Wiz Sign Hilton Armstrong (and celebrity condolences)

[Ruzious]

The problem isn't talent with Armstrong or Yi. Both are hard-working athletic bigs, but they lack confidence and aggression. Armstrong has just regressed in the NBA. When a big man's PER falls below 10, he's just not going to make it. He's just an extra body.

[closg00]

The problem isn't talent with Armstrong or Yi. Both are hard-working athletic bigs, but they lack confidence and aggression. Armstrong has just regressed in the NBA. When a big man's PER falls below 10, he's just not going to make it. He's just an extra body.

Armstrong is what he is and Flip is going to rely on him if his defensive fundamentals are better than McGee's just like he went with Orberto often.

[Ruzious]

I'm getting tired of hearing the Oberto/McGee playing time reasoning. It's not the same situation. McGee was greener than green to start last season, and Oberto was a somewhat respected veteran - a former international star coming from San Antonio - a winning organization - where he played 12:30 minutes a game the season before - more than a minute per game more than what he played for the Wiz. Hilton Armstrong has a much weaker resume than Oberto did, and McGee has progressed from greener than green to green. Unless the asthma problems show up or he drives the coaches insane, he'll play over Armstrong.

[Hoopalotta]

Not to mention the mandate coming down from above is all about the development of our young hopefully-core guys. I don't think it's a stretch to say that if the youngsters are stagnant, Flip could easily be replaced next offseason and it's not going to matter to Ted if he's milking wins out of castoffs. That makes a huge difference.

If you look at Ernie's roster moves, I don't think there's much any pressure at all as far as the record this year. Only Howard appears to be a pure win now player with even Hinkerlitz making sense from a development perspective. Other than that, it's a ramshackle pirate crew press ganged from a grog shack, so there ain't no able-seamen working the rigging here.

[doclinkin]

Not to mention the mandate coming down from above is all about the development of our young hopefully-core guys. I don't think it's a stretch to say that if the youngsters are stagnant, Flip could easily be replaced next offseason and it's not going to matter to Ted if he's milking wins out of castoffs. That makes a huge difference.

If you look at Ernie's roster moves, I don't think there's much any pressure at all as far as the record this year. Only Howard appears to be a pure win now player with even Hinkerlitz making sense from a development perspective. Other than that, it's a ramshackle pirate crew press ganged from a grog shack, so there ain't no able-seamen working the rigging here.

Howard isn't even a win-now player. He's a cheap no-risk bargain, taking a flyer on chemistry and a potential re-sign if it pans out. He only gets paid decent money if he surprises and regenerates instantly. Front office liked his early returns with the team, maybe we can get him at a discount if he rehabs with the squad then re-inks based on his injured stats. You have to fill a 12 man roster somehow and can't entirely run with youngsters. He's a 'sure, why not' signing. But coming off an ACL, you don't expect major production for some time out of him.

[Hoopalotta]

I do see Howard as the guy furthest out from the pure development mandate in that his main contribution will be tacking a few extra wins onto the tally without necessarily being a core guy or a facilitator. He's also a little bit of a mercenary in that you throw him the ball and he attacks the basket. I guess his main development aspect (aside from presumed wins) is that he plays D, so that could work culturally even in a rental context.

The other teams that were looking into Howard were all contenders, so he's at least pretty close to "win-now". But sure, he's cheap, so that makes sense regardless of anything else.

[hands11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B39CNHAY_1w

Seems like a good enough kid. Seems a little bit like his confidence is down some in this interview but I like his answers and he stuck through the whole interview and did dodge any questions.

He says.. fresh start.. No excuses.. It's up to him. Kid isn't blaming anyone but himself so he knows where to look to fix it. He is no Fat Albert.

" I don't care how good a player I am. If I'm not playing I must be doing something the coach does like "

I'll be pulling for the kid. Some may have called him a bum as a player but from this interview, I hope he gets his game going.


http://strong12.com/

He has a foundation also.

[hands11]

The problem isn't talent with Armstrong or Yi. Both are hard-working athletic bigs, but they lack confidence and aggression. Armstrong has just regressed in the NBA. When a big man's PER falls below 10, he's just not going to make it. He's just an extra body.

Armstrong is what he is and Flip is going to rely on him if his defensive fundamentals are better than McGee's just like he went with Orberto often.

I kind of like where he could fix in. I always wanted an Etan type strong body on the team at a low price. If you look at it like that, it's a really nice addition since he cost next to nothing and it's only a one year contract.

Hey, this is a make it or break it type year for the kid. He has enough NBA experience to know what needs to be done. He doesn't seem to be blaming anyone else which is a good sign. He has the body and athleticism. It's nothing but an upside deal for the Wiz. If all he give us is more fouls and a 6-11 strong frame, it's a good deal. If he does more, it could be a good to great deal.

