Nene

[hands11]

Man, it seems like a lot of overreaction in this thread. Veterans miss training camp all the time. It's not like he's been out completely since the end of last season. He played in the Olympics through the 1st part of August. That was only about a month and a half ago. Let the dude rest, get closer to 100% before going full bore, because we need him for 82 games, not just the start of training camp.

The team is just being cautious and I have no issues with that. Let the young ins get all the burn this month, they need it a lot more that Nene does.

LOL You don't say.

Thing is, it's just speculation and it is based on very little facts. Not that there is no information.

But it does depend on how you want to view it. As it says in my sig, Nene barely missed any games for 3 years. Then in a strike shortened year, he missed a good chunk of games. So some people are very focused on last year.

Now we are approaching preseason and the Wiz are saying they want to rest him and take it slow to ensure the foot is healed. EG said he should be ready for the season. Whit comes out and says since he has been getting treatment after the Olympics, things have progressed quickly and he is moving well.

Yet, people take the statement that he will not be going full out in training camp and run with it with stuff like, Denver got over on us by selling us damaged goods. Nene will miss 25 games, etc.

They have 30 days before the season starts. This is the beginning of Stage 2 of the rebuild. They are focused on the long run. Its still a very young team. They have a important piece top 3 pick in Beal to get established. They have an entire roster to gel.

Yeah they want to focus on winning more this year and they would like to fight for the playoffs, but they are not going to force things in the short term at the cost of the long term. If Nene is ready at the start of the season.. great. If not, they will take the extra time and wait until he is fully healed. That is the right approach. Its more important that he plays more games over the next 2, 3, 4 years then if he starts the season. And he still may do that.

Good news is that we will have real answer very soon. Start the season or not, I'm not worried yet. Its just to soon to do that IMO

[Nivek]

Man, it seems like a lot of overreaction in this thread. Veterans miss training camp all the time. It's not like he's been out completely since the end of last season. He played in the Olympics through the 1st part of August. That was only about a month and a half ago. Let the dude rest, get closer to 100% before going full bore, because we need him for 82 games, not just the start of training camp.

The team is just being cautious and I have no issues with that. Let the young ins get all the burn this month, they need it a lot more that Nene does.

I agree there's some overreaction. It shouldn't be a big deal. But this is the Wizards, and the team's history with injury has been bad.

The "rest" thing -- I can sorta see that -- except, he played only 1100 minutes last season. Normal load would be double that. He played about 110 total minutes in the Olympics; maybe another 100 minutes tops for exhibition/prep games. There were practices and whatnot, but would those be markedly more demanding than his usual offseason workout regimen? I doubt it. Dunno about you, but it doesn't seem like what he's been doing is so demanding that he couldn't be ready for training camp with 6 weeks of rest. Unless, of course, there's actually a problem with the foot.

For now, I'm going to chalk this up to standard caution with a veteran.

But, I will say that the Wizards have earned no benefit of the doubt with their handling of injuries. Their front office has earned no benefit of the doubt when it comes to making personnel decisions. They've earned second guessing with a history of bad moves and poor handling of recovery from injuries.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Since I'm Chicken Little for the most part (but the sky is generally falling on the Wizards) I'll respond to charges of overreaction with one word:

Denial

That is what some are doing if they think this is standard procedure. No way in hell with Sichting and Newcombe new to the coaching staff, with so many new players, and with Randy Wittman in his first season. The best player needs to be on the court.

[Knighthonor]

Since I'm Chicken Little for the most part (but the sky is generally falling on the Wizards) I'll respond to charges of overreaction with one word:

Denial

That is what some are doing if they think this is standard procedure. No way in hell with Sichting and Newcombe new to the coaching staff, with so many new players, and with Randy Wittman in his first season. The best player needs to be on the court.

I say this again,

anybody think this is overracting,,, look at Wizard's history

Jerry-
Gil-
Lewis-
Nene-

wiz been through this same mess over and over. what always happens?

