Predict the Eastern Conference Standings

[doclinkin]

I have hopes for McGee too. I just disagree with your original assertion that he was further along in his second year than Blatche. Blatche showed more in-game effectiveness at a younger age than McGee.

I think Blatche has a higher b-ball IQ and better innate basketball skills. McGee is blessed with better physical traits and athleticism. McGee has a higher ceiling than Blatche but a lower floor. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that Blatche ultimately pans out to be a better player, but that doesn't mean I don't think McGee can be good.

Innate or not, I think Blatche has less ego and a greater capacity to accept criticism. Even as a raw rook he's always said the right things following coaching critique or peer review. Hasn't always immediately applied those lessons, but at least he understood their point of view.

JaVale by contrast has been told all his life that some day he will revolutionize the position of center, that he will be god+Pam McGee's gift to the NBA. Together they shopped around for prep schools all over the nation that would let him play his outside game -- first in Carolina I think? Then in Michigan. Pam played in Italy, has strongest ties to Sacramento, could have played longer in Europe and earned decent money, in worse places, but they decided to move to highschool in frickin' cold ass Michigan.

They accepted Nevada because the coach promised him a system that featured that 'evolutionary' role (see Nick Fazekas). Somehow this would provide his best entree' to the NBA. I think Pam was trying to protect her boy a little bit from the nasty, from the ugly work done under the iron. He was a skinny kid, artistic, humorous, without alot of dog in him. She decided early on, even if he never filled out, he'd have some skills that might let him find a role. And protected him from the possibility, while telling him his whole life how good he'll be -- how much better he's gonna be than everyone else.

So what does it matter what the coaches say? He's gonna do 'his thing', even if he's playing with all-stars and veterans and Koach K, they don't know, they'll find out eventually what an evolutionary center does. Then the world will bow down. I don't think it hurts his feelings all that much to fall short, because when it comes down to it, his momma loves him and he's got destiny on his side.

Pop psych. But that's my read.

[nate33]

^
Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought CCJ was saying "No, it isn't encouraging," based on what followed.

Hmmm. Okay. Then my apologies to CCJ for being unnecessarily defensive.

[doclinkin]

Blatche by contrast has made constant improvements to his game, little by little. And when publicly reamed out, okay he'll stand his ground, but having said his piece, often ultimately supports the position of the authority figure and says it's his job to adjust. Whether Flip, Jamison, whomever.

Blatche's lesser ego means I think he blends better with a team, looking for support roles where he can defer, pass, etc. and let others star. It also means he lacks a bit of the mean streak that would ideally drive him to all-star status. But I've always seen that he doesn't do immaturity all that well (clearly, getting shot and busted). My read on him is that he will be better as a grown-ass man, not trying to play the pranks or keep pace with knuckleheaded youngsters. (Contrast with Gil who does it superlatively well, gets away with outrageousness to the point where he can absolutely test the limits of authority time and again because, well, that's just Gil). Dray is one of those cats that will be improved immensely by marriage and kids. No time for nonsense. Strange to say that ultimately a veteran leadership role will suit Dray well.

This is the one issue where I aver to internal doubts on whether Gil ultimately is good or bad for the team. Gil is an imp. A natural trickster type. The role of the jester is to subvert power and challenge tyranny. Gil works best as an unaccountable X-factor on a strong team with leadership he respects. Gil as elder statesman is a tough fit, he grows weary in the role, can't help but thumb his nose at authority. Or wish to. And charismatic as he is, young players like Nick will tend to absorb the impish aspect.

A guy like Blatche will defer to leaders, veterans, until there's a vacuum at the position, then when that leadership is needed, will fill the team role there too. But if Gil is your leader, your alpha veteran, well, your squad might always be a threat to knock off higher ranked teams, but doesn't accept frontrunner status all that well. Underdog superhero is the role Gilbert sees for himself, not stable solid sober careful craftsman.

John Wall on the other hand. If their ages were reversed, their temperament would be an ideal fit.

That said. Gilbert is my guy. I'd go out swinging for that cat. He makes me genuinely happy to watch basketball when he's playing well, and while it is rare for the jester to become Lancelot or whatnot, with this 'kid' I never say impossible. He just needs to pick bigger badder authorities to piss off, outside of his own team. Make Pete Vescey and all the naysayers and doubters choke to near-fatality on their words. Knock off a team like the Meami trio, already celebrating their championships. Look fates in the eye and tell 'em eff you. You try to crush me? Never happen. I'm cheating death with immortality. Win all comeback awards, tell 'em where to stick they 'never's and walking out this game a champion when all is said and done. Can't take that away from me.

