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I'm not sure if anyone is following the extraneous games around the league, but if you are, I guess this would be as good a place as any to discuss the oppositional forces that are banding together to defeat our young, courageous bunch .

I just finished watching the Celtics-76ers game, and the Celtics looked fantastic (as you would expect them to.) KG looked to have regained a step or two from last season, and Rondo looked like a truly elite pg. He ate Jrue Hollidays' lunch.

From Philly's end, I know it's early, but I'm sure there are more than a few people panicked about the performance of Evan Turner in the organization, basically since he was drafted. He honestly looks like he had no business being drafted at the top of the first round. Even the Celtics' announcers ripped the kid. I mean seriously, it's hard to express in words how atrocious the kid looked. There is time for the kid to improve obviously, but it's been a VERY inauspicious start for him thus far.

Evan Turner looks like crap. You expect to see a certain level of athleticism from a draft pick that high.

Wizards2Lottery wrote:Evan Turner looks like crap. You expect to see a certain level of athleticism from a draft pick that high.

We have a very limited sample size(one pre-season game), but it looks like the best rookies this year will be Wall, Cousins, Wesley Johnson and possibly Favors.

My question with Turner always surrounded his handle, more so than his athleticism. He was too turnover prone in college for my liking. But even I'm surprised by the level of suckiness he's displayed. But it still goes back to his handle. He can't create space or get past perimeter defenders with it at this stage. And for him to be successful or come close to his draft standing, he's got to able to create off the dribble and get to the rim.

Right now Turner is looking like a guy alot of us were wrong on. It's still early so I'm not ready to totally ready write him off yet but he's been a huge disappointment thus far.

Turner looked unathletic and generally crappy in summer league as well.

I didn't watch the Philly game but I note that Turner is averaging 12.5 FTA's per 36 minutes. He's also averaging 8.5 boards per 36 minutes (from the SF position). Is that just a fluke or is that a sign that he might have the athleticism to succeed once he improves his outside shot?

I didn't see the Philly game either, by the way. And, summer league and preseason games don't mean much either way. There was some predraft conversation among NBA scouts about what position Turner should play. I recall one saying he saw Turner as a PG -- that Turner reminded him of Gary Payton. I dunno about that.

The plan in Philly right now is to not start him so he can learn the off-guard position. He was good in college, and he'll probably be good as a pro once he figures out the NBA game.

Any way you look at it, Turner is a terrible fit on that Philly team. He and Iggy are redundant because they both need the ball in their hands and neither can catch-and-shoot with any accuracy. It was a criminally stupid move for Philly to take Turner at #2. They should have taken Favors or Cousins.

nate33 wrote:Any way you look at it, Turner is a terrible fit on that Philly team. He and Iggy are redundant because they both need the ball in their hands and neither can catch-and-shoot with any accuracy. It was a criminally stupid move for Philly to take Turner at #2. They should have taken Favors or Cousins.

I think the two main reasons for them not going big at #2 were their inability to move Brand's contract and Collins overestimating his ablity to take a poorly constructed roster and make it work. And what's really sad is that 3 years ago they looked like they were a PF away from being a contender. They've undergone multiple coaching and roster changes since then and now they are a complete mess.

Now that I think about it, Jamison signing with Philly a few years ago would probably have been the best thing for both franchises. Actually, it would have been best for the Clippers too since they would then have kept Brand and paired him with Baron Davis. And then Denver would have kept Camby, and might have had the size necessary to compete with LA in the playoffs, which might mean that Melo would have a title and wouldn't be halfway out the door in Denver, which might then have meant...

nate33 wrote:I didn't watch the Philly game but I note that Turner is averaging 12.5 FTA's per 36 minutes. He's also averaging 8.5 boards per 36 minutes (from the SF position). Is that just a fluke or is that a sign that he might have the athleticism to succeed once he improves his outside shot?

His athleticism is at best average, and perhaps a touch below that threshold (at least that's the way it looks relative to other high level players in the games I've watched; Summer League and the game against the Celtics.) He does seem to possess very good rebounding instincts for a guard, along with the requisite size necessary to make a dent in that dept.

He went to the line a number of times last night, but very little of it was because of his own penetration, and the majority of his trips were the product of the Celtics being over the limit at various stages of the game, and him benefiting from arbitrary contact at different points on the court.

