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The Amazingly Suck Theodore Leonsis Thread

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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1621 » by payitforward » Sat Jun 1, 2019 3:07 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:Just listened to the whole Leonsis sit down
gravytrain24 wrote:So why did he think this way was acceptable for so many years when what he was doing with the caps actually provided consistent results. I can't wait to listen to this on the drive home.

Well in Ted's view, starting from when he took over in 2010 the rebuild was on track and nothing Ernie did really set off any alarm bells until these past few seasons when they started to lose. At least that's what I gathered from his comments in the interview.

Tbf if we're just isolating the Leonsis-era Wizards, he kind of has a point. Ernie did manage to get Arenas off the books and successfully initiate the rebuild (granted landing Wall at #1 was a stroke of luck), under his watch they matured into a viable playoff team with a promising young core, local TV ratings were booming , and as recently as 2017 it seemed like they were just 1-2 pieces away from contention. You could see how in the eyes of a non-basketball mind like Leonsis , the team wasn't "failing" per se up until these last two years.

But NBA junkies like those of us on RealGM who get deep into the finer points of basketball were forecasting years ago that this team had shallow depth and poor coaching, and the lack of draft picks would eventually catch up to them.

Ernie had an excellent run from 2010 through early 2011 -- I can't imagine it having been any better. He picked up Kirk Hinrichs & a R1 pick (#17, which he used to take Kevin Seraphin) for nothing, went from #8 to #1 in R1 via the ping pong balls, traded up from #30 to #23 to get Trevor Booker, & dumped Gilbert for Rashard Lewis. Then, a few months later, he traded Hinrichs & Hilton Armstrong to the Hawks for a guy who'd been a R1 pick a few months earlier (Jordan Crawford) & the Hawks 2011 R1 pick (wound up being #18).

Frankly, that was incredible work. Unfortunately, the incredible work ended right after it had begun. After 1 year of the Leonsis era in other words. Thereafter, Ernie Grunfeld did nothing, absolutely nothing else, good during the Leonsis era. Between the Okariza trade, the failure to deal Crawford when he had some value, & the 2011 draft fiasco he essentially threw away the entire rebuild.

I don't mean that nothing he did turned out well (though not much did) but that what turned out well either required no skill (picking Beal @#3 in '12), or was sub-optimal by a lot (picking Sato @#32 that year, while Draymond Green, Jae Crowder, Khris Middleton & Will Barton were on the board -- & then we never saw Sato here for four long seasons).

Most of what he did was worse: picking Otto then letting him go for essentially zero return, giving assets to trade up for GR who washed out quickly), giving assets for an expiring salary (Gortat), giving assets to trade up for Oubre then getting nothing for him, signing a bunch of negative value FAs, etc. etc. etc.

He did sign Paul Pierce for one season. That was fun.

& then came the complete disaster -- trading a lottery pick for Kieff, the '16 off-season, the idiotic give away of our '17 draft, turning the excellent opportunities presented by the '18 draft into 1 promising player, throwing away more R2 picks, etc.

So, no, I'm sorry, even isolating the last 9 years, Ted has no point. 1 productive year followed by 8 years that he turned into absolute zero, or as close as you can get. & Ted is right -- he, not Ernie, is the one to blame.
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1622 » by payitforward » Sat Jun 1, 2019 3:15 pm

nate33 wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:Well in Ted's view, starting from when he took over in 2010 the rebuild was on track and nothing Ernie did really set off any alarm bells until these past few seasons when they started to lose. At least that's what I gathered from his comments in the interview.

Tbf if we're just isolating the Leonsis-era Wizards, he kind of has a point. Ernie did manage to get Arenas off the books and successfully initiate the rebuild (granted landing Wall at #1 was a stroke of luck), under his watch they matured into a viable playoff team with a promising young core, local TV ratings were booming , and as recently as 2017 it seemed like they were just 1-2 pieces away from contention. You could see how in the eyes of a non-basketball mind like Leonsis , the team wasn't "failing" per se up until these last two years.

What's frustrating is that the team won 49 games in 2017 almost solely due to the exploits of the Wall, Beal and Porter. Wall and Beal were no brainer picks that EG deserves no credit for. The only pick where EG deserved any credit was Porter. But at the same time, that 49-win team was saddled with a horrible supporting cast because EG squandered asset after asset over the years. We can run down the list: the Vesely draft, the Mahinmi signing, sacrificing a pick to clean up the mess after the Nicholson signing, etc. etc.

