RealGM

I begin this post with my stated understanding that this is not the Washington Post, New York Times, or whatever. It's an internet board. I get it.

My new job has me thinking about media as it evolves. If you think about how we get our information, we are headed as far away from the Walter Cronkite model as we can, and doing so at light speed. (Don't get political, if you want to substitute someone else fine, I just mean a model where few are trusted with being accurate and correct). Instead of Cronkite and fact-checking, we have tweets that say - simultaneously - that Lebron was just seen walking into some club in NYC this second, and five minutes later, you have another tweet from another unknown dude (or unknown to me at least) that Lebron's in South Beach, meeting with his agent. Meanwhile, Lebron's in Ohio.

For my work assignments, the future of media is a policy subject we kick around almost daily and it's vexing and difficult.

Here at RealGM, a little less so. We at RealGM's Wizards board make no national policy, we impact nothing but the experiences of the users who choose to be here. So, onto the crux of my post and my question to each of you individually.

1) I deplore tonight's "Gilbert tore his ACL" incident. Here is the thread from the General Board: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1031245 and here is the thread from our board: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1031224 and the only word that comes to mind is "tripe".

2) Throughout Lebron’s drama queen’s wet dream of a circus, the various boards associated with teams that thought they were in the running were alive with estrogen-laden, hopeful, “I think he likes me…I hope he calls” breathless updates based on tweeted rumor, raw opinion masquerading as fact, and out-and-out wild-azz guesses. In short, their boards have been full of things like the Gilbert/ACL thread. It’s not a world that I’m comfortable with.

I am considering a one-man quest to unilaterally keep such tripe from the Wizards board. You come here with stuff as unreliable as the Gilbert ACL story, I’ll lock the thread and warn you. Two warnings and I’m going to start working a Wizards board ban. Doesn’t matter if you’re one of us or a visiting poster. This can be obviously seen as quite draconian. But to reiterate, the “sin” is not of the rumor – its accuracy or not, but of posting it from some unknown source (or “my sources tell me”). Come to the Wiz board only with mainstream sources, with link, if you’re trying to assert a fact (versus “I like tall PGs” type of opinion). If you don’t, you eventually get Wizards board banned for violating the section of the TOS involving keeping the board experience enjoyable, etc.

My thoughts are not RealGM policy and essentially what it does is make our board different from the rest of the boards. (Who knows, I may get kicked out as a Global for making unilateral board rules). If we do this, you – the Wizards board reader will probably miss any number of breaking stories carried first by untested, semi-known blogger/tweeters, etc. There’s a negative consequence to do this.

And I won’t do this if you tell me not to. It’s your board, my board, ours – together. Moreover, if you tell me not to do this, be aware that I’ll probably not really know when to let rumors like the Gilbert ACL thing go and when not to.

But IMO, I think we’re at our best when we have a place where we’re able to state our opinions based on fact sets which are reliable and, well, true. I haven’t enjoyed the boards during this Lebron build up and I certainly didn’t enjoy our board and the Gil/ACL thing tonight.

Anyway, long-winded post done. I will begin a practice where I lock all posts which assert a supposed factual thing – regardless of how authentic and realistic it is – if it comes unsourced or from a non-mainstream source. And said poster will be warned and then, if he continues, end up not able to post on the Wizards board only. Or I won’t. Despite the long post, don’ t think I’m married to the idea. But I do want to serve the Wizards board community well, with transparency as to my thoughts, and do so without being too heavy-handed or thoughtless.

Please drop me your thoughts.

Pine

Woohooo!! Pine is back and he's kickin ass and takin names! Yeaaaaa Bwoy!!!

I disagree, with some conviction too.

I think we're old and smart enough to figure out the potential accuracy of rumors. a skill we have collectively shown time again through reason and analysis. speculation hurts no one and can be a fun release. furthermore our "mainstream" sources are often unreliable, filled with disinformation and often filled with lazy use of language. none of these rumors hurts anyone.

as long as a rumor is labeled a rumor it's all good. who cares if we have a few oh nos once in awhile. besides which, if i happened to be friends with or connected to someone with connections inside the organization and i came across information id want to share it. id also be pretty adamant about not selling out my friend/connection by saying where it come from. reliability and accuracy is now individually and not institutionally based.

