a fire sale?

Gordon Hayward? Dunno, but I don't like it at 9.

The Celtics are really poised to be torn down now too. It's almost official now. They've got a total crater at center with Perkins knee and Wallace retiring, Doc maybe calling it quits and two free agents in their top four. That Perkins was beign shopped for a pick and Ainge sounded pessimistic about retaining Allen says a lot.

closg00 · Post #5 » by **closg00** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:35 pm

Hoopalotta wrote:T-Wolves, Warriors and Jazz fans are decidedly not pleased. Not pleased at all.

The Wolves have how many wings who can't create their own shot now? Johnson, Webster, Brewer & Lazar?

Udoh at 6 along with a fire sale?

Gordon Hayward? Dunno, but I don't like it at 9.

The Celtics are really poised to be torn down now too. It's almost official now. They've got a total crater at center with Perkins knee and Wallace retiring, Doc maybe calling it quits and two free agents in their top four. That Perkins was beign shopped for a pick and Ainge sounded pessimistic about retaining Allen says a lot.

Come-on, you know that the Jazz were going to take Aldrich, Babbitt, or Hayward

Post #6 » by **LyricalRico** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:53 pm

Why is Minny seemingly having so much trouble moving Al Jefferson? The guy I compare him to is Zach Randolph and he's been traded several times the past 3-4 seasons. And he even makes a little less than Zach does.

Post #7 » by **montestewart** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:25 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Why is Minny seemingly having so much trouble moving Al Jefferson? The guy I compare him to is Zach Randolph and he's been traded several times the past 3-4 seasons. And he even makes a little less than Zach does.

Image might have something to do with it. I think of Randolph as trouble, but I think of Jefferson as kind of soft, even though they are statistically quite similar. But more than Image, coming changes in the financial terrain might be the big culprit. Would Randolph w/ a similar contract be as easily traded right now?

Hoopalotta · Post #8 » by **Hoopalotta** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:35 pm

I think it's because they're looking for value and they're not finding it. If it were a straight dump I don't think they'd have much trouble getting it done. That said, I'm not a fan of Jefferson's game.

closg00 · Post #9 » by **closg00** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:52 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Why is Minny seemingly having so much trouble moving Al Jefferson? The guy I compare him to is Zach Randolph and he's been traded several times the past 3-4 seasons. And he even makes a little less than Zach does.

IIRC, even JaVale abused Al Jefferson, he certainly doesn't have the rep of a hard-working big man.

Post #10 » by **floppymoose** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:36 pm

Hoopalotta wrote:Udoh at 6 along with a fire sale?

What fire sale?

As for Udoh, Warriors draft got screwed back on May 18, not June 24. Warriors actually did better than I thought they would. I had figured we would have to use the 6th pick to dump Maggs. But we managed to get out of half his contract for two players who won't hurt us, all without giving up the 6th pick. So Udoh is a cherry on top.

mhd · Post #11 » by **mhd** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:04 pm

GSW did a masterful job getting rid of Maggette. If they liked Udoh more than others and felt he wouldn't be there after a trade down, more power to them.

verbal8 · Post #12 » by **verbal8** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:25 am

montestewart wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:Why is Minny seemingly having so much trouble moving Al Jefferson? The guy I compare him to is Zach Randolph and he's been traded several times the past 3-4 seasons. And he even makes a little less than Zach does.

Image might have something to do with it. I think of Randolph as trouble, but I think of Jefferson as kind of soft, even though they are statistically quite similar. But more than Image, coming changes in the financial terrain might be the big culprit. Would Randolph w/ a similar contract be as easily traded right now?

In each of those trades it was basically a dump of Randolph. The Wolves are not at that point yet with Jefferson. Right now the wolves see Jefferson as a significant assets, but other teams know that he or Love pretty much has to be dealt.

verbal8 · Post #13 » by **verbal8** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:27 am

Hoopalotta wrote:The Celtics are really poised to be torn down now too. It's almost official now. They've got a total crater at center with Perkins knee and Wallace retiring, Doc maybe calling it quits and two free agents in their top four. That Perkins was beign shopped for a pick and Ainge sounded pessimistic about retaining Allen says a lot.

It sounds like they are targeting Brad Miller. If they are successful in signing him, I think they go with the current crew for a year or two.

Hoopalotta · Post #14 » by **Hoopalotta** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:20 am

floppymoose wrote:
Hoopalotta wrote:Udoh at 6 along with a fire sale?

What fire sale?

As for Udoh, Warriors draft got screwed back on May 18, not June 24. Warriors actually did better than I thought they would. I had figured we would have to use the 6th pick to dump Maggs. But we managed to get out of half his contract for two players who won't hurt us, all without giving up the 6th pick. So Udoh is a cherry on top.

Well, I was going with earlier national media frenzy of the impending summary expulsions of Biedrins and He Hate Me. Maybe that was exaggerated, but I saw similar reactions amongst your fellow Jihad fans.

verbal8 wrote:
Hoopalotta wrote:The Celtics are really poised to be torn down now too.

It sounds like they are targeting Brad Miller. If they are successful in signing him, I think they go with the current crew for a year or two.

Yeah, the tide of battle shifts quickly. We'll see.

Post #15 » by **floppymoose** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:46 pm

You got burned by the media.

mhd · Post #16 » by **mhd** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:10 am

Per ESPN, Pierce is opting out. Boston could now have max money. If I were them, I'd go after Gay. Fits the needed young athletic wing next to Rondo.

Pierce probably goes to the Clips, which makes total sense.

Post #17 » by **nate33** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:24 am

mhd wrote:Per ESPN, Pierce is opting out. Boston could now have max money. If I were them, I'd go after Gay. Fits the needed young athletic wing next to Rondo.

Pierce probably goes to the Clips, which makes total sense.

Well, Boston has a payroll of about $41M. Add their draft pick and a few minimum salary vets and it's $43M. That's not quite enough for a Max contract, but it might be enough for Rudy Gay.

It's an interesting dilemma for them. They could either try and resign Allen and Pierce, and give it one more go. Or they could blow it up, sign Gay, and reboot around a young core of Rondo, Gay, Big Baby and Perkins. That's not really a contender, but it might be enough to regularly make the playoffs. They'd need to get lucky in the draft at some point and find a star SG.

mhd · Post #18 » by **mhd** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:34 am

Nate, what about my idea I posted on the trade board of Perkins+Sheed for Al Jefferson? Obviously a gamble, but assuming Perkins is not ready to mid season (and that is probably the most optimistic scenrio), Boston would have to consider it. Minny gets immediate cap relief, and an oppurtunity to S&T Perkins.

Hoopalotta · Post #19 » by **Hoopalotta** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:06 am

floppymoose wrote:You got burned by the media.

Yeah, and the repercussions are just horrendous; I thought I had the Pacific Division pegged.

:roll:

Hoopalotta · Post #20 » by **Hoopalotta** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:11 am

nate33 wrote:
mhd wrote:Per ESPN, Pierce is opting out. Boston could now have max money. If I were them, I'd go after Gay. Fits the needed young athletic wing next to Rondo.

Pierce probably goes to the Clips, which makes total sense.

Well, Boston has a payroll of about $41M. Add their draft pick and a few minimum salary vets and it's $43M. That's not quite enough for a Max contract, but it might be enough for Rudy Gay.

I believe that's pretty close to the max for Rudy as he's only been in the league for four years. The numbers I've seen on his max would be something like $77-79 million over five years depending on where the cap comes in next year.

I actually don't hate that situation for Boston in that they have Rondo and Gay well might far surpass his previous production and efficiency in that situation (though he is pretty well and iso scorer from what I've seen).