So the one positive in EG's tenure on Ted was the Porter draft. Nearly every other move was a disaster. Yet Ted believed EG was doing a good job.

I'm not even willing to sign off on his picking Porter #3 in 2013 as requiring any great savvy or earning him any great positive credit. Otto was the default #3 that year, a local kid, etc. Donald Duck would have picked Otto Porter #3 if he'd been the Wizards GM that year.
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1623 » by payitforward » Sat Jun 1, 2019 3:39 pm

nate33 wrote:...Ted believed EG was doing a good job.

Actually, I think Ted mostly believed that he, Ted, was doing a good job.

I'm pretty sure that he thought our signing Pierce & then starting the 2014-15 season by going 19-6 was the proof positive that he knew what he was doing. Of course, what drove that start was not Pierce (though he played well) but the late Rasual Butler's brief imitation of an all star. But, I'm pretty sure that was what convinced Ted that he was really good at this, he really knew what he was doing.

We went 27-30 the rest of the season, but Ted was already convinced.

We went 41-41 the next season, but Ted knew that trading for Markieff Morris was going to pan out.

We started 19-19 the following season, but Ted knew it was an illusion.

Then we had an incredible run of 27-9 -- now Ted knew for sure how smart he was!!

The last 7 games of that season & the 2017-18 season, we went 46-43. Ted thought nothing of it. Injuries, etc.... All was well. Wasn't great, but, hey, we made the playoffs, right? Where we went 2-4 & got unceremoniously bounced.

& then... 32-50.

So, starting 4.3 years into a rebuild, having made a #1, a #2, a #3 & a #6 pick & 7 other draft picks, & having signed an old but still class-A FA, we proceeded to go 87-90 over a more than 2 year period. & in the last 2 seasons we've gone 75-89.

In between those 2 time periods, we had a 27-9 run, however. & that was how Ted knew how smart he was & that everything was going well.
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1624 » by FAH1223 » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:44 pm

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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1625 » by payitforward » Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:57 am

I'm pretty sure there are already a lot of them who are smarter & more thoughtful than Ted Leonsis.
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1626 » by Silvie Lysandra » Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:15 am

god i was so right about Ted, but for the wrong reasons (for example, while Shanny did make the right moves in blowing up the Vinny era, I didn't know that Bruce was just as bad, and I didn't expect Mike Shanahan to leave the best quarterback prospect since Elway on FedEx Field to die on a bum knee). Ted just never really gave a **** about fixing the team
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1627 » by queridiculo » Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:44 am

queridiculo wrote:
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[


FYI, this is the original quote.

"It's just math." :roll:
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1628 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:40 pm

queridiculo wrote:
queridiculo wrote:
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[


FYI, this is the original quote.

"It's just math." :roll:


Amazing, but he doesn’t seem to even understand what ‘it’s just math’ means.

Total poser. Not very smart.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1629 » by FAH1223 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 2:27 am

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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1630 » by Eli Babak » Fri Apr 2, 2021 11:53 am

"We shall do everything we can together as a franchise to make the @WashWizards a championship winner together."

...hopefully that starts with firing all the front office & coaching staff and actually changing the culture. Ernie's cancer cells are still there. Ted also has to stfu and just be the guy who writes paychecks.

But you know what's gonna happen. Ujiri just trolls and either stays in Toronto or goes somewhere else. Ted doesn't care and makes Tommy the president of basketball operations. Brooks is not retained, but they will just sign some old fart who has a decent CV.

Sorry about negativity. Ted is just an ass.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1631 » by payitforward » Fri Apr 2, 2021 1:48 pm

It's not that Ted is an ass. It's that Ted is convinced that he's really smart.

Why does Ted think he's really smart? Because Ted is a billionaire.

How did Ted become a billionaire? AOL, obviously.

But, Ted didn't start AOL. He happened to meet Steve Case, the guy who did start AOL.

Steve Case is really smart. Ted Leonsis was just lucky -- & I'm sure he did an outstanding job running the operations of AOL. But, the fact is that Ted Leonsis has never started a major business of any kind.