I'm still a bit uneasy about the Arenas thing because wasn't there a tweet of him being seen hobbling? I'm not saying it's true...just a little uneasy.

But I do agree with ya for the most part.

Can we have an official "Rumors and Stupid Sources thread"?

Yahoo NBA has 3 tab categories: news, blogs, and rumors. When I feel a little dirty, I click the last two tabs. The problem isn:t gossip because people have been doing that for eternity, but presenting gossip as news. Such a setup eliminates that ambiguity.

willbcocks wrote:Can we have an official "Rumors and Stupid Sources thread"?

Yahoo NBA has 3 tab categories: news, blogs, and rumors. When I feel a little dirty, I click the last two tabs. The problem isn:t gossip because people have been doing that for eternity, but presenting gossip as news. Such a setup eliminates that ambiguity.

Was gonna post the same thing.

I like the idea of the Rumors thread. Given that many of us on this board live in the DC area, lots of us are go to know someone, see someone or have some type of connection which might give rise to a "rumor" which can't be traced to a reliable source to anyone else satisfaction but there own. I agree that it can get out of hand but I think it would be a disservice to unilaterally end the practice of sharing locally obtained knowledge. It's actually one of my favorite things about this board.

I do think rumors of the type dealing with things like injuries/trades etc which are more substantial in nature need to be handled more sensitively than more run of the mill items but I do think there is a place for them on the board.

PS - welcome back Pine.

Agree that we need a "Rumors" thread. I personally look at all threads/topics here on the Wizards board as starting with some level of accuracy higher than rumor. Most threads start with a fact upon which opinions, and in some cases, suppositions are based. Sometimes, I read a new thread/topic that is based on a supposition, and when that happens, the writer usually makes it known through the course of the writing that it is based on a supposition. On the Wizards board, it is rare to see a rumor, or some writing that is without a strong enough foundation that starts a new thread/topic (what a great thing this is, IMO!!). When this rare occurrence does happen, I would like to see it either properly marked as a "rumor" or place in a ongoing "rumors" thread. My $0.02...

Pine aka.... I will not actually say your name here sometimes I feel like I love you . Anyways I believe I like your idea, but I think a better solution is the warning of put it in the rumor thread is more manageable than saying hey dont' post this warning. I like rumors and sometimes these rumors cost me a few hours of my life (as the ACL tear did), but I believe they have there place here. Yes after the Arenas suspension I took a time off from the Wizards (which means I didn't even read the board because I just couldn't, but still followed the boxscores). I also took a week off from work because I could not do it anymore and needed the time off (I started not liking my job and I have a really awesome job if you dont' take into account the workload that is put upon me). So anyways I disagree with your end result, but I believe in your issues that you want to resolve since I check here for WIZ news before anywhere else (I've actually been the person to pass it along first very pround of taht actually), but I would like to hear the rumor from the crazy sources we have available now. It would be great if we can have sources at least linked though for ANYTHING.

I'm done, but PINE I miss you man even though we only met once . Hope the family is great and just keep ROCKING.

BanndNDC wrote:I disagree, with some conviction too.

I think we're old and smart enough to figure out the potential accuracy of rumors. a skill we have collectively shown time again through reason and analysis. speculation hurts no one and can be a fun release. furthermore our "mainstream" sources are often unreliable, filled with disinformation and often filled with lazy use of language. none of these rumors hurts anyone.

as long as a rumor is labeled a rumor it's all good. who cares if we have a few oh nos once in awhile. besides which, if i happened to be friends with or connected to someone with connections inside the organization and i came across information id want to share it. id also be pretty adamant about not selling out my friend/connection by saying where it come from. reliability and accuracy is now individually and not institutionally based.

+1

I read this site regularly because I can find breaking Wizards news on it (along with excellent insight and debate). The reports are generally correct, but sometimes they're not. I'm okay with that, because like Bannd said, we're old enough and smart enough to decide for ourselves what to believe. Plus, we can do our own research to disprove (or prove) the rumor, just as happened today.

