If Gil joined the Wiz with a better HC. Breakout Year

[hands11]

I was just reading up on the Wall reviews from the GS SL game and couldn't help but think of Gil.

I remember when Gil first got here and he was not that efficient. He had the green light to work on his offense and it grow. It took a little time but he grew offensively to be dangerous. They seem to be giving Wall that same green light. Attack attack. I But what stood out in hearing of his game was " but he was playing pesky D with whole night " Like Gil, he took some risks for steals that lead to easy points but he also got into the other players consistently, something Gil didn't do.

Wall really does remind me a Gil in a lot of ways. Similar stories. Not the same but similar. But Wall was the #1 probably in large part because he also played D while Gil was agent zero, not getting picked as high as he thought he should have and slotted to the PG/SG. Wall is a PG looking to add offense. Gil was more of SG trying to add PG skills/mentality.

So I stop to think of what Gil could have been if Gil came to a Wiz team with this coaching staff instead of EFJ and his flunkies that never lead and never made Gil accountable for being a complete offensive and defensive rounded basketball player. They paid the lips service, but Gil was always bigger than EFJ who had no control over the situation. And what if he was slotted to SG from the beginning.

Wall is walking into a much better situation. With Flip and Sam coming back for year two together and us getting a quality owner, the organization is a lot stronger than what Gil walked into.

I'm still going to hold out hope that Gil stays and buys into the program and rounds out his game. He can still be a great player. He just needs to show he got his head straight and add a defensive element to he game. I can still see a scenario where Gil is a top star on this team. If he plays his cards right, he can be bigger than Wall this year and make the All Star Team. And if this happens, I think it will be good for the team as a whole and Wall. It will give JW a little breathing room to progress.

This can be an exciting team to watch this year. McGee is a little stronger. Wall and Gil to McGee for easy points will get McGees head in the game. Once that happens, he plays a lot better. Then you have Dray. If he picks up where he left off then we have a solid one two punch in Gil and Dray with Wall driving and dishing it around to keep the whole thing going.

In an odd way, adding Wall could be the best thing for Gil. It may remind him of what he was and what he needs to focus on. I think the adjustment Gil needs to make can return result quicker than what Wall has to develop. Gil already has the handles, court vision, offense and experience. He just needs to add maturity and D.

So while Wall is grabbing all the headlines, once we start the regular season, I can easily see Gil being the story of the year along with Dray. If everything works out, this could be a very interesting season. Biggest whole I see is a reliable center. Should be interesting to see what they do to finalize the roster.

As for Miami. Gil is the one who would get Wade in foul trouble not Wall. Dray can be a challenge for Bosh with his length and inside/outside game. That leaves someone to pester LaDouche. You have to hope that will be Booker. They are more established with their players but we just might be able to line up something up for them. Just depends on what else both team add.

Should be an interesting year.

[cdouglas]

I have 2 simple questions here.

1) Does anyone on this board think Wall looks like Gilbert? He looks like he would be his younger bro.

2) Can Young really stop Wade?

[rockymac52]

So I stop to think of what Gil could have been if Gil came to a Wiz team with this coaching staff instead of EFJ and his flunkies that never lead and never made Gil accountable for being a complete offensive and defensive rounded basketball player. They paid the lips service, but Gil was always bigger than EFJ who had no control over the situation. And what if he was slotted to SG from the beginning.

Wall is walking into a much better situation. With Flip and Sam coming back for year two together and us getting a quality owner, the organization is a lot stronger than what Gil walked into.

I'm still going to hold out hope that Gil stays and buys into the program and rounds out his game. He can still be a great player. He just needs to show he got his head straight and add a defensive element to he game. I can still see a scenario where Gil is a top star on this team. If he plays his cards right, he can be bigger than Wall this year and make the All Star Team. And if this happens, I think it will be good for the team as a whole and Wall. It will give JW a little breathing room to progress.

This can be an exciting team to watch this year. McGee is a little stronger. Wall and Gil to McGee for easy points will get McGees head in the game. Once that happens, he plays a lot better. Then you have Dray. If he picks up where he left off then we have a solid one two punch in Gil and Dray with Wall driving and dishing it around to keep the whole thing going.

In an odd way, adding Wall could be the best thing for Gil. It may remind him of what he was and what he needs to focus on. I think the adjustment Gil needs to make can return result quicker than what Wall has to develop. Gil already has the handles, court vision, offense and experience. He just needs to add maturity and D.