AOL was in the right place as the first generation of the world wide web took off. In one of the most extraordinarily stupid deals in the history of business, Time Warner essentially gave themselves to AOL in a merger. I'm sure Ted was central to the negotiation of that deal -- surely his greatest business triumph.

In short, the enormous wind that was the dot com boom blew Ted Leonsis high up to the top of the money tree. Ted was smart enough to go along for the ride -- give him that.

But, what he thinks is that he got to the top of the money tree, because he knows how to fly. IOW, he thinks he's really smart. Yet, since he cashed out of AOL, Ted hasn't made a nickel. Every business he's started or been in on starting -- from GroupOn to Snag Films to all the rest of them -- has failed.

Now... Monumental Sports & Entertainment doesn't look like it will fail, however. It's a conventional business based on a traditionally valuable entity -- sports franchises -- money machines which are always owned by guys who are already rich. Every single owner of a sports franchise was already rich when he acquired it.

& one of the franchises he bought won a title. Now, I'm not a hockey fan, so I can't comment on Ted's role in putting together a team capable of that success.

But, I am a life-long NBA fan & can tell you that he's done about as bad a job as possible with the Washington Wizards. Nor do you have to be much of a fan to understand that a losing record over a period of more than a dozen years which culminates in a terrible team constitutes a bad job.

Ted Leonsis is said to be a very nice guy, & I don't doubt it for a minute. He's said to be generous, thoughtful, & down to earth. I'm sure he's all those things. But, he has made a colossal mess of the Washington Wizards, and -- according to the tweet above -- he plans to keep working at it.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1632 » by Silvie Lysandra » Fri Apr 2, 2021 6:11 pm

payitforward wrote:In short, the enormous wind that was the dot com boom blew Ted Leonsis high up to the top of the money tree. Ted was smart enough to go along for the ride -- give him that.

But, what he thinks is that he got to the top of the money tree, because he knows how to fly. IOW, he thinks he's really smart. Yet, since he cashed out of AOL, Ted hasn't made a nickel. Every business he's started or been in on starting -- from GroupOn to Snag Films to all the rest of them -- has failed.


This is *exactly* the problem with Dan Snyder, btw. Dan Snyder's "success" prior to buying the WFT is based entirely on the dot-com boom.

I'm pretty sure Cuban is the only dot-com boom guy to be successful, but Cuban is legitimately a savvy and innovative businessman who has an eye for stuff that will be at least marginally profitable, and he was successful before the boom anyway, just not "buy NBA team" successful. Ted literally has nothing other than being in the right place at the right time.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1633 » by Endless Loop » Fri Apr 2, 2021 8:27 pm

As bad as he's been for the Wizards, you've gotta give Leonsis credit for what he's done with the Caps.

His approach with the Caps has been so different from what he's done with the Wiz, it's as though it's a different owner. He's been far less patient and forgiving with coaches and GMS with the Caps than with the Wiz. And of course the Caps have been one of the best teams in the NHL for years now.

FWIW, a good friend of mine used to work with Leonsis, and says he's a great guy to work with. That doesn't mean much of anything here, but it's an interesting little bit of data.

Hard to understand why Leonsis completely checked out during the Grunfeld era.

It's also hard to understand why Tommy hasn't been more hands-on with Brooks. There's a good likelihood that he and Brooks will suffer the same fate this offseason.

The Detroit game was a shame-fest. The only person who started against Detroit who should start against Dallas is Westbrook. Play Winston at power forward LOL! Let Hachimura be a healthy scratch. Don't accept that sort of result. If Brooks does nothing, then he's only got himself to blame.

I will say this- 3/5 of the regular starting lineup was out for the game. (Well, maybe not Bertans.) Brooks didn't have a whole lot to work with.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1634 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Fri Apr 2, 2021 10:06 pm

payitforward wrote:It's not that Ted is an ass. It's that Ted is convinced that he's really smart.

Why does Ted think he's really smart? Because Ted is a billionaire.

How did Ted become a billionaire? AOL, obviously.

But, Ted didn't start AOL. He happened to meet Steve Case, the guy who did start AOL.

Steve Case is really smart. Ted Leonsis was just lucky -- & I'm sure he did an outstanding job running the operations of AOL. But, the fact is that Ted Leonsis has never started a major business of any kind.