That's my hope for Gil. They say he can't play a secondary role, needs the spotlight etc. I say crap. He wants to show the world they're wrong about him, just needed the spotlight to earn their respect, but ain't looking for friends in the media. The people's champ. He's fine with low-profile in the mainstream, so long as he has the respect of fans and kids and hardworking folks like his dad, his peers, the Barry Farms crowd. If know-nothing professional commentators want to 'black hat' him as a villain and say what he never can do, he's got a life history that shows he'll survive every never you heap on him.

And come out stronger for it.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It's -1.7 per 21 minutes, so it's actually more like -3.9 points per 48. That's an improvement over the -5.1 he posted over the entire season, but it's not exactly encouraging to see that he makes a terrible team even worse.

No, it isn't nate.

Yes, it is CCJ. 82games.com posts their on/off differential on a per 48 basis. With the data Hoopalotta posted, the way to interpret it and remain consistent with 82games.com scoring method is to state that McGee's on/off differential was -3.9 during the last 10 games.

Maybe I could have typed "No, it isn't encouraging, nate". I was actually agreeing with your very enlightening point on McGee.

I can see how you're read that as a "No it isn't" but I meant it as a" No, it isn't"

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

FWIW Andray Blatche at age 21-22 (same age McGee was this past season) made the 2007-2008 Wizards -9.9 points worse per 48 minutes.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07WAS10D.HTM

Noted is that Andray was replacing Haywood or Jamison and that was a good Wizard team. The comparison is that folks had serious doubts about Blatche back then, as many do about Javale right now. At this time I choose not to ignore the numbers about Javale's impact on the team. (Ruz, that's for you, I'm going against stats here.) I think the light's going to come on for McGee and that he's going to get way better at both ends this season.

I have to see the positives for Gil, Yi, and McGee due to Wall's presence on this team. I have to see a perfect storm of good things happening in order to stick with my 49-win, outrageously optimistic, prediction.

Blatche is a very solid player. So, too, will be Javale McGee in time.

I have hopes for McGee too. I just disagree with your original assertion that he was further along in his second year than Blatche. Blatche showed more in-game effectiveness at a younger age than McGee.

I think Blatche has a higher b-ball IQ and better innate basketball skills. McGee is blessed with better physical traits and athleticism. McGee has a higher ceiling than Blatche but a lower floor. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that Blatche ultimately pans out to be a better player, but that doesn't mean I don't think McGee can be good.

nate, I can't disagree with any of this. Blatche is eventually going to get the triple double game that he almost got in April. He has an extremely high basketball IQ. I side with the great basketball player over the great athlete almost all the time. The only thing about the great athlete is that occasionally with bigs, those guys put it together late. McGee should be in the 18-19 PER rate this season. He's never going to be as skilled or as basketball savvy as Blatche, but I think once he develops an inside-out game his offense is going to be off the chart good.

I'd like to see McGee have a face up shot at 10-12 feet, and also use the hook shot more. He's already got running and dunking down as few others.

On defense, Javale needs to learn not to take the fakes and how to position himself and to occasionally flop when big guys play the big boy game and attack his body. McGee needs to be in position and he needs to know when to fall down against some players. I'm saying he needs to learn some tricks on defense. How to flop, how to hold, and he really needs to scout opponent tendencies. Somebody should be forcing him to watch a lot of video for how he has been exploited defensively with the emphasis on improvement.

The other improvement is definitely going to come as McGee naturally fills out. I think he's going to gain 10-15 pounds over the next could seasons.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

^
Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought CCJ was saying "No, it isn't encouraging," based on what followed.

You read it right, monte.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

^
Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought CCJ was saying "No, it isn't encouraging," based on what followed.

Hmmm. Okay. Then my apologies to CCJ for being unnecessarily defensive.

I thought I was touchy.... I was thinking "Dang, man, I can't even agree without pissing somebody off. That's like the story of my marriage. "

But unlike anything I heard in my latest failed marriage, I actually got an apology. So that's what somebody admitting a mistake is like ... Wow, nice.











(PS -- I'm doing fine. I feel like a POW that's been set free!"

