doclinkin wrote: stilldropin20 wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Yeah, that said, Kev and fishercob have made it clear they left this site in part over a general downturn in the quality of debate (hands spamming the boards) and partisan disagreements in the politics thread that triggered distaste and soured their opinion of posters they otherwise respected in other contexts. The over the top attacks and the general schism in our country and downturn in civility and lack of accurate sourcing and you know-- trolling --drove away a few of our better and smarter posters for whom this political climate made it less acceptable to take lightheartedly disagreements between otherwise right-thinking adults. The political thread turned away from an honest earnest thoughtful debate into more bomb throwing and whatnot. Shrug.
you got the liberals in the politics thread to thank for that. I'm on solid ground with analytics and the science with almost everything i post in that thread. And when i'm off or wrong, its not by much. Their version of "truth" is so far out of whack, that the actual truth seems "whack."
The liberals have been drinking their own far fetched koolaid for decades. They now believe their own press releases. they are the ones that have divided the country. They want the same things I want. Equal and fair wealth distribution. But they dont know how to get it. They dont even know where the real wealth is hidden and espeically dont know how it is hidden. So instead they want their neighbors trans am or boat money. Cuz they can see tranny and the boat. Too effin lazy to go find the real money. And that's why i post in that thread.
Disagree wholeheartedly. On both accounts. Motivation of liberals and when the politics thread changed and what has polarized our country. But I mostly don't post in that thread because people tend to be doing exactly that bull ^^^^ lobbing monkey dung instead of earnestly trying to understand each others perspective and trying to find middle ground or solutions. Frankly as much as I support the helloutta you and held my own protest for them assassinating your online persona, I'd have more to say to you in this thread than on there. There you are a billion percent part of the problem. Clowning and trolling and inciting disagreement for your own jollies. It's an act, I suspect you're not this much of an @ss in real life. I get the feeling we'd get along fine, though I'm a born socialist who plays wargames and studies strategy/tactics, and you may have reallife fought your way to a im-a get-mine capitalist mindset from whatever fictionalized beginning you got.
But in that thread its tougher to let things linger, ****, its real life consequences for people having dangerously disparate political opinions. Somebody profits by the schism in our country and it likely isn't most of us message board mopes.
im down with this. I think we are both well groomed self taught strategists. I know a thinker when i see him. We may have different styles but i think we are quite similar. If their is anyone on realgm that I would have a beer with first, it would be you. we can strategize wealth redistribution in this thread and leave the bickering for the other thread. <--believe it or not there is a personal "purpose" for the bickering besides "just throwing monkey dong"...because certainly you understand that true and real socialism is nothing less than an outright war on the wealthy elites. And that war will be very confusing and fought on every imaginable front you can possibly consider.
So yeah...You kind of nailed my personal approach...something i have been very transparent about. I've got NO PROBLEM with Socialists. I dont. Other than you cant be a globalists and a socialist. Not because it isnt "ideal"...but because its hard enough to make it work in one country or nation state let alone the globe...adn the entire point is to redistribute wealth. That's the whole purpose. So in that regard I too am a socialists at heart or of some order<--BUT
only if we actually redistribute the wealth of the elite.
If we are just taking money from the upper middle class to give to the poor then count me out. Thats bull crap socialism. Not even socialism. Its a joke. A trick. A mind phuck that only allows the elite to hoard even more wealth. Now if you want to seize the wealth of the elite?? Remove all of their family trust, non-profit, foundation carve outs and loopholes???...and NOT allow them to hide their wealth overseas???? And if by socialism you mean that for the most part we are all born on some type of level playing field (aside from the genetic (semi) lottery)....if thats what you mean????...and you are ready to implement a real death tax at 80% or higher??? Then count me in. I will die on that hill.
1. We must make corporations realize income each and every year. (corps cant be allowed to park money in corporate accounts...or re-invest it...or hide it in R n D) If the corp is owned by share holders then force them to pay dividends...ALL INCOME must be realized each and every year and then taxed!
2. I'm fine with 21% corp tax rate...but make that the rate across the board...including small businesses. Allow mom and pop to incorporate their 401K's and pay the same 21% rate and force them to realize that income on a yearly basis as well.