So while Wall is grabbing all the headlines, once we start the regular season, I can easily see Gil being the story of the year along with Dray. If everything works out, this could be a very interesting season. Biggest whole I see is a reliable center. Should be interesting to see what they do to finalize the roster.

As for Miami. Gil is the one who would get Wade in foul trouble not Wall. Dray can be a challenge for Bosh with his length and inside/outside game. That leaves someone to pester LaDouche. You have to hope that will be Booker. They are more established with their players but we just might be able to line up something up for them. Just depends on what else both team add.

Should be an interesting year.

I agree with a lot of the things you said, but we've been saying that "Gil already has the handles, court vision, offense and experience, he just needs to add maturity and D" for 5+ years it feels like. As critical fans, it's easy to point out a player's skills and weaknesses. It's easy for us to say "Gil just needs to be committed to playing defense and leadership/maturity." If he can run as fast as he can and shoot as well as he can and dribble, etc. etc. then why can't he just put forth some effort and play D, right? It sounds easy enough, but it's probably a lot harder than we realize. I agree that defense is a lot more effort based than offense, and is much easier to learn, and thus, there's no reason why Gil can't improve on D, but he's been in the league long enough for history to tell us he's not going to change. We all know how Gil operates with his vendettas and need to prove everyone wrong, so it's easy to buy into a success story where he turns it all around by playing 2nd fiddle to Wall and recommitting himself to defense and winning games as a team. The problem is, the odds are really against him.

It's hard for us, because we've become so accustomed to hearing the ongoings of Gil's everyday life, and now we rarely hear anything from him. His injuries and gun incident obviously tarnished his image, and as best I can tell, he's too scared to say anything to the public. In some regards, this might be in his best interest. He should be focusing on basketball and not the off the court antics, and he doesn't need to get himself into trouble, but come on, we know Gil was always a good guy. It kills me to not know what he's up to. I want to hear about his new offseason workout plan. I want to know how many shots he's putting up a day. I want to hear about who he's training with and how he's really focusing on improving his defense this offseason. When we hear nothing, it's easy to assume he's doing nothing, other than the typical conditioning and practicing. But for all we know, he's working his ass off to prove us all wrong once again. I want to believe in him, but I just want to hear some encouraging words from himself or the coaching staff or front office. I get that Gil wants to take some personal time and fix up his image, and that he may be better off keeping a low profile until he comes back to the NBA and starts doing work on the court again, but as a fan, it's just frustrating. It's all my impatience, and I know he's working hard and it will show when the season rolls around, but yeah, it's just frustrating.

I hear ya though, EFJ was not good for Gil. He helped him become the dynamite offensive player we've come to love, but he really didn't help with Gil's lack of effort on D. I hope Gil can learn a thing or two from Wall or somebody else within the organization. I feel bad for Gil after this last year, and I hope he can forgive the Wizards organization and everybody who abandoned him after the gun incident. EG can say positive things about Gil all he wants now, but the fact of the matter is, the team abandoned him when he needed them most, and for a guy like Gil, that's gotta hurt. I truly feel for the man, and I sincerely hope that he turns it around.

[Wizards2Lottery]

He would surely be a better defender.

[Spence]

How many coaches has Gil had? Pretty sure he had a coach at Golden State before he came to D.C. Doesn't Gil become responsible for things sooner or later? He's 28, correct? Are we going to be hearing 10 years from now how he could have been one of the all time greats if it wasn't for Eddie Jordan? If Gil wanted to be an adult, he would be. If Gil wanted to play defense, he would do so.

There is a strange dichotomy at work when it comes to Gilbert Arenas. It goes something like this:

Gil should do something...
Coach unable to make Gil do that something...
Therefore the coach is incompetent and at fault...
And Gil is great.

I wish I had a small army of people following me around and using that sort of logic to explain every mistake I've ever made.

Then again, maybe that's not such a good thing after all.

[Severn Hoos]

How many coaches has Gil had? Pretty sure he had a coach at Golden State before he came to D.C. Doesn't Gil become responsible for things sooner or later? He's 28, correct? Are we going to be hearing 10 years from now how he could have been one of the all time greats if it wasn't for Eddie Jordan? If Gil wanted to be an adult, he would be. If Gil wanted to play defense, he would do so.

