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Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Sun Sep 5, 2010 10:17 pm
by The Fax
Seraphin is not a perimeter player like his future French national teammates, but he is similarly gifted from a physical standpoint, and he just happens to be represented by the same agent, Bouna Ndiaye. Ndiaye surely knows how to push the right buttons. The Senegalese-born, and incredibly jovial, Dallas native doesn’t need to say much more than “I don’t want you to make the same mistake again my friend” in his cheerful French accent to strike fear in the hearts of NBA personnel these days.

He may not even need to say that though. Seraphin’s case as an NBA prospect is made as soon as he steps foot on the court. He stands around 6-9 without shoes, has a huge wingspan, and sports a chiseled 268-pound frame. He runs the floor well, gets off his feet with ease and ranks as one of the top per-minute rebounders and shot blockers in the ultra-athletic French Pro A League.

Seraphin is still far from a finished product though.

A native of French Guiana, a colony on the northern coast of South America, he only started playing basketball at the age of 15 and has been in France for just four years now. He was discovered in his native country by Cholet junior team coach Jean-Francois Martin after growing up as a soccer player. In the years since, he has slowly but surely developed from project to prospect to a starter this season (in 13 of the last 20 games) on the top-ranked team in France.

Seraphin played just nine minutes per game in 2008-09 and barely saw minutes on the French junior national team the summer prior. He rode a strong showing in the U-20 European Championships this past July to a bigger role this season with Cholet, becoming a more prominent part of the rotation and landing a spot in the starting lineup in each of the last nine games.

He’s still averaging just over 16 minutes per game, but Seraphin has improved in virtually every statistical category this season: upping his scoring numbers, getting to the free throw line more often, doing a better job on the glass, contributing more as a shot blocker, doubling his assist rate and cutting down on his turnovers.

Offensively, Seraphin remains a raw prospect by NBA standards. He does a good job using his body to carve out space in the post (where he can finish above the rim in impressive fashion thanks to his tremendous length), but he is still lacking in terms of advanced footwork and post moves. He looks a bit limited at times when double teams arrive and he’s forced to improvise or make quick decisions.

Seraphin has good hands and is a terrific target for lobs and pick-and-roll finishes, but he’s not the type of player you want making plays with the ball at this point in his career. Improving his repertoire of spin moves, pivots and countermoves in the post will go a long way -- as will gaining experience and improving his all-around feel for the game.

With that said, Seraphin shows interesting potential with his jump hook. He’s able to get it off smoothly and convert it with either hand. He also appears to have a soft touch around the basket, particularly with a good-looking turnaround jump shot that he executes with a high release point.

Seraphin clearly has things to work on. His activity level and intensity seem to fluctuate quite a bit from game to game (leading to some inconsistent performances), he has limitations stepping away from the basket, his ball-handling skills are crude, and his mid-range jumper is very much a work in progress – all hints that his future position is clearly center, where his bulk and length should compensate for the inch or two he lacks in prototypical size for an NBA 5-man.

Defensively, Seraphin is much more useful at this point. He shows a much greater comfort level on the defensive end, where he’s a terrific presence inside the paint with his superb combination of length, strength and athleticism. He displays nice timing when rotating from the weak side and is especially effective at hedging pick-and-rolls, while still having the mobility to recover back onto his man thanks to his nimble feet and nice lateral quickness. He’s difficult to post up due to his wide frame, and he puts in a good effort on top of that. This puts him in a pretty rare class of prospects when considering his physical tools.

With that said, Seraphin’s inexperience shows on the defensive end as well.

He displays only average awareness and tends to leave his feet on pump fakes, causing him to get into foul trouble on occasion. From time to time he gets caught flat-footed watching a defensive rebound fly over his head. He’s not quite as effective in this area as you might hope, considering his tools. This is likely due to his so-so fundamentals. Seraphin is an incredible presence on the offensive glass, though, ranking in the Top five in France in offensive rebounds per-40 minutes.