[hands11]

Since I'm Chicken Little for the most part (but the sky is generally falling on the Wizards) I'll respond to charges of overreaction with one word:

Denial

That is what some are doing if they think this is standard procedure. No way in hell with Sichting and Newcombe new to the coaching staff, with so many new players, and with Randy Wittman in his first season. The best player needs to be on the court.

I say this again,

anybody think this is overracting,,, look at Wizard's history

Jerry - Terrible trade but he played 10 years ago under MJ played 70 first year and 26 his second.
Lewis - cut an injured Gils contract a year short. Lewis is playing again this year. Signed to Miami
Josh Howard - crap shoot low cost add in the blow up years for salary dump reasons.
Yeeee - crap shoot low cost add in the blow up years. Played in 63 one year. Then let go.

Fixed

So again, Yes, you are over reacting given the evidence you have right now.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Ok, what's the over/under on games played for Nene this year?

I'm going with 17.

[payitforward]

...As it says in my sig, Nene barely missed any games for 3 years. Then in a strike shortened year, he missed a good chunk of games. So some people are very focused on last year.

...people take the statement that he will not be going full out in training camp and run with it...

...This is the beginning of Stage 2 of the rebuild. ...Its still a very young team.

Yeah they want to focus on winning more this year and they would like to fight for the playoffs, but they are not going to force things in the short term at the cost of the long term.

...I'm not worried yet. Its just to soon to do that IMO

To take the points I've excerpted one at a time:

People focused on last year, in re: Nene's injury: Hands, however could it be relevant whether Nene missed games 3 years ago? It isn't. He missed a lot of games last year; that is certainly relevant.

The statement was that he might miss training camp -- not that he might not go full out.

Stage 2 of the rebuild? Howzzat? We acquired what 5 veterans since the last part of last season? None of these guys has any further development in him except in a fan's dreams. Every one of them is in the downward-heading 2d half of his career, and some of them are well into it. We made a high draft pick -- hard to avoid that when you *have* a high draft pick. That doesn't qualify as "rebuild strategy part 2." And in fact, Ted has spoken: we are done rebuilding.

Still a young team? Not really. I haven't done the math, but I'm not confident we're even in the younger half any more. And, given the above, we have certainly gotten older this year.

Not going to force the short term at the expense of the long term? That's exactly what the FO did this off-season -- at Ted's behest apparently. Did we make any effort to add to our young core? No. We are all about the short term.

Too early to be worried? You're kidding, right? How many games has this franchise won in the last 4 seasons? When's the right time to worry?

[nate33]

Still a young team? Not really. I haven't done the math, but I'm not confident we're even in the younger half any more. And, given the above, we have certainly gotten older this year.

We're still pretty darn young.

Basically, we're subbing:
Nene for McGee (+5 years)
Okafor for Blatche (+4 years)
Beal for Young (-6 years)
Ariza for Lewis (-6 years)

That's basically a wash. Our regular rotation may be a bit older only because the returning players (Wall, Crawford, Singleton, Booker, Vesely, Seraphin, Mack and Martin) aged a year. The team as a whole might actually be younger when you consider that our end-of-benchers (Webster and Price) are younger than the grizzled vets that they replaced (Mason and Mo Evans).

[I_Like_Dirt]

Yeah, the Wiz are still what I'd define as a young team. I think looking at the end-of-benchers tends to skew things too much. Really, you want to look at the players that are most critical to the team's success. In the Wizards' case, those players are clearly Wall and Beal - they can sub in players like Ariza and Okafor for years around those guys if they want to. Likewise, the Lakers aren't a young team because they've signed Devin Ebanks, Andrew Goudelock and Robert Sacre. They still rely heavily on Nash, Kobe and Gasol. Even pro-rating for minutes is misleading, imo, because young teams inevitably try to fill the rest of their minutes with older players rather than risk losing witih lesser players, while older teams generally try to find diamonds in the rough because they've already got their stars locked down, or are looking to fill in some athleticism for practices or the odd game situation and have no need of more veterans, and don't have the financial flexibility to add more veterans than they've already got.

The only team that seems to be able to defy definitions and be both old and young at once is the ever strange San Antonio Spurs who still rely horribly on Duncan and Ginobili, but at the same time, have Parker in his prime and are also (less) critically relying on Lenard, Green, Splitter and Blair.