[Dat2U]

Not to mention the mandate coming down from above is all about the development of our young hopefully-core guys. I don't think it's a stretch to say that if the youngsters are stagnant, Flip could easily be replaced next offseason and it's not going to matter to Ted if he's milking wins out of castoffs. That makes a huge difference.

Totally agree. This isn't your daddy's Wizards. EG & Ed Tapscott's policy of letting the young guys rot (er, learn) on the bench while vets got all the minutes won't fly under Leonsis. Flip won't be the only one in danger of losing his job if Hilton Armstrong is seeing the bulk of minutes at C. Unlike with Pollin when the only priority was winning as many games as possible, EG & Flip are now charged with developing the young talent on the roster.

[hands11]

Not to mention the mandate coming down from above is all about the development of our young hopefully-core guys. I don't think it's a stretch to say that if the youngsters are stagnant, Flip could easily be replaced next offseason and it's not going to matter to Ted if he's milking wins out of castoffs. That makes a huge difference.

Totally agree. This isn't your daddy's Wizards. EG & Ed Tapscott's policy of letting the young guys rot (er, learn) on the bench while vets got all the minutes won't fly under Leonsis. Flip won't be the only one in danger of losing his job if Hilton Armstrong is seeing the bulk of minutes at C. Unlike with Pollin when the only priority was winning as many games as possible, EG & Flip are now charged with developing the young talent on the roster.

So are you saying Armstrong is an old guy ?

I'm not being back handed about this. I'm asking an honest question because I'm not following your logic or facts.

First, where did you read that this is Ted mandate ? Second, who are the old guys on this team ?

Our grand token single old guy is J Howard (30) I'm pretty sure Kirk is going to get playing time at SG (29) and not just sit on the bench so Nick(25) can play if he isn't playing well. Where is our non young talent that isnt going to be playing. Its Gil(28), Kirk(29) and Howard(30) and maybe AT(26). I'm pretty sure all of those players are in the regular rotation already.

Everyone else is "young".

I mean if Armstrong(25) is the same age as Nick and if he is actually producing in a line up with other players, why would Flip be in trouble for playing him. He is a young player also. Just because Yi and Armstrong were not drafted by us does mean they aren't players we will play, develop and reward with playing time if they are playing well and other players like McGee or Nick aren't.

Sure we have some really young players on this team like ( Wall, Seraphin, McGee, Yi) but Armstrong and Nick at 25 are not old.

[Ed Wood]

So are you saying Armstrong is an old guy ?

I'm not being back handed about this. I'm asking an honest question because I'm not following your logic or facts.

It's not, I imagine, that Dat and and Hoop are confused about Armstrong's actual age so much as that they are of the opinion, as I am, that whatever his age all of those factors that make youth a significant attribute in a player are not really a part of Hilton. He's not really a player who has yet to find himself in the league or who has any clear path to significant development. He does what he does and what he does is what a fourth or fifth big man might do and even then not in a way that a very good team would want him to do it at all.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that he's incapable of significant development but a number of factors, being drafted after unspectacular college production at an advanced age for a draft pick, having not shown any real improvement over the course of his career, there isn't really any definite purchase there to cling to any hope. So what if he's just now able to rent a car if he can't ball. None of us are rooting against him really, but Gandhi probably would have been a marginal NBA player too.

I mean if Armstrong(25) is the same age as Nick and if he is actually producing in a line up with other players, why would Flip be in trouble for playing him. He is a young player also. Just because Yi and Armstrong were not drafted by us does mean they aren't players we will play, develop and reward with playing time if they are playing well and other players like McGee or Nick aren't.

Sure we have some really young players on this team like ( Wall, Seraphin, McGee, Yi) but Armstrong and Nick at 25 are not old.

In the off chance that one of the aliens from Space Jam steals Shawn Bradley's game again and gives it to Hilton or whatever that's fine but generally people are inclined to prefer that Yi and especially Armstrong don't see significant minutes for the eminently reasonable cause that both have pretty much sucked for their entire NBA careers and we have other players on the roster of whom that is either not true or not yet true.

[Dat2U]

Yep Ed, I don't think anyone views Armstrong as a core player with a long term future here. McGee OTOH is a part of that core. And he'll be given every, and I do mean every chance to succeed. While Armstrong is still relatively young I think we've seen what he can do. There just isn't much upside there. There's likely a very good reason a 25 yr old center & former 1st round pick was available to us for the veteran's minimum.

There's not an actual written "mandate" but I think Leonsis has repeated over and over again that he doesn't want to take short-cuts in rebuilding process. "Patience" seems to be his key word. Patience means riding with the ups and downs of developing a young core and not changing course because there are some bad stretches. McGee may very well get benched at some point this season, but it won't be because Armstrong or whoever represents moderate improvement defensively. It will be done to motivate McGee to respond and improve his play.