I understand the reasoning of wanting to prevent the board from becoming over-run with rumors. On the other hand a lot of the fun of the discussion board is the ability to speculate, which could be misinterpreted as rumors. I think part of the reason the board is not overrun with speculation and rumors is that it is generally confined to the Trade Thread and the Other Teams moves thread.

I think a rumor thread would be a good idea. Maybe even a news thread for updates from legit sources.

I also think it helps to think of the board posts more as mini-columns rather than as news articles based on first hand reporting.

I don't have any need or desire for a "rumors thread". However, if we do have one, I'd like it to be called something like "Unfounded baseless rumors for those who enjoy such things".

The Wizboard is one of the most level-headed, sophisticated forums I've encountered on the web. I don't think we've ever had an actual issue with spreading/running with sketchy info.

So I'm not sure a preemptive, heavy-handed policy is really called for to address a hypothetical problem. But I'm on the free speech side of things. I think the community here has shown itself to be strong enough to merit some latitude.

The mods, of course, have the power to deal with any specific situations that come up as they see fit.

Also, if this goes into effect, the mods will need to maintain an updated list of "mainstream" and "non-mainstream" sources so that we can be sure to stay on the right side of the line.

For example, if I were to assert that "LeBron is a C********r" and cite Deadspin as the source, would I get a warning?

I agree in part, but only to a degree. I'm finding that 'mainstream' sources are less reliable than they have traditionally been. Editors, fact checkers etc have begun to dissipate with dwindling budgets and circulation stats. And eyes-on reports from the block won't be found in the mainstream media. If I get a report from Brenice or whomever that Gil has been tearing up Barry Farms, I'm interested. It would take a few days for SteinBog to ferret out the rumor and get video or whatever.

That said, unsourced rumors irritate me. If you provide a link then I can track it down and judge for myself. If you provide a picture, a clip, corroborating witness reports, I'm even more happy. I'd be fine with a trashpile thread or newmedia thread to shunt unsourced rumors ready to breakout into the 'mainstream' of an actual Topic Thread. But I'm not sure I'd be willing to toss out any 'leads' that might prove productive areas of further inquiry.

This thread, stickied, would serve well as the trashpile for fact-hunting ragpickers. If it doesn't have a source or a link, lock it or drop it here. I don't mind a wise and competent mod serving as an editor for that sort of decision.

That said, I like the attitude. And am happy to welcome you home my friend.

Ruzious wrote:I don't have any need or desire for a "rumors thread". However, if we do have one, I'd like it to be called something like "Unfounded baseless rumors for those who enjoy such things".

Seconded.

BanndNDC wrote:I disagree, with some conviction too.

I think we're old and smart enough to figure out the potential accuracy of rumors. a skill we have collectively shown time again through reason and analysis. speculation hurts no one and can be a fun release. furthermore our "mainstream" sources are often unreliable, filled with disinformation and often filled with lazy use of language. none of these rumors hurts anyone.

as long as a rumor is labeled a rumor it's all good. who cares if we have a few oh nos once in awhile. besides which, if i happened to be friends with or connected to someone with connections inside the organization and i came across information id want to share it. id also be pretty adamant about not selling out my friend/connection by saying where it come from. reliability and accuracy is now individually and not institutionally based.

+1

BanndNDC said it better than I could. The upside of the emergence of the "new media" is that we all have become much better at viewing "news" with more skepticism. Heck, anything I read in the NY Times or at Fox News I consider a "rumor" until I can get some corroborating stories from other outlets (preferably ones with the opposite political bias).

BigA wrote:The Wizboard is one of the most level-headed, sophisticated forums I've encountered on the web. I don't think we've ever had an actual issue with spreading/running with sketchy info.

So I'm not sure a preemptive, heavy-handed policy is really called for to address a hypothetical problem. But I'm on the free speech side of things. I think the community here has shown itself to be strong enough to merit some latitude.

The mods, of course, have the power to deal with any specific situations that come up as they see fit.