As far as my joking goes, you've got to be whole and balanced and choose wisely or marriage will fail every time. Mine was over 5 years ago but I just hung in there for the kids. The fantastic news is that I have reconnected with a few female friends and almost all of them are more educated, better looking than this Mrs CCJ. Facebook is the bomb, man. You don't have to date or compromise yourself but you can definitely connect.

My biggest victory has been spiritually. God is really good. Great things are happening in my life. I wish my soon to be ex nothing but the best. And I do thank GOD for setting me free.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Innate or not, I think Blatche has less ego and a greater capacity to accept criticism. Even as a raw rook he's always said the right things following coaching critique or peer review. Hasn't always immediately applied those lessons, but at least he understood their point of view.

JaVale by contrast has been told all his life that some day he will revolutionize the position of center, that he will be god+Pam McGee's gift to the NBA. Together they shopped around for prep schools all over the nation that would let him play his outside game -- first in Carolina I think? Then in Michigan. Pam played in Italy, has strongest ties to Sacramento, could have played longer in Europe and earned decent money, in worse places, but they decided to move to highschool in frickin' cold ass Michigan.

They accepted Nevada because the coach promised him a system that featured that 'evolutionary' role (see Nick Fazekas). Somehow this would provide his best entree' to the NBA. I think Pam was trying to protect her boy a little bit from the nasty, from the ugly work done under the iron. He was a skinny kid, artistic, humorous, without alot of dog in him. She decided early on, even if he never filled out, he'd have some skills that might let him find a role. And protected him from the possibility, while telling him his whole life how good he'll be -- how much better he's gonna be than everyone else.

So what does it matter what the coaches say? He's gonna do 'his thing', even if he's playing with all-stars and veterans and Koach K, they don't know, they'll find out eventually what an evolutionary center does. Then the world will bow down. I don't think it hurts his feelings all that much to fall short, because when it comes down to it, his momma loves him and he's got destiny on his side.

Pop psych. But that's my read.

Winters in Flint, MI, are cold as a mother, doc. I spent a couple there in my youth. Never will forget the time the car my friends and I went to a party in broke down and we had to walk. Blowing, grainy snow whipping in my face. Didn't have a proper coat on, cuz all CCJ was doing at parties back in those days was finding a girl and grinding, if you know what I mean. Oh, man, that night was something pushing the car and walking around, no coat, with wind chills way below zero ... I thought I was going to die that night. It was COLD.

Oh, back on topic ... Pam did all that for Javale? Kid works hard but has been given a sense of entitilement, perhaps? If not so much that, this explains his aversion to interior play. Pam trying to protect her boy? That would explain a few things

Check this out, his mom used to fight her twin sister. From the Sports Ilustrated Vault, an excerpt from 1982 article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

From the moment Real People began taping a segment on the McGees in the spring of 1981—it hasn't run yet—field producer Danny Gomez knew he had a hit, literally. While shooting in the twins' dorm room, Gomez persuaded them to pull out the two pairs of five-ounce boxing gloves Pam had brought from Flint to use in settling arguments or just working out frustration. "They swung hard and they swung for the face," says Gomez. "Any one of those punches would have put me down."

"Mom said that when we left home there'd be nobody to referee," Pam says. "So I went to the store and picked the gloves up." Says her sister, "Pam fights to kill."

Really good read. Pam threw the shot in HS. Javale, I think I'm hot for your mom. Tall girls like short guys (in private) once they get to know them ...

Back to Javale: doc, it could be that his mom was so tough but she's just the opposite as a parent. Very protective of her little boy. Didn't want him to have it rough like she did coming up. I dunno... One thing that IS apparent is the woman really loves her son.

Also, I think Javale's going to eventually fill out and get much stronger.

[Dat2U]

For what it's worth, I still have serious doubts about Blatche, so I have trouble using him as the positive example for how Mcgee could progress. He isn't as big a question mark as Mcgee, but I have seen nothing to convince me that:

-He will play team defense
-He will play hard and not sulk if he has to defer to others
-He has an attitude that can help create, or at least not obstruct the creation of, a winning culture.

I believe Blatche sulked last year when Jamison returned from injury and his minutes got slashed even though he played well to start the year. That's not the case this year, Blatche is going to get as many minutes he can handle. Personally, I don't think shots or being a #1 option is as big a deal for him as getting playing time is.