The problem for the 76ers though is that he's a below average athlete without any great skill. He doesn't shoot that well, he doesn't break people down off the dribble at an elite level, his first step quickness is below average, his passing is only so-so, his vision is only decent, and if he's paying the two (which they clearly want him to do), his size advantage is generally nullified by the opposition. He has the look of a tweener, but one without an elite skill or physical gift to compensate for the lack of a true position.

DCsOwn wrote:The problem for the 76ers though is that he's a below average athlete without any great skill. He doesn't shoot that well, he doesn't break people down off the dribble at an elite level, his first step quickness is below average, his passing is only so-so, his vision is only decent, and if he's paying the two (which they clearly want him to do), his size advantage is generally nullified by the opposition. He has the look of a tweener, but one without an elite skill or physical gift to compensate for the lack of a true position.

So basically, now would be a good time for one of us to head to the Sixers board and start a thread titled "OMG does Turner totally suck LOLZ?"

Hoopalotta wrote:

DCsOwn wrote:The problem for the 76ers though is that he's a below average athlete without any great skill. He doesn't shoot that well, he doesn't break people down off the dribble at an elite level, his first step quickness is below average, his passing is only so-so, his vision is only decent, and if he's paying the two (which they clearly want him to do), his size advantage is generally nullified by the opposition. He has the look of a tweener, but one without an elite skill or physical gift to compensate for the lack of a true position.

So basically, now would be a good time for one of us to head to the Sixers board and start a thread titled "OMG does Turner totally suck LOLZ?"

I'm not going to do it. I have a friend that's from Philly that watched the game with me, and he was visibly depressed about his performance afterwards. It's not that the kid simply shot the ball poorly or made a bunch of mistakes with the ball, it's that the kid never once showed ANY flashes that might portend future greatness. Marquis Daniels looked physically superior to him. I honestly felt bad for him as a fan.

The Celtics announcer actually said, "I don't see it with him." I know some would say that it's foolhardy to make that conclusive a statement about a player after about three quarters of basketball (from the announcers perspective), but it would be hard to watch what transpired last night in that game and come away with any other impression, frankly.

Etan Thomas is -12 in 5 minutes of court time.

I, for one, am shocked.

Severn Hoos wrote:Etan Thomas is -12 in 5 minutes of court time.

I, for one, am shocked.

I am at least mildly surprised that Etan Thomas was on a basketball court for an entire five minutes of game time.

Cousins with 10/8/2 in 25 minutes--and he did that missing a few letters in his first and last names! Kid's got game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2010100710

nate33 wrote:I didn't watch the Philly game but I note that Turner is averaging 12.5 FTA's per 36 minutes. He's also averaging 8.5 boards per 36 minutes (from the SF position). Is that just a fluke or is that a sign that he might have the athleticism to succeed once he improves his outside shot?

Turner's rebounding is definitely not a fluke, nate33. He was a very strong rebounder in college.

Demarcus Cousins,

First game against Phoenix:
16 points, 16 boards, 8/13 FG, 5 turnovers, 5 fouls in 30 minutes

Game last night against the Clippers:
15 points, 3 boards, 5/14 FG, 3 turnovers, 6 fouls in just 21 minutes

Looks like he can manhandle lesser centers like Robin Lopez, but a real center like Kaman just abused him.


In other news, Blake Griffin posted 18 points and 13 boards in just 23 minutes on 7 of 7 shooting.

The foul issues are likely to be consistent throughout the year, too. I expect Cousins to average 25 minutes, and foul out more than any other player in the league this year. In fact, book those predictions!
=p

He obviously struggles with speed and athleticism, that's why he should stick to being a C purely and improve his foot work & defensive stances and what not. I couldn't help but laugh that Blake didn't miss a shot at all, ah well.

nate33 wrote:Demarcus Cousins,

First game against Phoenix:
16 points, 16 boards, 8/13 FG, 5 turnovers, 5 fouls in 30 minutes

Game last night against the Clippers:
15 points, 3 boards, 5/14 FG, 3 turnovers, 6 fouls in just 21 minutes

Looks like he can manhandle lesser centers like Robin Lopez, but a real center like Kaman just abused him.


In other news, Blake Griffin posted 18 points and 13 boards in just 23 minutes on 7 of 7 shooting.

Fantasy season hasn't even started and I'm scheming. I want to trade Troy Murphy for Griffin... I can get threes anywhere. Griffin probably caused Cousins to foul, getting to the ball quicker on the boards--didn't see the game, but just inferring.