Big A, I appreciate the way you've put this. I didn't post yesterday because I might have launched a Dan Gilbert-like, emotionally-charged response. I'm still a bit emotional about this. Here's the best I've got today:

pineapplehead, it's so nice of you to think for the little people who don't know how to express themselves. I know that it's just imperative to not have any baseless gossip spread on the Wizards Board.

Censor away. Pontificate. Let folks know who's the man, pine.

In all seriousness, pine, I think you're trying to change things a bit fast for a guy who's been probably busy doing great things in the real world. However, this ain't that serious, man. Chill, dude. I don't speak for the board, though. Just myself. I don't appreciate the way you came back on the scene. About as subtle as a tsunami, pine.

BanndNDC wrote:I disagree, with some conviction too.

I think we're old and smart enough to figure out the potential accuracy of rumors. a skill we have collectively shown time again through reason and analysis. speculation hurts no one and can be a fun release. furthermore our "mainstream" sources are often unreliable, filled with disinformation and often filled with lazy use of language. none of these rumors hurts anyone.

as long as a rumor is labeled a rumor it's all good. who cares if we have a few oh nos once in awhile. besides which, if i happened to be friends with or connected to someone with connections inside the organization and i came across information id want to share it. id also be pretty adamant about not selling out my friend/connection by saying where it come from. reliability and accuracy is now individually and not institutionally based.

+abunch

Welcome back Pine. I want to become a mod so I can make rules based work related stuff...or not. I use this place as an escape from work. Yea, I know that wasn't exactly your point but it kind of hit me that way.

If I want only mainstream sourses I'll go to mainstream sources. I pay for ESPN Insider and use some other tools to get news from such sources. Well, after last nights Tijuana donkey show I'm giving ESPN the benefit of the doubt. I come here for the opinions of some I greatly respect (Nate, CCJ, DAT and others). I come here for Doc because...well because it's the only place I know where to find Doc and yea, I gotta major man crush on the dude (and I'm not sure but it might be totally homo). I come here for Pine because it makes me feel like I'm a better person for it. I come here when I'm drunk because I find it kind of fun to come by a day or two later and come across some idiotic post I made and go "oh man...what the **** was I thinking?" I'd probably come here for my porn if they had it.

And I come by here for rumor and innuendo. I like it. I want it. I need it.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

BigA wrote:The Wizboard is one of the most level-headed, sophisticated forums I've encountered on the web. I don't think we've ever had an actual issue with spreading/running with sketchy info.

So I'm not sure a preemptive, heavy-handed policy is really called for to address a hypothetical problem. But I'm on the free speech side of things. I think the community here has shown itself to be strong enough to merit some latitude.

The mods, of course, have the power to deal with any specific situations that come up as they see fit.

Big A, I appreciate the way you've put this. I didn't post yesterday because I might have launched a Dan Gilbert-like, emotionally-charged response. I'm still a bit emotional about this. Here's the best I've got today:

pineapplehead, it's so nice of you to think for the little people who don't know how to express themselves. I know that it's just imperative to not have any baseless gossip spread on the Wizards Board.

Censor away. Pontificate. Let folks know who's the man, pine

Hey CCJ, can I quote you over in the Politics thread re; Fairness Doctrine, Internet regulation, Campaign Finance laws, etc.? I happen to agree completely in the sense that the cure for "bad" speech is not less speech, but more speech. Allow the marketplace of ideas to sort it out and let people think for themselves. I just find it ironic that some of those who would be the first to protest a library using an internet filter to keep child porn off of the computers in the children's section would not only accept but promote an idea such as the Fairness Doctrine, "for the greater good."

Now - that being said, I do understand some of pine's motivation here. I took his post to be more in the spirit of "C'mon guys, we're better than that. We don't need to lower ourselves with the rest of the gutter-dwellers and engage in rumor-mongering." I have no problem with that statement, provided it does not actually move into censorship, banning, etc. Again, the best remedy is more speech. Call out the rumor-mongers and haters. Expose them for spreading lies and encouraging the worst elements of message boards. Mock them, even. I heartily endorse that approach.

Ruzious wrote:I don't have any need or desire for a "rumors thread". However, if we do have one, I'd like it to be called something like "Unfounded baseless rumors for those who enjoy such things".

and want to read other things good too