[JonathanJoseph]

Looks like Kirk Hinrich is in the "we should go to the playoffs" camp:

"I think we're definitely talented enough that we can make the playoffs. Once I get there and meet the guys and get into the system I'll have a better idea, but I definitely think we've got a lot of talent...I know we're going to have a very good backcourt and our bigs are very talented.''

The change of scenery has inspired Hinrich to work even harder than usual this summer.
"I've always been motivated, but I've got more of an edge this year,'' he said. "I've got a completely fresh start with a new team and I'm ready to go.''

Also, he commented on Gil:

"I know Gilbert, I've played against him a lot, I've talked to him,'' said Hinrich. "I think he's ready to put everything that happened to him last year behind him and play basketball.''

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/sports/columnists/article_321f319d-5762-5e50-bffb-4b20a4403d55.html

[hands11]

Innate or not, I think Blatche has less ego and a greater capacity to accept criticism. Even as a raw rook he's always said the right things following coaching critique or peer review. Hasn't always immediately applied those lessons, but at least he understood their point of view.

JaVale by contrast has been told all his life that some day he will revolutionize the position of center, that he will be god+Pam McGee's gift to the NBA. Together they shopped around for prep schools all over the nation that would let him play his outside game -- first in Carolina I think? Then in Michigan. Pam played in Italy, has strongest ties to Sacramento, could have played longer in Europe and earned decent money, in worse places, but they decided to move to highschool in frickin' cold ass Michigan.

They accepted Nevada because the coach promised him a system that featured that 'evolutionary' role (see Nick Fazekas). Somehow this would provide his best entree' to the NBA. I think Pam was trying to protect her boy a little bit from the nasty, from the ugly work done under the iron. He was a skinny kid, artistic, humorous, without alot of dog in him. She decided early on, even if he never filled out, he'd have some skills that might let him find a role. And protected him from the possibility, while telling him his whole life how good he'll be -- how much better he's gonna be than everyone else.

So what does it matter what the coaches say? He's gonna do 'his thing', even if he's playing with all-stars and veterans and Koach K, they don't know, they'll find out eventually what an evolutionary center does. Then the world will bow down. I don't think it hurts his feelings all that much to fall short, because when it comes down to it, his momma loves him and he's got destiny on his side.

Pop psych. But that's my read.

Winters in Flint, MI, are cold as a mother, doc. I spent a couple there in my youth. Never will forget the time the car my friends and I went to a party in broke down and we had to walk. Blowing, grainy snow whipping in my face. Didn't have a proper coat on, cuz all CCJ was doing at parties back in those days was finding a girl and grinding, if you know what I mean. Oh, man, that night was something pushing the car and walking around, no coat, with wind chills way below zero ... I thought I was going to die that night. It was COLD.

Oh, back on topic ... Pam did all that for Javale? Kid works hard but has been given a sense of entitilement, perhaps? If not so much that, this explains his aversion to interior play. Pam trying to protect her boy? That would explain a few things

Check this out, his mom used to fight her twin sister. From the Sports Ilustrated Vault, an excerpt from 1982 article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

From the moment Real People began taping a segment on the McGees in the spring of 1981—it hasn't run yet—field producer Danny Gomez knew he had a hit, literally. While shooting in the twins' dorm room, Gomez persuaded them to pull out the two pairs of five-ounce boxing gloves Pam had brought from Flint to use in settling arguments or just working out frustration. "They swung hard and they swung for the face," says Gomez. "Any one of those punches would have put me down."

"Mom said that when we left home there'd be nobody to referee," Pam says. "So I went to the store and picked the gloves up." Says her sister, "Pam fights to kill."

Really good read. Pam threw the shot in HS. Javale, I think I'm hot for your mom. Tall girls like short guys (in private) once they get to know them ...

Back to Javale: doc, it could be that his mom was so tough but she's just the opposite as a parent. Very protective of her little boy. Didn't want him to have it rough like she did coming up. I dunno... One thing that IS apparent is the woman really loves her son.

Also, I think Javale's going to eventually fill out and get much stronger.

Oh yeah. McGee needs to break away from being under moms wing. I think that is pretty clear. Mom was dominate. She has had the lime light and he has grown up in her shadow. But I think McGee will grow to be his own man. I think he has it in him to do it. I think he has the drive to be really good but it's a process.

