EG post Abe era started Nov 24, 2009 - Eval EG from then

[JonathanJoseph]

[
Taking the last 7 years since Grunfeld left Milwaukee, they've averaged 35 wins/year with 2 trips to the playoffs, and that's taking this last season into account. It took them 7 full years to get back to .500.

I don't see how you can paint that picture any other way, the franchise has been a mess since Grunfeld left. I'm certain the same before/after analysis for the Knicks would prove to be even more stark.

The Wizards went to the playoffs once in 15 years before Grunfeld arrived and then went 4 times in a row. The Wizards were a young team on the rise when the injuries hit.

I get that everyone is so jaded after the most miserable 2-season stretch for any NBA franchise imaginable, so it's easy to assume the GM sucks, but prior to this stretch Grunfeld's got a 20 year resume that shows he's a very, very good NBA GM.

35 wins a year that sounds so familiar to me, just like another team over the past seven years, maybe someone can help me which team that would be...

Oh, that's right, that would be the Wizards.

Right, but it might make sense to add a little context and make an exception for injuries. And that's why when you look at Grunfeld's 20 year career you can very clearly see what's the exception and what's the rule.

[JonathanJoseph]

^
I'm not a knee jerk pro-EG poster, and I still don't know whether that was EG's idea or Pollin's idea. I prefer to stick with things I feel reasonably certain of, so I focus on execution, regardless of whose idea it was. I always kind of got the feeling that EG would rather not have EJ.

Trying to bring in Thibodeau was a sign that EG was not thrilled with EJ. I think it fell apart because Pollin backed EJ in power struggle with EG.

Yes, that was a great move to bring Thibodeau in, but Ernie lost-control of the situation. EJ knew what was up and he and or his assistants froze Thibs-out so he bolted to Boston. Pull-up Ivan's Insider reports on what went down. Stop blaming Abe.

yes, this was a bizarre power struggle situation which was the result of the owner hiring the coach first and general manager second.

"A fish rots at the head" is not a famous aphorism for no reason.

[hands11]

^
I'm not a knee jerk pro-EG poster, and I still don't know whether that was EG's idea or Pollin's idea. I prefer to stick with things I feel reasonably certain of, so I focus on execution, regardless of whose idea it was. I always kind of got the feeling that EG would rather not have EJ.

Trying to bring in Thibodeau was a sign that EG was not thrilled with EJ. I think it fell apart because Pollin backed EJ in power struggle with EG.

A agree. This is part of the murky middle. Personally, I doubt that was EGs idea to keep EJ. That said, I would fully expect EG to tow the company line by saying what he did.

There was no reason to re-up his contract that early when he could have let him play out his contract that year. And like you said, he was trying to Eddie proof the team as much as possible both with roster moves and baby sitting coaches. Then as soon as EG had the leverage to dump EJ, he did.

Abe picked EJ before EG so I would say it is safe to say Abe as owner was the one who would need to be convinced he was wrong before EG was able to get ride of him. EJ was all on Abe, not EG. That was such a freakn dysfunctional a situation. I couldn't imagine working in that situation were I was the GM and I wasn't able to pick the head coach I wanted but instead had to deal with someone of EJs quality and I had to convince the owner to let me have control over things that come with my job title. Not for one or three years but for seven years.

The only reason I can think of why EG would stick around for that is because (a) he was getting paid and (b) he know Abe wasn't going to be around much longer and Ted would likely take over. That isn't hind sight, I have said that for years. Now look at it and EG has what he wanted. Ted is owner and he got to pick his coach. Now lets see if things get a lot better.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

As for his last two stops Larry Harriswas picked by Kohl as EG's immediate successor in Milwaukee. Milwuakee canned him in 2008. He drafted Bogut, Redd, and Yi Jianlian among others. Blake, Boykins, Booth, Simmons, and Mike James were all part of his rosters at some point. He had young draft picks and a lot of guys who have been a part of Wizards mediocrity. JoJo, Milwaukee's GM after Harris, John Hammond won the 2010 NBA Executive of the Year. Jenning and Salmons, coached by his coach Scott Skiles and that team made the playoffs last season. Milwaukee is hardly miserable now. I would venture to as you to compare the Bucks' wins vs salary the past few seasons and compare with the Wizards under EG.

Huh? For starters, Grunfeld was the one who drafted Michael Redd, so scratch that off the Larry Harris resume. I don't really know what you are trying to suggest with your list of players.

JonathanJoseph, you're right. I was mistaken. This is what Harris did:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Harris

August 13, 2005 – Re-signed guard Michael Redd to the maximum contract permitted, for six years and $91 million.