Having only played basketball for five years, Seraphin is still very much playing catch-up with other prospects his age, but he is making up ground rapidly. His ceiling is extremely high, and he’s rumored to be a smart and humble player -- which is always a good sign.

FIBA Europe


Seraphin has the flexibility of coming to the NBA immediately or staying for another year in France. He’s supposedly open to either option. He signed a three-year contract with Cholet last summer, but he has a clearly-stated NBA out clause with a buyout sum that escalates depending on how high he’s picked. The buyout cannot exceed $750,000.

He is also drawing heavy interest from some of the top teams in Europe — Barcelona, for example — but reportedly has his heart set on playing in the NBA.

Seraphin has until June 14 to decide whether to keep his name in the draft or pull out and become automatically eligible next year. The NBA teams evaluating him will need to decide how much they think he can improve in the next year or two, and whether being patient and drafting him now (in the late teens to early 20s portion of the first round) will get them good value down the road. We’re talking about a player who is still in a very early stage of his development. If he improves as much as expected, he could very well work his way into the lottery next season. On certain NBA teams’ draft boards, he could already be there right now.

The final call will likely be made based on the types of organizations showing interest. His agent Ndiaye has done a good job in recent years of steering clients to places he thinks they can develop -- such as Portland, Dallas and San Antonio -- and he’ll probably take a similar route this time around with Seraphin.

From what Ndiaye told us in Paris this week, he’s feeling increasingly comfortable with the information he’s receiving from NBA teams in terms of keeping Seraphin’s name in the draft. Look for NBA GMs to spend quite a bit of time in the next month or so in France trying to get a better handle on Seraphin’s draft prospects. He holds invites to both the NBA combine and the adidas EuroCamp in Treviso, but appears unlikely to be able to accept either due to the fact that his team will be playing in the playoffs until as late as mid-June.

Although this draft is stacked with big men, Seraphin has characteristics that put him in a rare class for today’s NBA game. The future of the French national team clearly looks extremely bright.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kev ... z0yhBvOPZt
http://www.draftexpress.com


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kev ... phin-5278/

Man, this kid has me really excited (He's just 20 years old and he's 6'9 268 with practically no body fat). All the articles I've read about him so far have been saying he needs to develop his post game a little more, but something that really encouraged me is everyone saying he has great hands for a big. Now we all know how important that is *cough* kwame *cough*.

How good do you guys think this kid can really be? All star, solid starter, role player? If you ask me, this kid reminds me of a young Amare Stoudemire (before he developed his 17 ft jumper). What are your observations of him in FIBA play?

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Sun Sep 5, 2010 11:13 pm
by dobrojim
ibtl

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Sun Sep 5, 2010 11:25 pm
by daSwami
I'm excited about him, too; although I always try and temper my enthusiasm when it comes to the Wizards. This guy seems to have a ton of positives: off-the-charts size, strength and athleticism. Too, I've read that, despite his lack of basketball experience, he's managed to acquire some decent shot mechanics along the way. 69% FT ain't that bad for a "Ben Wallace-type." I'm also encouraged by the relative success his fellow Frenchmen have had in the NBA (Batum, Pietrus, Parker, etc...). I take that to mean that maybe the French play and teach an "American style" of basketball and that his learning curve won't be that steep.

The negatives: these types of raw "enigma" players often fail to pan out in this league. (you mentioned Kwame, but See also : Saer Sene, Darko, PJ Ramos, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Ronnie James Diop...).

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 1:33 am
by Ruzious
Enigma is a puzzling word to use for Seraphin. :wink:

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 4:43 am
by doclinkin
He compares his own game to Nene who is physically similar, and expects he can find a role playing like Ben Wallace.

You hear reports suggesting he's still raw, but highlights show a few fairly advanced moves, good footwork, timing, body control. Seems like he was developing rapidly throughout the year, and apparently he has just won the Most Improved Player award for the Serie A French Pro League. Some of the scouting reports may be from early in the year, not considering his progression.

