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willbcocks wrote:Sean Livingston took a bad team and made it slightly less bad.

We enjoyed the audition and hope it serves you well. Good luck in your career but we've already found our leading man.

Just as people are forecasting John Wall will do.

If the team trades Arenas nobody expects us to Win more than 30 games.

So in effect, John Wall will have taken a bad team and made it slightly less bad.

SHAUn Livingston would've been a better backup/starter than Kirk Hinrich at much less cost.

Alonzo Gee is a better prospect/role player than Trevor Booker.

Grunfeld is a clown.

This whining over "letting Livingston go" is just silly. More than anything, the guy wanted a chance to play. That's what he needs right now, and absent an obscene contract, we weren't going to keep him here. Its cool to be mad a Grunfeld for many of his past moves (I am too), for letting the perennial all-star Gee go, that he likes vanilla milkshakes when he goes to McDonalds, and perhaps some of the moves he's made this year, but deciding that our rebuild is going to be a failure based on letting Livingston go is just tad too bizarre to me.

We don't even know if Leonsis, who is really the guy in charge of our rebuild, is going to keep him after this next year. But regardless whether our rebuild succeeds or fails, I really doubt, like really seriously doubt that anyone will ever point to letting Livingston go as the reason. OK, he gave us a couple of good weeks - I liked him too. I truly hope he does great a Charlotte, but once we got the first pick in the draft (I suppose you can blame Grunfeld for this too) he was never planning to come back here.

sfam wrote:This whining over "letting Livingston go" is just silly. More than anything, the guy wanted a chance to play. That's what he needs right now, and absent an obscene contract, we weren't going to keep him here. Its cool to be mad a Grunfeld for many of his past moves (I am too), for letting the perennial all-star Gee go, that he likes vanilla milkshakes when he goes to McDonalds, and perhaps some of the moves he's made this year, but deciding that our rebuild is going to be a failure based on letting Livingston go is just tad too bizarre to me.

We don't even know if Leonsis, who is really the guy in charge of our rebuild, is going to keep him after this next year. But regardless whether our rebuild succeeds or fails, I really doubt, like really seriously doubt that anyone will ever point to letting Livingston go as the reason. OK, he gave us a couple of good weeks - I liked him too. I truly hope he does great a Charlotte, but once we got the first pick in the draft (I suppose you can blame Grunfeld for this too) he was never planning to come back here.

The team made a simple choice, Hinrich @ 9Mil per is a better value than Livingston @ 3.5Mil per.

You cannot deny this choice was made, Livingston was here and no offer was made to keep him. While Hinrich was absorbed into our precious Cap Space.

This choice is wrong. Grunfeld is a clown.

This choice is made even MORE wrong, if/when they trade Arenas.

Krizko Zero wrote:

sfam wrote:This whining over "letting Livingston go" is just silly. More than anything, the guy wanted a chance to play. That's what he needs right now, and absent an obscene contract, we weren't going to keep him here. Its cool to be mad a Grunfeld for many of his past moves (I am too), for letting the perennial all-star Gee go, that he likes vanilla milkshakes when he goes to McDonalds, and perhaps some of the moves he's made this year, but deciding that our rebuild is going to be a failure based on letting Livingston go is just tad too bizarre to me.

We don't even know if Leonsis, who is really the guy in charge of our rebuild, is going to keep him after this next year. But regardless whether our rebuild succeeds or fails, I really doubt, like really seriously doubt that anyone will ever point to letting Livingston go as the reason. OK, he gave us a couple of good weeks - I liked him too. I truly hope he does great a Charlotte, but once we got the first pick in the draft (I suppose you can blame Grunfeld for this too) he was never planning to come back here.

The team made a simple choice, Hinrich @ 9Mil per is a better value than Livingston @ 3.5Mil per.

You cannot deny this choice was made, Livingston was here and no offer was made to keep him. While Hinrich was absorbed into our precious Cap Space.

This choice is wrong. Grunfeld is a clown.

This choice is made even MORE wrong, if/when they trade Arenas.

No, it wasn't that simple. The Wiz got the 17th pick for taking on Hinrich's contract. EG obviously targetted Seraphin. Taking on Hinrich's contract was the price he paid.

^$3 million in cash too. Plus Hiney's a selfless mentor type while Livingston would have likely felt uppity about the idea of Wall coming in.

I just don't see how Livingston and Wall would have played together - you've got two ball dominant guards without much range; he was a fifteen minute backup here, but with a a chance at a starting role in Charlotte.

I let that one go long, long ago. Ping pong ball night, actually.