3. Force any corporations selling products or manufacturing product or purchasing products in the US to pay taxes in the US. IF global then prorate those taxes. You sell half of your inventory here in the US? Pay half your taxes here(or you cant do business here). Its that simple of a fix. <--non compliant companies get hit with 25% tariffs on the way in or on the way out. SO they would actually save money to register their headquarters here and pay taxes here.
^^^ do those 3 things and you will triple-quadruple the annual federal income. We would go from taking in about 3 trillion to taking in about 9 trillion. overnight.
Then implement an 80% death tax to all wealth...and there you have it...It might take 20-70 years but all the current founders or successive owners of all trust and foundations will die off then you are looking at another 50-80 trillion in "tax dollars " over the next 20-70 years.
At that point You now have the money to do anything. medicare for all. free college. etc etc. etc
But the elites are not going down with out a fight. They will move their wealth overseas and be willing to induce WW3 to keep it.
^^but that is how you "get it." 1. force everyone to realize all income every year. 2. Tax that income. 3. Death tax.I hedge
between what you describe as a "capitalist..Imma get mine" and a full throated socialist because the elites have been tricking the middle class in to giving up the few beans they have to the poor and working poor instead of giving up their own wealth for the past 2 centuries.
We didn't have this issue 300 years ago. Empires toppled! and the wealth was redistributed. But the invention of the stock market and banking(yes! those same phucking bankers!!) system has created a paper trail...I mean you cant even loot a phucking mansion or castle in a time of war and keep a painting on the wall anymore!! These phuckers cornered the market on art for christ phucking sakes!! Paid out borderline slave wages to artists hundreds of years ago and get to pass down that art...now worth millions!! Nevermind that they played a large hand in deciding which art was more valuable than other pieces. National registries and paper trails have been created to make it impossible to revolt and loot even a painting on the wall!!! (funny how "they" got that "one" ("worked out)" too over the past couple centuries <--by of course, the "bankers!!"
). Keep in mind that the bankers also became the insurance companies. And the "news" sources.
So the "strategy" must:
1. understand and fully appreciate that the wealthy elites are not going to allow the congress to pass tax laws to confiscate their wealth. Bribes, payoffs, assassinations. Including thrusting foreign governments to go to war with the US. They will use every trick in the book. But that is almost nothing to the fear mongering they will drum up in "their" media. They elites will use the entire catalogue of media outlets. This will be the one time Fox and CNN fully agree and will literally assassinate any and all politicians attempting to pass a tax code like this every single day in the media. When they are done those politicians will wish they were dead. Obviously they will go after the president as well if this even hits his desk.
2. even if we can pull it off and change the tax code (laws), they will remove their wealth from the US banking system. only their land can be appraised and taxed (which is a solid start)...which will induce a massive sell off of all land where the founder of the trust is old(er).
3. This will be the on issue where the Farmers will fight like hell side by side with NY elites. Some of which are already one in the same in the case of corporately owned farms. Koch brothers et al.
4. upper middle class who has a decent nest egg will also fight with the elites. Tricked into Thinking their trans am and the $100K in equity on the house is worth fighting for.
^^^thats just a taste of what you are up against. You ready for this? That's why i hedge as a capitalist.
I dont believe the american people have the stomach for this fight. Nor the intellect. Nor the stamina. Nor the focus. I cant even get the 7 fools in the politics thread to understand the basic concept that all inequality is born of wealth inequality. I'd peg your critical mass at around 10,000,000 active and involved us citizens.
EDIT to add: I think John Lennon summed up my stance perfectly:
You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world...
"but if you want money for (originally from) people with minds that hate,
all i can tell you brother is you're gonna have to wait"
I'd say that John lennon understood the people well. And the wealthy elite have us nailed. They are centuries ahead of us. If not a millennia. They have been paying us off with jobs, or outright bribing us, even torturing us for hundreds of years. They and are not afraid to kill us off en masse nor starve us to death. They have the means and they know how to do it. They have us pegged. They know our breaking points. And they have passed on this knowledge to the younger caretakers of their wealth. The common everyday man or woman does NOT know how to fight on these terms...not over money. And all we have passed on is confusion, anger and hatred. We have no true North. They know their North which is to keep hoarding wealth and they stick to it.