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“We want to see that competitive fire,” Grunfeld said. “Over the last 10 games, he’s playing much better and his competitive spirit is there, as well as the rest of the players. Obviously, John makes everything go for us and he’s a huge part of what we do, but this is a team game and you need production from a lot of different players, not just one player, and we want to see improvement as we move forward.

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All this means IMO is John Wall can be traded, too.

KAJ was traded. Charles Barkley was traded. Wilt Chamberlain was traded. Wayne Gretzky was traded. Anyone can be traded. I'd like Wall to be playing better also, but I doubt the market for him is commensurate with his true (hopefully) value right now. As an aside, I sure wish EG had been a lot more competitive over the last several years.

Ernie Grunfeld would get fired before Wall gets traded...I'd bet anything on that.

would anyone here trade Wall for Jrue Holiday straight up?

they're about the same age

close in size

both very athletic

Wall was #1#1 and is in 2nd year

Holiday was around 16th overall in his 3rd year

dobrojim wrote:would anyone here trade Wall for Drue Holiday straight up?

Definitely not for "Drue". Not even for "Jrue".

Dear god no.

dobrojim wrote:would anyone here trade Wall for Drue Holiday straight up?

hell no. Now would I trade him for Holiday straight up in this system? Hell yes. I think its a horrible system for Wall and I cant stress it enough. Get a different coach with the high screen, pick & roll system and he looks 10x better

TGW wrote:Ernie Grunfeld will get fired before Wall gets traded...I'd bet anything on that.

Fixed.

Not to start rumors. I said that was my OPINION about trading Wall.

I think it is the appropriate time to mention Wall's play needs to be better. Any time a GM goes there he's putting his neck on the chopping block. EG already is in the last year of his deal, and Flip's been fired. I read things that indicate EG is on good terms with Ted, but I dunno.

Regardless, Ernie has put together a roster bereft of shooters. Wall went #1 overall but the kid is a pretty bad shooter. He's been better lately, but he's got to improve overall if the Wizards are to move forward (with him as the cornerstone at PG).

This is the kind of challenge that makes greatness come out, or not.

dlts20 wrote:

dobrojim wrote:would anyone here trade Wall for Drue Holiday straight up?

hell no. Now would I trade him for Holiday straight up in this system? Hell yes. I think its a horrible system for Wall and I cant stress it enough. Get a different coach with the high screen, pick & roll system and he looks 10x better

Wall has been better running a simplified attack with Wittman.

I said last season that I thought Brandon Jennings' rookie season with Milwaukee was every bit as good, even better, than Wall's with the Wizards. Holiday is a comparable player to Wall, IMO. He doesn't get as nearly many assists, but he's a better defender, a far better deep shooter, and he's less turnover prone.

I would replace Holiday with Wall IF the Wizards got a pick along with Holiday. Easy choice for me to make, too. I WOULD NOT trade them straight up because all Wall needs is to shoot better and to have a better cast around him and he would become far better than Holiday. That's a couple big needs, however.

I don't want to start calling for Wall's head. I want to raise the possibility that at some point upgrading and getting serious value added to that upgrade becomes a possibility. Ricky Rubio went for Foye and Miller. Rubio's better right now than Wall.

John Wall needs to relax more, enjoy his teammates, slow down and let the game come to him at crunch time, and believe things are going to work out fine. He's very talented but lacks patience and poise.

Benjammin wrote:As an aside, I sure wish EG had been a lot more competitive over the last several years.

This, times infinity.

Which is not to say trading for Foye and Miller wasn't really shooting for the stars. Oh, you competitive son of a biscuit, you.

100% agree with Ernie. Wall is competitive when the starts off well. When the team or he struggles early he goes into a shell and is just a watching the action. He needs to realize that he's the threat that will open things up for everyone else.

Benjammin wrote:

dobrojim wrote:would anyone here trade Wall for Drue Holiday straight up?

Definitely not for "Drue". Not even for "Jrue".

my bad

to evade my own question, I would just say that Holiday
is playing better than Wall this season, from what I have seen.