[montestewart]

^
I'm not a knee jerk pro-EG poster, and I still don't know whether that was EG's idea or Pollin's idea. I prefer to stick with things I feel reasonably certain of, so I focus on execution, regardless of whose idea it was. I always kind of got the feeling that EG would rather not have EJ.

EJ should have been fired for not playing Haywood, especially during the playoff series vs the Cavs. I'll never forget the tip-off with Etan vs Z. EG was the enabler during the entire fiasco.

Even Ilguaskas questioned that move when Haywood had been playing him so well.

[hands11]

Interesting point, EG got EJ a high quality defensive center in Haywood. Is it EG's fault EJ wouldn't play him? I'd instead give credit to EG for not getting rid of BH when EJ demanded he be traded. Or BH demanded it. Or whatever the heck happened that year, don't remember.

EG did not bring Haywood here, that was MJ. But the rest of what you wrote seem accurate.

Interesting Review of Haywood. There is some stuff here I didn't know about Haywood in college.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Haywood

Haywood graduated from the University of North Carolina in 2001. He was selected by the Cleveland Cavaliers with the 20th overall pick of the 2001 NBA Draft. Cleveland traded Haywood to the Orlando Magic in exchange for Michael Doleac, who in turn traded him to the Washington Wizards in exchange for Laron Profit and a first-round draft pick.

I had forgetting that Cleveland was involved and I didnt know Haywood was tied in a deal with fan favorite L Profit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02142.html
(Michael Jordan acquired him from Orlando in August 2001 after Haywood was drafted by Cleveland and traded to the Magic on draft night.)

[closg00]

Interesting point, EG got EJ a high quality defensive center in Haywood. Is it EG's fault EJ wouldn't play him? I'd instead give credit to EG for not getting rid of BH when EJ demanded he be traded. Or BH demanded it. Or whatever the heck happened that year, don't remember.

EG did not bring Haywood here, that was MJ. But the rest of what you wrote seem accurate.

Interesting Review of Haywood. There is some stuff here I didn't know about Haywood in college.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Haywood

Haywood graduated from the University of North Carolina in 2001. He was selected by the Cleveland Cavaliers with the 20th overall pick of the 2001 NBA Draft. Cleveland traded Haywood to the Orlando Magic in exchange for Michael Doleac, who in turn traded him to the Washington Wizards in exchange for Laron Profit and a first-round draft pick.

I had forgetting that Cleveland was involved and I didnt know Haywood was tied in a deal with fan favorite L Profit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02142.html
(Michael Jordan acquired him from Orlando in August 2001 after Haywood was drafted by Cleveland and traded to the Magic on draft night.)

I thought you wanted this thread to be about the post Abe era?

[hands11]

Time to dust off the original thread. To put this in context. This thread was started back when there was still a lot of EG bashing going on in an attempt to get to board looking at him with fresh eyes. Well, since then more has been revealed and the tone regarding EG seems to be more favorable.

But this article sheds some light to part of the argument I was making for EG.
Great to see confirmation of speculation. EG was lining things up for Ted even before he was owner.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 06418.html


Leonsis took over as majority owner of the franchise shortly before the draft, pledging that the Wizards would follow the same team-building model as the Capitals, who rose into an NHL power through the draft, shrewd deals and player signings. Grunfeld said he has always been on the same page as Leonsis, having started the rebuilding efforts in February, when he made a flurry of salary-dumping deals to create cap space last summer.

Add to this.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... ree-t.html


Ted and EG are executing nicely.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?sto ... z10YzVhka5

[hands11]

yoo homies

[Dat2U]

Grunfeld said he has always been on the same page as Leonsis, having started the rebuilding efforts in February, when he made a flurry of salary-dumping deals to create cap space last summer.

Of course EG is gonna say that. What else you think he was going to say?

In February, anyone could have seen the writing on the wall. It doesn't take a genius or a wise basketball executive to see that the ship had sunk with that current roster. That wasn't forward thinking, that was reacting to the abject disaster that had taken place.

Maybe for you & a few others, the moves in February wiped the slate clean for Ernie. But for me, I clearly remember saying for years that this team was on a one-way ticket to nowhere and Ernie's plan of staying the course & keeping continuity was not a winning formula. Blame the dead man if you want, but it's absolutely ridiculous to assume that Ernie wasn't culpable in Wizards returning to laughingstock status over the last two years.

[hands11]

Grunfeld said he has always been on the same page as Leonsis, having started the rebuilding efforts in February, when he made a flurry of salary-dumping deals to create cap space last summer.

Of course EG is gonna say that. What else you think he was going to say?

