Game Thread: Wizards vs Raptors (11/16/10)

[pineappleheadindc]

______________________

___2-6 (5th SE Div/13th East)__________________________2-8 (5th ATL div/15th East)



Well, *SOMEBODY* has to win this game.

YOUR Washington Wizards come off of a costly loss in Chi-town, losing - to varying degrees - Yi Jianlian, Andray Blatche and John Wall to injury. Yi looks to be out for a while with a bone bruse. Blatche has been nursing a sore knee and Wall sparined a foot. Don't know if they're going to play, but for the purposes of this game thead, we'll assume they are playing.

Wizards G Gilbert Arenas had his best game of the season, dropping 30 on the Bulls on 11-22 shooting and a torrid 7-10 from behind the 3 point line.

The Raptors arrive in our nation's capitol having split on their recent Flordia swing, besting the Orlando Magic on Friday, but losing to Miami on the end of a back-to-back by nine.

This represents the front end of a back-to-back for the Wiz kids. After the game, they fly into Boston for a date with the Cs.

__________________________

___________John Wall__________________________Jarrett Jack
_____18.1 ppg, 9.8 apg, 4.0 rpg____________11.9 ppg, 4.4 apg, 3.6 rpg


__________________________

___________Kirk Hinrich______________________DeMar DeRozan
_____11.0 ppg, 4.6 apg, 2.9 rpg____________13.9 ppg, 1.5 apg, 3.6 rpg


__________________________

___________Al Thornton______________________Sonny Weems
_____13.0 ppg, 5.5 rpt, 1.1 apg____________12.7 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.1 apg


__________________________

___.______Andray Blatche______________________Reggie Evans
_____16.4 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 1.9 apg_____________2.2 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 1.3 apg


__________________________

___.______JaVale McGee______________________Andrea Bargnani
_____7.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 2.9 bpg______________20.5 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.9 bpg


INJURY NOTES

1) Raptors SF Linas Kleiza is day-to-day (achilles). If he returns to the starting line-up, he'll take Sonny Weems place.

2) Wizards F/C Yi Jianlian suffered a bone bruise versus the Bulls on Saturday night. Don't know if he'll be available.

3) Wizards F/C Andray Blatch (knee) was hindering him during the Bulls game. As I write this, I assume he's day-to-day but think he'll at least try to go.

4) Wizards PG John Wall suffered a sprained foot vs Chicago. But, like Blatche, would guess that he'll at least try to play.

5) Wizards SF Josh Howard still rehabbing his knee following surgery. He's doing 3 on 3 and 5 on 5 work in practice. Assume he'll be back in December.

6) Wizards F Al Thornton had a stomach ailment over the weekend. It prevented him from playing a full game on Friday night vs Charlotte and he had a sub-par game versus the Bulls on Saturday. Would hope and assume he'll be better for this game.

THE ONE TO WATCH


Wizards G Gilbert Arenas

Mercurial Wizards G Gilbert Arenas had a huge game versus Chicago on Saturday night, dropping 30 points on 11-22 shooting and an eye-opening 7-10 beyond the arc. Watch to see if Gilbert can find his rhythm at home.

----------------------------------------------------------

-- Can YOUR Washington Wizards bounce back to take a W from the Bosh-less Raptors?

-- Who among the walking wounded (Yi, Blatche, Wall, Thornton) will be able to play at a high level?

-- Will we see more of rookie F Trevor Booker?

-- Just how many "Amazingly Sucky" threads can one board have?

Post your thoughts, opinions, and comments here:

WHAT: Washington Wizards vs Toronto Raptors

WHERE: Verizon Center -- Washington, DC

WHEN: Tuesday, November 16 - 7:00 p.m. EST

TV: Comcast SportsNet, NBA League Pass

RADIO & STREAMING AUDIO: 106.7 The Fan

[montestewart]

Wizards fan: We'll beat that soft, jump shooting team.
Raptors fan: Wait a minute, that's my line.

[Scabs304]

Pine thanks for making the game thread. I thought I was going to have to make another subpar one. I'm going to the next three home games. I'm rather excited since I think we can and should win all 3. If Arenas is back to playing like he did against the Bulls should be good games.

[dlts20]

Time for Gil to start. He better start or Flip is garbage. Gil also needs to get over his 2 mental hurdles of playing at home & leaping hard at the rim, espically at home. I think starting him gives him the best chance of getting past those 2 hurdles

[Wizards2Lottery]

All hope is lost if our beg men can't look tough against Bargnani. Reggie Evans is going to out rebound our entire team.

We will still win.