AOL was in the right place as the first generation of the world wide web took off. In one of the most extraordinarily stupid deals in the history of business, Time Warner essentially gave themselves to AOL in a merger. I'm sure Ted was central to the negotiation of that deal -- surely his greatest business triumph.

In short, the enormous wind that was the dot com boom blew Ted Leonsis high up to the top of the money tree. Ted was smart enough to go along for the ride -- give him that.

But, what he thinks is that he got to the top of the money tree, because he knows how to fly. IOW, he thinks he's really smart. Yet, since he cashed out of AOL, Ted hasn't made a nickel. Every business he's started or been in on starting -- from GroupOn to Snag Films to all the rest of them -- has failed.

Now... Monumental Sports & Entertainment doesn't look like it will fail, however. It's a conventional business based on a traditionally valuable entity -- sports franchises -- money machines which are always owned by guys who are already rich. Every single owner of a sports franchise was already rich when he acquired it.

& one of the franchises he bought won a title. Now, I'm not a hockey fan, so I can't comment on Ted's role in putting together a team capable of that success.

But, I am a life-long NBA fan & can tell you that he's done about as bad a job as possible with the Washington Wizards. Nor do you have to be much of a fan to understand that a losing record over a period of more than a dozen years which culminates in a terrible team constitutes a bad job.

Ted Leonsis is said to be a very nice guy, & I don't doubt it for a minute. He's said to be generous, thoughtful, & down to earth. I'm sure he's all those things. But, he has made a colossal mess of the Washington Wizards, and -- according to the tweet above -- he plans to keep working at it.


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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1635 » by FAH1223 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:34 am

Man, listening to Jeannie Buss and this is what I wish we had leading our franchise



How she talked about her brother being incompetent is just incredible.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1636 » by FAH1223 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:49 am

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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1637 » by Frichuela » Wed Feb 9, 2022 2:00 pm

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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1638 » by mhd » Wed Feb 9, 2022 2:18 pm

OUTSTANDING article by DA. Leonsis is the worst. I can't blame Tommy when he's hamstrung by Turd. We're going to be in perpetual mediocrity. I hope Beal leaves for nothing this off-season. I want Turd to hurt in his wallet.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1639 » by TGW » Wed Feb 9, 2022 2:31 pm

mhd wrote:OUTSTANDING article by DA. Leonsis is the worst. I can't blame Tommy when he's hamstrung by Turd. We're going to be in perpetual mediocrity. I hope Beal leaves for nothing this off-season. I want Turd to hurt in his wallet.


Why can't you blame Tommy? The narrative that poor Sheppard is a victim and is being hamstrung because Turd is a bad owner is nonsense. Sheppard is just as much to blame for this fiasco with his constant Beal asskissing, his mediocre draft picks, and his piss poor signings. He hasn't hit on one draft pick, and he gave silly contracts that he's already regretting.

There were better executives available in the offseason, and they bypassed them to resign Sheppard. If he can't do his job properly, then quit. This excuse making is not going to fly.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1640 » by mhd » Wed Feb 9, 2022 2:42 pm

TGW wrote:
mhd wrote:OUTSTANDING article by DA. Leonsis is the worst. I can't blame Tommy when he's hamstrung by Turd. We're going to be in perpetual mediocrity. I hope Beal leaves for nothing this off-season. I want Turd to hurt in his wallet.


Why can't you blame Tommy? The narrative that poor Sheppard is a victim and is being hamstrung because Turd is a bad owner is nonsense. Sheppard is just as much to blame for this fiasco with his constant Beal asskissing, his mediocre draft picks, and his piss poor signings. He hasn't hit on one draft pick, and he gave silly contracts that he's already regretting.

There were better executives available in the offseason, and they bypassed them to resign Sheppard. If he can't do his job properly, then quit. This excuse making is not going to fly.


Who do you think is mandating sucking up to Beal? It's Ted? He refuses to rebuild. That means Tommy has to keep the status quo. Tommy isn't quitting his one opportunity to be a GM. A direction of a team starts with ownership. DA (as plugged in as any writer out there) has stated for years that Turd won't rebuild. So, Tommy has to do what the boss wants. Our name should be the Washington play-ins.

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