On this team, early on I suspect he'll play as a JJ Hickson type, spoonfed baskets close in on the post. But his baseline skills look like they'll translate, he knows how to use the opponent as a pivot point to get past them, knows how to use the rim to protect his shot.

Defensively he's playing on tippytoe, rebounding by leaping ability and reaching more than clearing space and proper technique. He'll get knocked off position by bigger players. But if he continues to learn this quickly then we're golden. I want to see how he develops after hitting the pro level weight rooms.

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 6:38 am
by Dat2U
J.J. Hickson was someone I thought of too. Hickson is more advanced in terms of a face up game but looking at the videos of Seraphin it looks as if they have similar explosiveness & finishing ability. For the 17th pick, getting a Hickson-type player is probably as good as one can expect.

I honestly also thought of Etan Thomas. Maybe Etan was a bit bulkier and slightly more floor-bound. Also Etan really never developed any reliable skills however and seemed to rely on faux toughness (flexing & posing) as much as he relied on maintaining a high energy/effort level.

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 8:37 am
by Ruzious
He's got a good 25 lbs or so on Hickson. Etan could have been a very good player if he didn't have hands of stone, wasn't injured 80% of the time, and couldn't pass to save his life... much like Jahidi White.

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 12:14 pm
by nate33
The best case scenario would be Ben Wallace with a post game, but I don't think Seraphin has that level of freakish rebounding ability. I think he'll be a lot like Emeka Okafor but without the midrange jumper. Hickson is a pretty good comparison for his stature and skillset, but Seraphin seems much more explosive.

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 12:31 pm
by Ruzious
nate33 wrote:The best case scenario would be Ben Wallace with a post game, but I don't think Seraphin has that level of freakish rebounding ability. I think he'll be a lot like Emeka Okafor but without the midrange jumper. Hickson is a pretty good comparison for his stature and skillset, but Seraphin seems much more explosive.

From what limited stuff I've seen, I think Okafor's the best comparison. But really I can't tell till I see him in the NBA.

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 2:09 pm
by doclinkin
I don't see Okafor. Meka's a short-armed undersized guy who made it to the NBA because he works harder on his body than anybody, which is one reason why his system breaks down with injuries, he's pushing hard year round. Seraphin won't have to work so hard to maintain that natural muscle mass, and should get even tougher, if not quite as bunjee-jumpy.

Physically KSera is a stunt double for Nene, with slightly longer arms (somewhat less broadchested, but then rhinocerii are less broad-chested than Nene). And if he develops as quickly as he's been coming on, it looks to me like ultimately that's the upside of his potential: a slightly more skilled Nene.

More explosive than Hickson? He's more groundbound than Hickson right now. Hickson's entire game seems to be alley oops or brachiating dunks off one quick move. But I suspect Seraphin is carrying a little babyfat, a little thicker around the torso, but that will trim up quick. I'm curious to see how he physically alters, and what techniques he can master with a little more work. I'd bet he would have improved quicker in France than here, but I'm not sad to have him.

Sure I can see his downside being Etan Thomas with better hands. But seems like he already has a more advanced postgame than that. He certainly shows better touch than Etan. His offensive highlights shows a few flips and finger-rolls with touch, even while in traffic. I hope he alters that to stuffing the ball in, with less faux-finesse, but John Wall with shout him out of it, I'd bet.

A better Etan Thomas is not a bad thing for that 17th pick either. If we get that from his rookie year, I'm well pleased and expect great things over the rest of his career.

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 3:05 pm
by Ruzious
Okafor's always been a long-armed shot-blocker. You're right that he's worked harder than everyone else, but that's why he's developed his body into roughly the same size that Sera's at. He was skinny as a rail in his frosh year at UConn. Looking at draftexpress, Okie's wingspan was measured at 7'4 and reach at 9'2.5 - roughly what Sera's probably at.