[Jimmy Recard]

Must win game...we lose this we drop to 2-7. We have to beat mediocre teams like Toronto if we have any hope making the playoffs, especially playing at home. Here's hoping Gilbert gets his first start of the season (at Kirk's expense, not Wall's, hope the sprain isn't too serious).

[miller31time]

Whether Wall plays or not, I think we should take this game. Arenas seems to have gotten his confidence back. Not only was he absolutely on fire on Saturday (which you can't count on consistently) but he was making drives to the hoop with relative ease. He just looked good, plain and simple.

If Gilbert is back, then he's better than anyone on the Raptors roster.

[closg00]

The Raps beat Orlando, just saying.

[sortpar]

We have to beat mediocre teams like Toronto if we have any hope making the playoffs, especially playing at home.

The Raptors aren't a mediocre team. I believe you need a better record than 2-8 to even be considered a mediocre team.

mediocre [ˌmiːdɪˈəʊkə ˈmiːdɪˌəʊkə]

[via French from Latin mediocris moderate, literally: halfway up the mountain, from medius middle + ocris stony mountain]

[nate33]

Time for Gil to start. He better start or Flip is garbage. Gil also needs to get over his 2 mental hurdles of playing at home & leaping hard at the rim, espically at home. I think starting him gives him the best chance of getting past those 2 hurdles

I don't mind Gil coming off the bench. Last game, it was obvious that Gil really recaptured his mojo once he had the opportunity to handle the ball a lot. In other words, Gil is at his best when John Wall isn't in the game. (I don't think that's necessarily a permanment phenomenon, but it's the case now since Gil is still trying to find his rhythm.)

So we definitely want Gil in the game when Wall is out. We also want Gil in the game during crunch time. That means Gil must play in the middle of each half, and at the end of each half. If we're also trying to keep Gil's minutes down to about 30 or so, then the solution is to bring him off the bench at the 9 minute mark in the 1st and 3rd and have him play the final 15 minutes of each half.

I'm going to go "hands11" on you and give you a breakdown of the guard rotation:

First 9 minutes of half: JW/KH
Middle 6 minutes of half: GA/KH
Last 9 minutes of half: JW/GA

That gives Gil and HInrich 30 minutes each, and Wall gets 36. You can throw in Nick Young in place of Hinrich if there is a size problem or if Young is hot that night.

[dlts20]

Time for Gil to start. He better start or Flip is garbage. Gil also needs to get over his 2 mental hurdles of playing at home & leaping hard at the rim, espically at home. I think starting him gives him the best chance of getting past those 2 hurdles

I don't mind Gil coming off the bench. Last game, it was obvious that Gil really recaptured his mojo once he had the opportunity to handle the ball a lot. In other words, Gil is at his best when John Wall isn't in the game. (I don't think that's necessarily a permanment phenomenon, but it's the case now since Gil is still trying to find his rhythm.)

So we definitely want Gil in the game when Wall is out. We also want Gil in the game during crunch time. That means Gil must play in the middle of each half, and at the end of each half. If we're also trying to keep Gil's minutes down to about 30 or so, then the solution is to bring him off the bench at the 9 minute mark in the 1st and 3rd and have him play the final 15 minutes of each half.

I'm going to go "hands11" on you and give you a breakdown of the guard rotation:

First 9 minutes of half: JW/KH
Middle 6 minutes of half: GA/KH
Last 9 minutes of half: JW/GA

That gives Gil and HInrich 30 minutes each, and Wall gets 36. You can throw in Nick Young in place of Hinrich if there is a size problem or if Young is hot that night.

alot of people keep saying that but what is that really based off of? They havent really gotten to play together. In the Preseason they looked fine. I think there is more than enough touches for them both to have the ball in there hands when they are in together, as long as Kirk is out. I said in the Preseason that is the biggest reason why I hate that small 3 guard lineup because you have even another ball handler on the floor. With just Wall & Gil, they both can have the ball in there hands enough. Shoot, sometimes Wall looks lost in the halfcourt and wants to give it up. Gil will be fine with him. Im moreso just worried about his confidence at home and him attacking the rim hard. He only has to do it once to get it back and I think starting him will speed that up.

Lets say you and the others are right though. That maybe what Flip is thinking and I still totally disagree. The #1 thing people loved about our team is the Gil-Wall tandem and we are losing. Meaning, if its about Gil & Wall together then you start it asap. I could see holding off if we were winning but were losing so what is it hurting to do it now? Both guys have looked great at times and both guys have been very inconsistent so what are we holding off on? When they are struggling, they actually look like they need eachother. Like Gil looks like he needs Wall to get him some easier looks when his shot is off and Wall needs Gil's scoring in the halfcourt when he's struggling to run the O. Bottom line is that if we were winning then you could say those things but we are losing so you start the Wall-Gil process and worry about problems after that.