[verbal8]

The only team that seems to be able to defy definitions and be both old and young at once is the ever strange San Antonio Spurs who still rely horribly on Duncan and Ginobili, but at the same time, have Parker in his prime and are also (less) critically relying on Lenard, Green, Splitter and Blair.

Duncan and Ginobili defying time has kept the Spurs relevant for much longer than would be expected.

[I_Like_Dirt]

They are defying time because the Spurs have been limiting their minutes for the last several seasons. They are managing to do that by bringing in amazingly deep supporting casts that have been relying increasingly on young but productive talent on cheaper or even rookie scale contracts. Neither Duncan nor Ginobili averaged 29 mpg last season and Ginobili barely played in half the season and they still had the best record in the NBA.

Eventually Ducan and Ginobili will retire and the Spurs won't go on 20-game winning streaks anymore, but they're looking more and more ready for that transition over time than I had imagined they'd look several years ago. They've got a remarkably deep team that only really needs one or two players to continue being a conference finals threat. Discounting Duncan and Ginobili, they had 6 other players on the roster who had a PER of 15.5 or higher and played significant minutes (Patty Mills was threatening to make it 7 but he didn't play very much). Parker is 29 with a PER of 22, Splitter is 27 with a PER of 20.5, Blair is 22 with a PER of 17.6, Leonard is 20 with a PER of 16.6, Danny Green is 24 with a PER of 15.5, and Patty Mills is 23 with a PER of 21.5. The biggest knocks on PER are that it doesn't account for efficiency, except that the least efficient scorer of those 9 players was Duncan with a TS% of .531, followed by Parker at .539. Also, PER doesn't account for defense, which is the big calling card of Duncan and highly underrated aspect of Ginobili, but despite the limitations of guys like Blair and Splitter, Leonard looks solid on defense and the team as a whole seems alright even when Duncan and Manu aren't around.

[closg00]

[hands11]

Still a young team? Not really. I haven't done the math, but I'm not confident we're even in the younger half any more. And, given the above, we have certainly gotten older this year.

We're still pretty darn young.

Basically, we're subbing:
Nene for McGee (+5 years)
Okafor for Blatche (+4 years)
Beal for Young (-6 years)
Ariza for Lewis (-6 years)

That's basically a wash. Our regular rotation may be a bit older only because the returning players (Wall, Crawford, Singleton, Booker, Vesely, Seraphin, Mack and Martin) aged a year. The team as a whole might actually be younger when you consider that our end-of-benchers (Webster and Price) are younger than the grizzled vets that they replaced (Mason and Mo Evans).

Exactly.

Wall, Beal, Booker, Ves, Kevin, Chris Singleton... Not to mention Crawford and Tomas Satoransky

And there are other long shot prospects who could actually stick around.. Trevor Ariza 27, Cartier Martin 27, Martell Webster 25

They have plenty of young players who could stick around. But now they have some vets to help stabilize things.

Next year should be a really good year for them. Most the younger players will have multiple years of experience but the older players won't be over the hill old yet.

Keep in mind, they started Wall as a rookie two years ago and started two rookies in Ves and Singleton last year. What they have been is wet behind the years young. Now they are just young. Next year they will be experienced young.

Things are headed in the right direction. This year is going to be fun to watch. Should be interesting to see what Booker and C Singleton have added.

[hands11]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wiz ... ut-return/

“I was a little behind, than I thought,” Nene said, when explaining the reason for the treatment. “It’s still inflamed. I just want to take care of it the right way. But all the exercises, I’ve been doing fine. I’ve been listening. I’ve been obedient.”

“I’m getting there, man. I believe I’m making progress,” Nene said. “I just want to make sure I’m 100 percent because I don’t want this kind of injury again on a season.”

Sounded like from an early post I did that things were looking good. Now this one makes it more clear he won't be ready which is what some had feared.

First game is in 11 days. If it is still inflamed, that alone sounds like another two weeks min if they plan on really making sure everything is ok. I would think they would want it not inflamed for at least a week. Personally, I would want longer then that.