I hope he's a physical stunt double to Nene, but Nene's probably at least an inch taller. I don't think NBA fans in general realize how exceptional an athlete Nene is for his size. Either that, or Nene just has more bounce than usual whenever I watch Denver.

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 3:38 pm
by doclinkin
Meka's a 'long-armed' undersized guy. I agree. That was a slip of the brain if not the fingers.

Going back to look at the measurables:

Okafor: wing 7'4, reach 9'2.5, weight at age 22: 257 lbs.
Ksera: wing 7'3, reach 9'1, weight at age 20: 264 lbs. or 278 lbs. depending on which idjit has the calculator for the metric conversion
Nene: wing 7'4.5, reach 9'1", weight at age 20: 253 lbs.

Seraphin has the trunk that Nene has now, I'd forgotten that Nene came into the league sorta leaner than he is now. He always looks like a concrete bunker on stilts. Something looks wrong about how wide his chest is for his height. Nene measures short in part because he's a torso-neck, Seraphin may measure short due to terrible posture, or biophysical oddity: his head juts forward out of his chest, not upwards. I bet it's from hunching over his plate to shovel in the food. Either way though that inch in altitude that Nene has over Seraphin doesn't translate to the standing reach and fingertips.

They move similarly is how it reads to my eyes. Could be the soccer playing deal, both growing up in South American countries where futbol is king. Nene doesn't lumber around, never moves as hefty as he looks. Not plodding. Though it's tough for me to believe the 264 lbs figure for Seraphin, much less the 278. Maybe kid is just physically dense.

(Emeka by contrast though is one of those physical adonis types with all masses in proportion to each other. Balanced. Looks like his parents shouted at him to stand up straight at all times. He seems conscious of his posture. Poised, in the literal sense.).

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 4:43 pm
by Ruzious
Ksera's (excellent nickname, btw) weight must be attributable to the keester factor (as opposed to the John Kuester factor - Phil Fords' backcourtmate at UNC). Maybe he has the Rick Mahorn special. The proof will be in the proverbial... pudding? - when we finally get to see him in a Zard uni.

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 4:50 pm
by hands11
Really, we didn't already go over all this the " Kevin Seraphin" Thread ?

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1023277

Kwame's hands

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 5:26 pm
by Josh
Fax, Kwame's true deficit was the size of his heart, not his hands.

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 8:37 pm
by doclinkin
Ruzious wrote:Ksera's (excellent nickname, btw) weight must be attributable to the keester factor (as opposed to the John Kuester factor - Phil Fords' backcourtmate at UNC). Maybe he has the Rick Mahorn special. The proof will be in the proverbial... pudding? - when we finally get to see him in a Zard uni.


Yeah, one of my comparables was as a more good-natured Rick Mahorn, but it's been so long since I've seen Mahorn play, and it's not like there's a Mahorn highlight mix other than various fist fights (mostly from his coaching career in the WNBA).

Could be the rump factor, true. Dude does seem to have a large fundament. But at 278 lbs. that thing is made of depleted uranium.

Re: Who would you compare Kevin Seraphin to?

Posted: Mon Sep 6, 2010 9:40 pm
by Ruzious
doclinkin wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Ksera's (excellent nickname, btw) weight must be attributable to the keester factor (as opposed to the John Kuester factor - Phil Fords' backcourtmate at UNC). Maybe he has the Rick Mahorn special. The proof will be in the proverbial... pudding? - when we finally get to see him in a Zard uni.


Yeah, one of my comparables was as a more good-natured Rick Mahorn, but it's been so long since I've seen Mahorn play, and it's not like there's a Mahorn highlight mix other than various fist fights (mostly from his coaching career in the WNBA).

Could be the rump factor, true. Dude does seem to have a large fundament. But at 278 lbs. that thing is made of depleted uranium.

While Ksera is good, after that I've gotta call him Dub.

McNasty had quite the sizable backside, but yeah, I woud guess he didn't weigh in at more than 260 - at aboot the same height.