There is a strange dichotomy at work when it comes to Gilbert Arenas. It goes something like this:

Gil should do something...
Coach unable to make Gil do that something...
Therefore the coach is incompetent and at fault...
And Gil is great.

I wish I had a small army of people following me around and using that sort of logic to explain every mistake I've ever made.

Then again, maybe that's not such a good thing after all.

LeBron says hi. And no, you can't have his army.

[Spence]

LeBron says hi. And no, you can't have his army.

Fortunately for pro athletes, there are plenty of those armies around.

[hands11]

For me, I don't think the fans abandoned Gil as much as Gil abandoned the fans. Most fans pulled for Gil and his antics, while other like me thought he wouldn't be good for the team in total acting the way he was for a while. All the shoot first PG, predicting 50 instead of a win in the playoffs, blogging, new names, and I'm not a leader even though I'm the face and a max player, etc. It wasn't about team, it was about Gil.

But when you are the face and max player and your dumping in peoples shoes and bringing guns into the locker room or whatever else, that is not living up to your obligation to your agreement and it's setting a poor example to your younger teammates. That is where Gil abandoned us the fans and his teammates.

As for people making excusing for him, well.... I think people supported him to much before but know, I like his changes a lot more. Sure he had coaches and he could have always done the right thing on his own but reality is, most people have shortcoming and need some guidance to be their best. Gils shortcoming were clear and where not helped by EFJ and his farce of a defense.

It's is easy to see this owner and coaching staff is much better than what Gil had.
It's also easy to see Gil had a huge wake up call with what he just went through. The knee was one thing, but being suspended following that is totally different. And now at 28 and having all the shine taken from him, well, you have to believe he will be focused and listen a lot more.

No excuses. Just pointing out how things are different and wondering how they would have been different if he had what Wall is walking into.

I like that they are keeping Gil under the radar for now. There is plenty of time between now and the session starting. Right now it's about Wall and the summer league players. Gil needs to work his way back into the spotlight both physically and mentally. That is best done under the radar. His day will come. For me, I'm pulling for him again. I like his chances of turning it around.

And if he does, he is way more valuable to us as a player or a trade asset.

[Kanyewest]

I was thinking the other day, what if a healthy Gilbert had better teammates? The best offensive low post option that he's had is Antawn Jamison, who history will judge as inconsistent when it matters in the postseason. The 06-08 Caron Butler was nice but somewhere became not as aggressive to attack the basket by the time 09-10 rolled around. Didn't he have a broken thumb in the 06 series against the Cavs?

Larry Hughes looked like an all star playing alongside Gilbert but we can agree he's just a solid piece. What would we think of Gilbert if he had a front line of Gasol and Bynum? The shooting guards since Larry Hughes have been Jarvis Hayes, Jared Jeffries, and DeShawn Stevenson.

Then again this isn't 2007 anymore, it's 2010 and beyond. Gilbert will have to prove himself again or only Wizards fan will really acknowledge that he was at one time a really REALLY good player.

[AceDegenerate]

I was thinking the other day, what if a healthy Gilbert had better teammates? The best offensive low post option that he's had is Antawn Jamison, who history will judge as inconsistent when it matters in the postseason. The 06-08 Caron Butler was nice but somewhere became not as aggressive to attack the basket by the time 09-10 rolled around. Didn't he have a broken thumb in the 06 series against the Cavs?

Neither LeBron James nor Dirk Nowitzki got any further with Antawn Jamison, Caron Butler as sidekick than Gilbert Arenas did.

[Illuminaire]

I was thinking the other day, what if a healthy Gilbert had better teammates? The best offensive low post option that he's had is Antawn Jamison, who history will judge as inconsistent when it matters in the postseason. The 06-08 Caron Butler was nice but somewhere became not as aggressive to attack the basket by the time 09-10 rolled around. Didn't he have a broken thumb in the 06 series against the Cavs?

I think we can all agree that the team built around Gil was deeply flawed in both theory and execution. I'm glad we're taking a different and more historically successful route with Wall so far. (Rebounding and defense first... assuming they add another scorer and some shooters later)

[Terpman]

I think we can all agree that the team built around Gil was deeply flawed in both theory and execution. I'm glad we're taking a different and more historically successful route with Wall so far. (Rebounding and defense first... assuming they add another scorer and some shooters later)[/quote]


Well said.