[Ruzious]

McGee may very well get benched at some point this season, but it won't be because Armstrong or whoever represents moderate improvement defensively. It will be done to motivate McGee to respond and improve his play.

That's the best way to say it.

[verbal8]

Not to mention the mandate coming down from above is all about the development of our young hopefully-core guys. I don't think it's a stretch to say that if the youngsters are stagnant, Flip could easily be replaced next offseason and it's not going to matter to Ted if he's milking wins out of castoffs. That makes a huge difference.

If you look at Ernie's roster moves, I don't think there's much any pressure at all as far as the record this year. Only Howard appears to be a pure win now player with even Hinkerlitz making sense from a development perspective. Other than that, it's a ramshackle pirate crew press ganged from a grog shack, so there ain't no able-seamen working the rigging here.

Howard isn't even a win-now player. He's a cheap no-risk bargain, taking a flyer on chemistry and a potential re-sign if it pans out. He only gets paid decent money if he surprises and regenerates instantly. Front office liked his early returns with the team, maybe we can get him at a discount if he rehabs with the squad then re-inks based on his injured stats. You have to fill a 12 man roster somehow and can't entirely run with youngsters. He's a 'sure, why not' signing. But coming off an ACL, you don't expect major production for some time out of him.

I would not be shocked to the see the one or more of the "win-now" guys dealt for a draft pick near the trade deadline. I definitely think the focus is on a championship in the future not in making the play-offs next year.

[hands11]

So are you saying Armstrong is an old guy ?

I'm not being back handed about this. I'm asking an honest question because I'm not following your logic or facts.

It's not, I imagine, that Dat and and Hoop are confused about Armstrong's actual age so much as that they are of the opinion, as I am, that whatever his age all of those factors that make youth a significant attribute in a player are not really a part of Hilton. He's not really a player who has yet to find himself in the league or who has any clear path to significant development. He does what he does and what he does is what a fourth or fifth big man might do and even then not in a way that a very good team would want him to do it at all.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that he's incapable of significant development but a number of factors, being drafted after unspectacular college production at an advanced age for a draft pick, having not shown any real improvement over the course of his career, there isn't really any definite purchase there to cling to any hope. So what if he's just now able to rent a car if he can't ball. None of us are rooting against him really, but Gandhi probably would have been a marginal NBA player too.

I mean if Armstrong(25) is the same age as Nick and if he is actually producing in a line up with other players, why would Flip be in trouble for playing him. He is a young player also. Just because Yi and Armstrong were not drafted by us does mean they aren't players we will play, develop and reward with playing time if they are playing well and other players like McGee or Nick aren't.

Sure we have some really young players on this team like ( Wall, Seraphin, McGee, Yi) but Armstrong and Nick at 25 are not old.

In the off chance that one of the aliens from Space Jam steals Shawn Bradley's game again and gives it to Hilton or whatever that's fine but generally people are inclined to prefer that Yi and especially Armstrong don't see significant minutes for the eminently reasonable cause that both have pretty much sucked for their entire NBA careers and we have other players on the roster of whom that is either not true or not yet true.

So it seem we have come to agree on policy. The idea of playing young players is a red herring. We are a team of young players and the ones that aren't as young will all be playing. We are going to play, develop and reward all of our younger player based on performance. Granted, McGee most likely gets slotted in a starting position to start camp but that does not guaranty him a starting spot coming out of camp. They will figure that out in camp. And even with that, it doesn't mean it will stay like that for the season.

And it seems we agree that Armstrong has potential. Will he reach it ? Odds are he won't if your just looking at what he has done in the NBA to date. I was just pointing out that he is only "mostly dead" There is a big difference between dead and mostly dead. Mostly dead is still partly alive.

Just saying that from what I saw in those clips and the interviews is a kid that:

1-Has a strong NBA body and is only 25 and 6-11
2-Who banged nicely on some post moves putting his should into players to make space
3-Showed some nimble footwork around the hoop
4-Was quick to run the court and get dunks and put backs.
5-Showed good timing on some blocks
6-Was aggressive to dive on the floor.
7-Didn't make excuses for his lack to reinforcement. He owns it which is mature

In Summary. He isn't to old and he seems to have the physical skills to produce.

That's a lot of good stuff. Now he just has to put it together mentally. I don't minimize that last step but it is doable and it isn't to late for the kid. Just pointing out that Armstrong isn't a Fabio. Fab was old and slow and near done in the NBA. He isn't a Ruffin. Armstrong still has a chance to be a useful player. I'll be pulling for the kid to show something.