Hoopalotta wrote:I let that one go long, long ago. Ping pong ball night, actually.

Yup. Losing Livingston wasn't "EG's fault". It was just an unfortunate twist of fate. Livingston wasn't going to stay here to be Wall's backup for 10 minutes a game.

Hoopalotta wrote:^$3 million in cash too. Plus Hiney's a selfless mentor type while Livingston would have likely felt uppity about the idea of Wall coming in.

I just don't see how Livingston and Wall would have played together - you've got two ball dominant guards without much range; he was a fifteen minute backup here, but with a a chance at a starting role in Charlotte.

I let that one go long, long ago. Ping pong ball night, actually.

Fair enough. I agree that the perception was that they couldn't play together - though I don't agree with the perception.

Krizko Zero wrote:

willbcocks wrote:Sean Livingston took a bad team and made it slightly less bad.

We enjoyed the audition and hope it serves you well. Good luck in your career but we've already found our leading man.

Just as people are forecasting John Wall will do.

If the team trades Arenas nobody expects us to Win more than 30 games.

So in effect, John Wall will have taken a bad team and made it slightly less bad.

SHAUn Livingston would've been a better backup/starter than Kirk Hinrich at much less cost.

Alonzo Gee is a better prospect/role player than Trevor Booker.

Grunfeld is a clown.

C'mon, man. This just isn't how it works at all.

Says who? The team made no effort. period.

Krizko Zero wrote:Says who? The team made no effort. period.

We don't know that.

nate33 wrote:

Krizko Zero wrote:Says who? The team made no effort. period.

We don't know that.

If we had incontrovertible evidence that EG made absolutely no attempt to retain Livingston that would be disappointing. I highly doubt it. As I (and several others) have stated many times, once the Wizards won the lottery it became very difficult to retain Livingston. Livingston and Wall are not a good combination together. Livingston and Arenas actually complement one another much better. It's simply a matter of minutes and opportunities, and both of those things were much more available to Livingston on several other teams than the Wizards.

nate33 wrote:

Krizko Zero wrote:Says who? The team made no effort. period.

We don't know that.

Just like we don't know that they did. Nothing published shows that they did.

Krizko Zero wrote:

nate33 wrote:

Krizko Zero wrote:Says who? The team made no effort. period.

We don't know that.

Just like we don't know that they did. Nothing published shows that they did.

Yeah, but common sense suggests that the Wizards at least tried to keep Livingston. Flip and EG did nothing but praise Livingston during his tenure here.

sfam wrote:This whining over "letting Livingston go" is just silly. More than anything, the guy wanted a chance to play. That's what he needs right now, and absent an obscene contract, we weren't going to keep him here. Its cool to be mad a Grunfeld for many of his past moves (I am too), for letting the perennial all-star Gee go, that he likes vanilla milkshakes when he goes to McDonalds, and perhaps some of the moves he's made this year, but deciding that our rebuild is going to be a failure based on letting Livingston go is just tad too bizarre to me.

We don't even know if Leonsis, who is really the guy in charge of our rebuild, is going to keep him after this next year. But regardless whether our rebuild succeeds or fails, I really doubt, like really seriously doubt that anyone will ever point to letting Livingston go as the reason. OK, he gave us a couple of good weeks - I liked him too. I truly hope he does great a Charlotte, but once we got the first pick in the draft (I suppose you can blame Grunfeld for this too) he was never planning to come back here.

Exactly.

I was wondering what this thread was doing hanging around so I decided to take a dip and see what was going on. Are people really getting on EG because Shawn signed somewhere else ?

Only way I can see we would have kept Shawn is if we decided we had our PGs in himself and Kirk, which you can argue. Then we would have traded down from the first to get some assest in the trade down and we picked up something later like Cousins.

But once we decided on Wall, there was no place for Shawn special once we picked up Chicagos pick and Kirk. Hey, I was a big Shawn fan while he was here. I hate to see him go. I think he will be productive in the league and a solid PG. But once we got Wall, it was written that Shawn was gone.

Hinrich was not a FA signing--hinrich was a means of using cap space to acquire the #17 pick and draft a high potential big man. If signing Livingston magically guaranteed Seraphin, I would have been all for that too.

Either way, our franchise player is a pg. Livingston is a pg. Livingston is not a guy I would want to pair with Wall--he can't shoot and his defense is below average.

I could care less if we lose the backup for our franchise player in the first of a couple rebuilding years.

I would rather Shaun have the chance to get more minutes on a better team. He's been through enough already and helped us out last year, so I'm happy for him that he appears to be going to a good situation in Charlotte.