[sfam]

Guys, keep in mind, Gil was a second round draft pick, while Wall is the #1 Overall Pick. Think about that for a second. Arenas has already far surpassed whatever ceiling level potential every talent scout had ever had for him. For Gil to transform himself into the offensive phenom that he did is nothing short of spectacular. For that EJ deserves credit for whatever part he had in that. But moreso, Gil deserves massive credit for finding whatever it was within himself to transform his game to a far higher gear than anyone thought possible. It could be that what Gil was thinking about all this time was figuring out how to be an offensive phenom - perhaps if he had concentrated more on defense, his offense wouldn't be nearly where it is today.

The question now is, given a different set of incentives and goals, can Gil spend the time and take the interest to transform his defensive game as well.

[hands11]

I was thinking the other day, what if a healthy Gilbert had better teammates? The best offensive low post option that he's had is Antawn Jamison, who history will judge as inconsistent when it matters in the postseason. The 06-08 Caron Butler was nice but somewhere became not as aggressive to attack the basket by the time 09-10 rolled around. Didn't he have a broken thumb in the 06 series against the Cavs?

I think we can all agree that the team built around Gil was deeply flawed in both theory and execution. I'm glad we're taking a different and more historically successful route with Wall so far. (Rebounding and defense first... assuming they add another scorer and some shooters later)

Well, that is a point I have tried to argue for many years.

I agree totally. Having not just one but two professional true PG is a dramatic shift in what we have been doing. We had Blake at one point but that didn't last and he was very young and not established. That we had AD but he was past his prime. We had a few little PGs but they never lasted.

This is IMO, the best balance of talent we have had in a long time. It may not all be well established but I think we have more players playing their true position and who can defend at that position. And they are a more coachable group as a whole. It seems like everything is pulling in the same direction more than in the past.

PG - Two true PGs - One with experience. One a #1. Both defend.

SG - IMO an explosive natural SG in Gil and a young explosive talent in Nick. Both of which have needed to act more mature. Nick plays some solid D at times. Gil has a ways to go. Both can create separation and shoot lights out. Nick is a little more streaky.

SF - Booker should be a solid defender and showed and outside shot. AT had moments of playing solid D also

PF - DRAYYYY - The first year in a long long time we will start a true PF who can defend the position and the kid showed some nice moves around the basket on the post and a sweet outside stroke last year. Plus he can pass. Good court vision. And some depth with Yi

C - Still a big question but Wall and McGee seem to be getting it going in summer league so far. I think a lot of us saw this coming. Lets hope we find one of these centers or add one who can defend. McGee is taller and bigger. Lets hope he can defend better.

I know it is hard for some people to get excited after all the broken dreams but this could end up being a more talented team then we have had in a long time. And it is sound because we have players who can defend.

I don't think we need to hope for more high draft picks. We have a good young core. Now they need to grow together as a unit. This team would get better year over year if all we did is keep with we have together.

Again, if Gil do what he needs to do, he could still be a major star on this team. I can see him averaging 24-25 a night.

[hands11]

Guys, keep in mind, Gil was a second round draft pick, while Wall is the #1 Overall Pick. Think about that for a second. Arenas has already far surpassed whatever ceiling level potential every talent scout had ever had for him. For Gil to transform himself into the offensive phenom that he did is nothing short of spectacular. For that EJ deserves credit for whatever part he had in that. But moreso, Gil deserves massive credit for finding whatever it was within himself to transform his game to a far higher gear than anyone thought possible. It could be that what Gil was thinking about all this time was figuring out how to be an offensive phenom - perhaps if he had concentrated more on defense, his offense wouldn't be nearly where it is today.

The question now is, given a different set of incentives and goals, can Gil spend the time and take the interest to transform his defensive game as well.

I think it is pretty obvious that is what Gil did. He had something to prove and he did it with his offense and it worked for him. He became as famous as he did without needing to play solid D. What could have changed that is his head coach molding him to be a better defender. The problem was he had an offense couch so it didn't happen.

This is a better situation for Gil to learn D because it will be happening all around him and he doesn't need to spend as much energy thinking PG and bring it up all the time.