I'm kind of pissed he did the Olympics since he was injured. I understand why he wanted to do it but in doing it, he hurt the team that is paying him.

The key at this point is getting Kevin S back. If they can get him right, they may be able to buy some more time for Nene to get fully better while still treading water.

Fri, Nov 9 vs MIL at home is 3 weeks. Hopefully that is enough for him. He would only miss 3 games.

[Jimmy Recard]

Randy, Ernie and Ted during the offseason all said said that they're going to be cautious with Nene. It wouldn't surprise me if he's not back until late November, just before Wall's ready toll come back. Face it, it looks like we'll be without our two best players for at least he first few weeks of the season. I hope others are ready to step up.

[closg00]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/wp/2012/10/19/nene-remains-uncertain-about-return/

“I was a little behind, than I thought,” Nene said, when explaining the reason for the treatment. “It’s still inflamed. I just want to take care of it the right way. But all the exercises, I’ve been doing fine. I’ve been listening. I’ve been obedient.”

“I’m getting there, man. I believe I’m making progress,” Nene said. “I just want to make sure I’m 100 percent because I don’t want this kind of injury again on a season.”

Sounded like from an early post I did that things were looking good. Now this one makes it more clear he won't be ready which is what some had feared.

First game is in 11 days. If it is still inflamed, that alone sounds like another two weeks min if they plan on really making sure everything is ok. I would think they would want it not inflamed for at least a week. Personally, I would want longer then that.

I'm kind of pissed he did the Olympics since he was injured. I understand why he wanted to do it but in doing it, he hurt the team that is paying him.

The key at this point is getting Kevin S back. If they can get him right, they may be able to buy some more time for Nene to get fully better while still treading water.

Fri, Nov 9 vs MIL at home is 3 weeks. Hopefully that is enough for him. He would only miss 3 games.

What an unfortunate choice for a signature hands, how-many games will Nene have to miss before you change it?

Btw, Mark Cuban wisely did not allow Dirk to play for Germany this summer, Ted & Ernie could have asked Nene not to play for Brazil considering how the season ended for him.

[Zonkerbl]

And I wrote an email to Ted saying he shouldn't let Nene play in the olympics...

[closg00]

And I wrote an email to Ted saying he shouldn't let Nene play in the olympics...

Proving once-again that people on this board can run the team better than Ernie Grunfeld..

[Jay81]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/wp/2012/10/19/nene-remains-uncertain-about-return/

“I was a little behind, than I thought,” Nene said, when explaining the reason for the treatment. “It’s still inflamed. I just want to take care of it the right way. But all the exercises, I’ve been doing fine. I’ve been listening. I’ve been obedient.”

“I’m getting there, man. I believe I’m making progress,” Nene said. “I just want to make sure I’m 100 percent because I don’t want this kind of injury again on a season.”

Sounded like from an early post I did that things were looking good. Now this one makes it more clear he won't be ready which is what some had feared.

First game is in 11 days. If it is still inflamed, that alone sounds like another two weeks min if they plan on really making sure everything is ok. I would think they would want it not inflamed for at least a week. Personally, I would want longer then that.

I'm kind of pissed he did the Olympics since he was injured. I understand why he wanted to do it but in doing it, he hurt the team that is paying him.

The key at this point is getting Kevin S back. If they can get him right, they may be able to buy some more time for Nene to get fully better while still treading water.

Fri, Nov 9 vs MIL at home is 3 weeks. Hopefully that is enough for him. He would only miss 3 games.

What an unfortunate choice for a signature hands, how-many games will Nene have to miss before you change it?

Btw, Mark Cuban wisely did not allow Dirk to play for Germany this summer, Ted & Ernie could have asked Nene not to play for Brazil considering how the season ended for him.

Dirk is out 6 weeks

[closg00]

Dirk would have been out even longer or perhaps done with basketball altogether had he played in the Olympics.

The Wizards after the Arenas debacle, were fine with Nene playing in the Olympics even-though he was coming-off an injury, they just planned on "monitoring" him.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wiz ... _blog.html

Gilbert should have called Nene and told him not to go.