[closg00]

BR likes our starting lineup.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4330 ... rs#page/13

[closg00]

Discussion on the GB about the Wiz, very interesting read the opinions of outsiders.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1053032&start=0

[closg00]

With most of the big name free agents having decided on their new teams, I think we can make a pretty good guess as to how the East Conference will play out. My picks:

Tier 1
1. Orlando (still the most complete team)
2. Miami (some growing pains and depth problems but will gel in the 2nd half)

Tier 2
3. Chicago (Boozer plugs a huge hole. Have the cap room to add a SG.)
4. Milwaukee (made some nice free agent acquisitions to shore up a pretty good team)
5. Atlanta (Still pretty young. Still pretty good. No major changes.)
6. Boston (They were mediocre in the regular season last year. JO < Perkins.)

Tier 3
7. Charlotte (Not as good as the 6 teams above, but better than everyone else.)

Tier 4
8. Washington (Wall + Arenas + improving young front court)
9. Philadelphia (No EJ means more wins. Turner will be a disappointment though.)
10. New York (Kinda hard to predict until we know who else they grab.)
11. Indiana (Too many expiring contracts. Lack of cohesion.)

Tier 5
12. Detroit (Donut team. No defense or rebounding in the middle.)
13. New Jersey (Worst record in the league last year. Favors is too raw to help.)
14. Toronto (No #1 option on offense and terrible D)
15. Cleveland (There isn't one two-way player on the team.)

The Melo trade to the Nets has not been finalized, but assuming they will not be giving-up a key player, get ready to move New Jersey up to Tier 3 or 4 thus making the race for 7/8 a really tight one.

[hands11]

With the season about the start a wanted to bump this for folks.

[LyricalRico]

^ Thanks for the bump. I'm getting in at the wire.

1. Orlando - deepest team in the East (60+ wins)
2. Boston - most complete team in the East, will pace themselves (59 wins)
3. Miami - lacks inside presence, will get every team's best every night (55 wins)
4. Atlanta - stagnant and will lose in the first round (49 wins)
5. Milwaukee - contingent on Bogut's health (47 wins)
6. Chicago - slow start because of Boozer's injury (45 wins)
7. Charlotte - the forgotten team in the East (41 wins)
8. New York - the best of the rest (39 wins)

9. Detroit - lacks inside scoring (36 wins)
10. Indiana - not enough around Granger (35 wins)
11. Washington - too young (33 wins)
12. Philadelphia - poorly constructed roster (30 wins)
13. Cleveland - will compete but won't score enough points (27 wins)
14. Toronto - very soft and no go-to guy (25 wins)
15. New Jersey - injuries strike again, changes if they get Melo (20 wins)

(EDIT: Made some changes to the bottom 7 to reflect my new Wiz prediction.)

[hands11]

Not an east thing but Houston is looking good against LA

I think they could make some noise with Yo back and Miller as the smaller center.

That is versatile.

[closg00]

Until Gilbert and Howard join us, this is where I would put us.

1. Boston
2. Orlando
3. Miami
4. Chicago
5. Milwaukee
6. Atlanta
7. Charlotte
8. New York, New Jersey, Indiana
9. Detroit
10. Cleveland
11. Washington
12. Toronto
13. Philadelphia

[Dat2U]

It's too early to say but I still think Cleveland is the worst team in conference. Yes, they had a fluky win against Boston but if that team wins 20 games, then Byron Scott should go down as the greatest coach of all time. They have no play makers on that roster whatsoever. No one who can breakdown the D and get to the cup. There's just a severe lack of talent there.

[closg00]

Article sizinging-up which team might be taking that 8th slot.

(9) Washington Wizards (4-7)
The optimist sees a team shooting at a league-average rate and wonders if the Wiz might be able to leap a bunch of these other teams if they can just figure out how to stop turning the ball over and get to the foul line once in a while. John Wall’s continued growth should help in both of those areas, right? And JaVale McGee will get better, and the team will figure out how to use Gilbert Arenas, and Yi Jianlian might finally pan out, and Andray Blatche is a beast in 30 games per season. And so on.

But you see this team do things on defense every night that would shame even last season’s Raptors. There is just too much chaos here, too much youth and too many guys who alternate too often between caring about the team and caring about themselves.

The Wizards might very well finish ahead of some teams on this list. They clearly have a brighter future than many of them. But no team would surprise me more by making the playoffs.

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2010/11 ... off-spots/