[Gilfanatic123]

Guys, keep in mind, Gil was a second round draft pick, while Wall is the #1 Overall Pick. Think about that for a second. Arenas has already far surpassed whatever ceiling level potential every talent scout had ever had for him. For Gil to transform himself into the offensive phenom that he did is nothing short of spectacular. For that EJ deserves credit for whatever part he had in that. But moreso, Gil deserves massive credit for finding whatever it was within himself to transform his game to a far higher gear than anyone thought possible. It could be that what Gil was thinking about all this time was figuring out how to be an offensive phenom - perhaps if he had concentrated more on defense, his offense wouldn't be nearly where it is today.

The question now is, given a different set of incentives and goals, can Gil spend the time and take the interest to transform his defensive game as well.

I think it is pretty obvious that is what Gil did. He had something to prove is it was about offense. And it worked for him. He became as famous as he did without needing to play solid D. What could have changed that is his head coach molding him to be a better defender. The problem was he had an offense couch so it didn't happen.

This is a better situation for Gil to learn D because it will be happening all around him and he doesn't need to spend as much energy thinking PG and bring it up all the time.

I am going to agree. My experience with watching the Wizards over the years is that they haven't really had that tight of a defensive scheme. They seemed to always allow players to score career nights on them. They always allowed lots of 3 pointers from the opposing team. It would help for them to tighten perimeter defense and tighten the defense around the paint. Work on that- then work on your offense. The team was flawed because we focused only on offense rather than focusing on offense and defense before. We need a bit of both.

[hands11]

And the players have been here so make it work " better " than it did.

It was always about lining them up better and EFJ never did. We posted about that for years.

It was always a risk or a compromised but it needed to happen.


Center
We had a more than serviceable center in Haywood who should have play at least 32 minutes a game.

PF - We had Dray. He was a young talented PF who should have gotten more minutes and he should have started with Haywood but AJ had to start at PF. Had we invested the time to Dray earlier, he would be farther along. The kid was always a better starter than bench player but he only started when everyone else was injured. Never had talent around him when starting.

SF - Since we didnt move AJ or CB, we had to make a decision. I never liked Gil at PG so if one didnt move, AJ had to be SF and CB SG with Gil at PG. But what would have moved all of this along would have been moving AJ or CB to the bench so Gil could play the SG which he is more suited for. Then he would be forced to do what he doesn't do naturally. He could just be Gil and focus on scoring. Maybe he would get bored with the extra energy and actually play some D. Then we needed to fill the PG with whatever worked at the time be it AD, Crit, etc.

We would have had the front court with Haywood and Dray. One strong side and one weakside defender. That would have set the tone. Gil would be going off at SG without needing to run the offense. SF would be scoring also be it CB or AJ. AJ had better range but CB a better all around game. Either could have worked. The other would have added to the second unit and had a huge advantage. We would have upgrade at PG sooner in this situation.

Everything would have fallen into place sooner be it NY backing up Gil at SG or MM if we even did that trade.

These are the same type of moves I have been talking about for years that we we are finally getting in order. And because we are, I think there is huge potential for Gil to blow up this year. Sadly what we are missing is Haywood. The trade I hatted the most. I though Haywood, McGee and Dray were the untouchables.

But we have what we have. Here we are and I actually think it looks great for Gil. I really hope we keep him this year. He could easily average 22-25 or a little more and finally play some D.

[Kanyewest]

Flip didn't play Andray over Jamison... I'm trying to think of a coach who would have had the guts to bench Jamison.

[hands11]

Flip didn't play Andray over Jamison... I'm trying to think of a coach who would have had the guts to bench Jamison.

Flip in his first year here could be expected to pull such a balls move without giving the old guard a shot. That would be expecting to much from any coach. The owner wanted to let it ride, they were the established vet the owner had been waiting to see together again. Come on. That wasn't even close to a far evaluation of the situation. But two that come to mind would be.

SA and LA.

[Shanghai Kid]

It's crazy to think Gilbert was a second round pick. If you think about it, in his prime his speed and quickness was nearly on par with guys like Wall and Iverson, and he has the bigger frame as well, along with the outside jumper. His passing skills are below average for a PG, but they are above average as a shooting guard. If he played defense he would have almost no weaknesses.

In the last ten years, the only players who had the same offensive skills I can think of are Kobe and prime T-Mac. We only got to see Prime Gil for about two years tho.