I also totally 100% disagree about the 9min mark thing. Gil is not a bench player. When he came back with EJ and was coming off the bench he played well but we brought him in early. Its the same thing with guys like Ginobli. You dont bring them in that late like they are some role player. Everyone knows they are real starters who are just doing this for the team. You bring Gil off that late and you are asking for him to get cold & nervous. Ive been saying it every game. Thats another reason why I think he looked good against the Bulls. We brought him in earlier because the Offense was struggling. I also think minutes can be overrated. Id rather have a guy play 40 easy minutes than 30 hard minutes. I think he can start & play 30-36mpg right now. He's looking less fatigued every single game and I think he wont have to do as much in the starting group so you could play him more since it will be an easier set of minutes

[nate33]

I also totally 100% disagree about the 9min mark thing. Gil is not a bench player. When he came back with EJ and was coming off the bench he played well but we brought him in early. Its the same thing with guys like Ginobli. You dont bring them in that late like they are some role player. Everyone knows they are real starters who are just doing this for the team. You bring Gil off that late and you are asking for him to get cold & nervous. Ive been saying it every game. Thats another reason why I think he looked good against the Bulls. We brought him in earlier because the Offense was struggling. I also think minutes can be overrated. Id rather have a guy play 40 easy minutes than 30 hard minutes. I think he can start & play 30-36mpg right now. He's looking less fatigued every single game and I think he wont have to do as much in the starting group so you could play him more since it will be an easier set of minutes

I agree that Arenas can also play well with Wall. I'm just saying that, for now, he's a little better without Wall. There's nothing wrong with playing him alongside Wall, but to get the most out of him, it makes sense to make sure we have him in the game during all the minutes that Wall is out. Wall is definitely a starter, ergo, Arenas must play during the middle portion of each half.

I'm not hell bent on the 9 minute mark. It was my impression that they we're trying to keep Gil's minutes down under 30. Certainly, if he can log more minutes, then we can bring him in at the 6 or 7 minute mark. Either way, the goal is to bring him in, and then leave him in the game so his knee doesn't tighten up.

It seems ideal to me. You bring Arenas in and have Wall come out at that point or shortly thereafter. Arenas gets to play 6 or so minutes as the primary ball-handler to get his rhythm. Then Wall comes back in and a warmed-up Arenas slides over to SG. Hinrich rides the pine in the last 9 minutes of each half, unless Wall or Arenas are in foul trouble or they're having a real bad game. HInrich is also available to come in and play SF in a 3-guard lineup down the stretch (which is something that should only be used for short stretches late in games when the matchups are right). Finally, if we're going to have Arenas play 15-consecutive minutes in a half, it's easier to play the last 15 minutes rather than the first 15 minutes because there's more play stoppages late in games due to timeouts and free throws.

[GilArenas88]

Great game thread pine, I'm going to have to learn how to do one these sooner or latter. In my whole tenure here I haven't made a single one. In regards to the game, I'd definately be dissapointed to not come away with a win, even with some hobbled players. Regardless we'll need Gil to have consecutive good performances to help compensate for the injuries, Toronto seems to be a good opponent for that.

I may be one of the few people who believes this on the board, always the Wizard optimist, but I think we have an outside chance of making the playoffs. It's still early in the season, but to obtain that goal, we have to defend our home court against teams like Toronto. Maybe the playoffs are a pipe-dream, but it would be great for our youngsters to get some expierence, even if its a brutal sweep by a conference champion. With Arenas shaping back into form, a returning Howard and developement from some of the young guys, I'll remain cautiously optimistic, blindly or not. Oh and a trade for a vet bigman wouldn't hurt EG.

[FAH1223]

our first blowout win of the year

[dlts20]

Great game thread pine, I'm going to have to learn how to do one these sooner or latter. In my whole tenure here I haven't made a single one. In regards to the game, I'd definately be dissapointed to not come away with a win, even with some hobbled players. Regardless we'll need Gil to have consecutive good performances to help compensate for the injuries, Toronto seems to be a good opponent for that.

I may be one of the few people who believes this on the board, always the Wizard optimist, but I think we have an outside chance of making the playoffs. It's still early in the season, but to obtain that goal, we have to defend our home court against teams like Toronto. Maybe the playoffs are a pipe-dream, but it would be great for our youngsters to get some expierence, even if its a brutal sweep by a conference champion. With Arenas shaping back into form, a returning Howard and developement from some of the young guys, I'll remain cautiously optimistic, blindly or not. Oh and a trade for a vet bigman wouldn't hurt EG.

youre not the only one. I even have my own optimist thread. I think we will be fine if we get everyone healthy

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

If the Wizards want to make the playoffs this year, Gilbert needs to build on the Chicago game and play as if he is the first option on offense. Wall is amazing in the open court, but in the half court he seems to just stand around.