In February, anyone could have seen the writing on the wall. It doesn't take a genius or a wise basketball executive to see that the ship had sunk with that current roster. That wasn't forward thinking, that was reacting to the abject disaster that had taken place.

Maybe for you & a few others, the moves in February wiped the slate clean for Ernie. But for me, I clearly remember saying for years that this team was on a one-way ticket to nowhere and Ernie's plan of staying the course & keeping continuity was not a winning formula. Blame the dead man if you want, but it's absolutely ridiculous to assume that Ernie wasn't culpable in Wizards returning to laughingstock status over the last two years.

I also for years said we weren't going anywhere and I always showed how that was connected to Abe. He wasn't dead them so I am hardly blaming the dead man.

But the point of the thread isn't about whipping the slate clean. Its about trying to just a man in the middle when the pieces on the outside have changed. Its about evaluating him once that situation changed.

There is no conclusion drawn.

[hands11]

Great concentary throughout. They said a lot of accurate stuff about the team.

8:40 Ted Lucky Ted. Alex and now Wall.
About Dray. Wanted him to know they had confidence in young players and now he can play for the team instead of for a contract.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Di0d6uN ... re=related

Ernie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLlQy11p ... re=related

John Wall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KFZaFw2 ... re=related

[hands11]

Time to raise this from the dead.

Ok, post Abe only. Come on. The guy has done a good job cleaning house and setting things up. He hasn't had a bad trade and there has been many. And he picked well.

Latest was Gil gone for Lewis on a shorter contract.

Now Kirk who we got for nothing really, turned in player, a new coach for Wall who can be bought out and a first.

Now a shorter expiring SF in Mo, plus Bibby for less, a young prospect first in Crawford and another first.

When are people going to start to see things changed Nov 24th

[AceDegenerate]

Time to raise this from the dead.

Ok, post Abe only. Come on. The guy has done a good job cleaning house and setting things up. He hasn't had a bad trade and there has been many. And he picked well.

Latest was Gil gone for Lewis on a shorter contract.

Now Kirk who we got for nothing really, turned in player, a new coach for Wall who can be bought out and a first.

Now a shorter expiring SF in Mo, plus Bibby for less, a young prospect first in Crawford and another first.

When are people going to start to see things chanced Nov 24th

Would you ever say anything bad about anyone employed by this franchise anyway? Nope. You wouldn't dare.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Let's crown this guy when this team manages to get over .500 again. Until then, he is the 6th year GM of the 2nd worst team in the Eastern Conference.

[hands11]

Report this postReply with quoteRe: Big Bibby Buy-out
by nate33 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:06 pm

Reposted here for posterity:

Okay, so EG absorbed Hinrich's salary in exchange for Seraphin and $3M cash. He then traded Hinrich for Crawford, the #20 pick, and Bibby. He then got Bibby to shave off $6.2M of what he is owed. In the final analysis, EG spent a grand total of $7.8M to get Seraphin, Crawford, the #20 pick, and a 60-game rental of Kirk Hinrich

--

Chalk up another one for the New Era starting Nov 24th, 2009

[DaRealHibachi]

EG has done a good job since Abe passed, very solid B (B+, even) in my book...

[AceDegenerate]

Yay! New Era! Wizards are the GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#!#!#!

[Induveca]

Sorry, if there was an F I'd give him one.

We're always making excuses for the franchise. The fans have ALWAYS been part of the problem in DC with the Wizards.

And now we're doing backflips because Grunfeld made a GOOD, but not spectacular deal? Yes, we received two picks and Seraphin for pretty cheap. But so what?

We're 15-43!! EG and Flip get a huge F. Pollin (RIP) passed away nearly 1 1/2 years ago now. We're at the bottom, or near the bottom in the losses column during that period of time. And Abe was gone for a while with his ilness, so Grunfeld in fact has had over two years to right the ship and failed miserably. Getting two mid to late round first rounders doesn't take away from Grunfeld being largely inept these past few years. He gave away a #5 pick for what proved to be NOTHING. These picks don't make up for that (I could continue down the list of transgressions, but that was the worst IMO).

I'm sick of grading this organization on a curve. I'll be willing to do so if there isn't the cloud of ineptitude and losing culture hanging over the franchise. It's starts with Grunfeld being fired. A change if culture is DESPERATELY needed.

Again, we get Crawford, a buyout of Bibby and two late picks. If Grunfeld's history is any indication, outside of Wall he'll draft players which never develop, or take 4 years to develop. I'm not committing to 4 more years of Grunfeld, which is why I PRAY he doesn't make the picks.

[AceDegenerate]

OHH NOESSS!!! NEGATIVITY!? Didn't you hear Induveca? It's a NEW ERA in this bish right here!!! WE THE BESSSSSST!!