Again from what I've seen, Jrue is clearly a better shooter
as well as a better defender.

Benjammin wrote:KAJ was traded. Charles Barkley was traded. Wilt Chamberlain was traded. Wayne Gretzky was traded. Anyone can be traded. I'd like Wall to be playing better also, but I doubt the market for him is commensurate with his true (hopefully) value right now. As an aside, I sure wish EG had been a lot more competitive over the last several years.

They were great when they got traded and their teams did not come close to receiving value in return. I can give you two great examples of what a Wall trade could do.

1) If Wall were traded, it could be like Kidd going from Dallas to Phoenix. Finley stayed with Dallas a long time and was a very good player for them. Kidd had been ROY but he wasn't considered a great player before going to Phoenix.

December 26, 1996: Tradedby the Dallas Mavericks with Tony Dumas and Loren Meyer to the Phoenix Suns for Sam Cassell, Michael Finley, A.C. Green and a 1998 2nd round draft pick (Greg Buckner).

Another example is when Kevin Johnson was playing in Cleveland behind Mark Price. He was traded to Phoenix and Cleveland got Javale's daddy (j/k), Larry Nance. KJ showed a lot of talent early but he was stuck behind an all star.

February 25, 1988: Traded by the Cleveland Cavaliers with Tyrone Corbin, Mark West, a 1988 1st round draft pick (Dan Majerle), a 1988 2nd round draft pick (Dean Garrett) and a 1989 2nd round draft pick (Greg Grant) to the Phoenix Suns for Larry Nance, Mike Sanders and a 1988 1st round draft pick (Randolph Keys).

BOTTOM LINE: Wall is a GREAT TALENT. The only way any deal at all should happen would be that it returns either a great player or a very high lottery pick that will yield a future great player.

My idea of a Wall trade would return a prime Finley or prime Nance PLUS a 1st round pick. That, or it would improve the chances of getting Anthony Davis. That's all I would even mention a Wall trade for. Comparing Wall to an early Jason Kidd, I don't think there's any strong argument about which player was better. Kidd got traded. Kidd was traded for value. Kevin Johnson was arguably every bit as good as a rookie as Wall. He was traded for value.

(Trivia: Phoenix had young Steve Nash, old Kevin Johnson, and prime Sam Cassell who was traded for prime Jason Kidd. They had three PGS and the Wizards have poor John Wall with no one to help him and JERKS LIKE ME proposing trade ideas. )

Benjammin wrote: As an aside, I sure wish EG had been a lot more competitive over the last several years.

QFT.

Someone please tell me why Ernie Grunfeld is still employed by the Wizards?

jivelikenice wrote:100% agree with Ernie.

As well you should.

jivelikenice wrote:Wall is competitive when the starts off well. When the team or he struggles early he goes into a shell and is just a watching the action. He needs to realize that he's the threat that will open things up for everyone else.

And that's a completely valid criticism. Even if your shot isn't falling or you aren't getting the calls when you go to the rim, there are still things you can do to lead your team. For all his faults, Wall can put a lot of pressure on defenses when he's aggressive. Hopefully he gets back to doing that consistently.

Dat2U wrote:

Benjammin wrote: As an aside, I sure wish EG had been a lot more competitive over the last several years.

QFT.

Someone please tell me why Ernie Grunfeld is still employed by the Wizards?

Ben, I nominate that for HOF post.

I still like Ernie saying that, though. Many good things are going on with the Wizards. I am starting to get happy about this team. Even Wall's struggles are no big deal IMO.

Just spit my coffee out laughing. Thanks, fish.

Ironic twist, Ernie calling for "Competitive Fire" from Wall. Wall's calling for the above fire.

I got Ernie on this one.

John Wall is getting paid #1 overall money and that pales in comparison to his Reebok endorsement deal. I know he's just a very young man. I believe he's got too much on his plate.

Yet, when you call out your teammates when your own bowel movement is really smelly it brings up the expression "pride comes before destruction." Young fella needs to recognize he's not holding it down and carrying the team. Shelvin's looking better and better at PG.

That is what comes with the territory when you make the big bucks.