[pineappleheadindc]

The Wizards just tweeted that:

1) Andray is playing tomorrow.

2) Yi and Wall are day-to-day.

3) If Wall is available, he will start tomorrow.

[GilArenas88]

I don't mind Gil coming off the bench for the next few games. Eventually, hopefully soon, Flip will give Arenas the starting nod over Hinrich. Hinrich is a descent player, although he does look outmatched often, but even a heavy Arenas is 10 times the player Hinrich ever was.

Hinrich to me is not best used as a starter, at this point of his career I think we'd benefit best as a team if he played 20-25 minutes a night. Not only would that limit the wear on his aging body, it would also probably allow him to play with greater effectiveness. Right now he's playing 36+ minutes a night, to me that's a problem.

I think both Nick Young and Cartier Martin deserve some of Hinrich’s minutes. Nick hasn't been all that bad this season, if anything he looked most lost the first couple games. He is shooting a solid 45% from the field, 40% from the arc and albeit limited attempts, 7-7 from the stripe. Most importantly I think he's been adequate on defense and has done a better job rebounding and moving without the ball. To me he deserves to play more than 14 minutes a game, especially with Hinrich logging almost 37 minutes a night.

Martin has done nothing wrong to warrant getting a DNP in three of the last four games. All three games he failed to get any playing time were losses, so it couldn't have hurt to give him a look. To pile on even more, the last two games were both losses and both DNPs for Martin. These were games where Thornton was hobbled and pretty ineffective, those games would have been perfect opportunities to give Martin some burn.

If Flip wants to play the "I'll play players that produce" card, than he better stick to his words. To his credit he did give Trevor Booker some good burn in a game that was still somewhat undecided, and he should to continue to do it with all the players. To go along with this he can’t sit players who are producing because he has his favorites.

[GilArenas88]

McGee in 20 minutes against Chicago accumulated 6 points, 5 rebounds (2 defensive; three offensive) 4 blocks, 0 personal fouls and only one turnover. Granted Hilton Armstrong gave us 8 points (all but two being in the first quarter, the last two were garbage points he made a field goal with one second left, game out of reach), 10 rebounds (6 offensive boards, many being his own missed shots), 3 personal fouls off the bench (positive at least two of them led to free throws), but why does that warrant to only playing Javale only 20 minutes. Let’s be serious Armstrong is a vet minimum stop gate player at center, and his almost solid double-double off the bench in 18 minutes, appears to be a classic case in of stats not telling the whole story. Hell, let’s say Armstrong played great, you can continue to play him, but why not alongside McGee. Why is it that our last few coaches here refuse to ever play big? Blatche wasn’t playing good and was hobbled by injury, what’s wrong with a lineup of McGee, Armstrong, Booker or Thornton and some combination of Arenas, Wall, Young, or even Hinrich in the backcourt. Instead we go with the undersized Armstrong and Booker down the critical stretch and get killed. This isn’t just a one game problem either.

Yes we all know Javale has much to learn on defense, but except for a game or two from Yi and a few spots from Armstrong, they’ve been just as bad, if not worse. Yet those two seem to always get the benefit of the doubt, especially at the end of games. We all know Flip dogged Javale down the stretch in the Atlanta game, Javale had posted 7 blocks already, and we ended up getting punished in the paint by Atlanta when we could have won the game. Did McGee ever get an apology from Flip, like Thornton did, about not being played down the stretch in a game he had been playing good? Of course he didn’t.

I’m trying to make two points, first Javale has the potential to become a solid piece to our rebuilding process, you have to let him learn and play through mistakes, and give him the consistent minutes in order to establish a rhythm. He’s not going to get any better being pulled at every mistake, not matter how bad the mistake, it’s called “nurturing” Flip. My second point is that Flip seems to play favorites and has especially short leashes with many of the young players, and it needs to stop. Flip needs to have a better balance of foresight, patience, accountability, flexibility and being a teacher. This roster is what it is, a roster filled with young players still learning to play professional basketball. It looks like that for a reason, the reason being to rebuild, and build from within. We can’t hope to do that if someone is going to play favorites.

[Higga]

Yeah I don't get why Flip seems to hate McGee. None of our big men can defend worth a damn and they're all dumb or soft(or both). But at least McGee can block shots and you see a lot of times guys miss layups just due to McGee's presence. Armstrong and Yi are just terrible.