RealGM

Continued from old thread:

Benjammin wrote:Apparently standing reach has more variability in its measurements and may not be as reliable as wingspan, for example:

http://www.brewhoop.com/2008/6/22/54308 ... r-explorin

Great find, Benjamin. From the article:

Note: After posting this I received an email from a trainer who offered up a very logical explanation for the standing reach volatility in particular. They noted that inconsistent application of the standing reach test means that players can effectively "tank" their standing reaches by slouching, extending their elbows slightly, etc., which lowers their standing reach. Why do that? Because vertical leaps are typically calculated based on the difference between max (jumping) reach and standing reach.

Thus, a player can to some extent manipulate their measurements--if they want a more impressive vertical then they can tank their standing reach, though obviously it's a tradeoff. Guards may find it particularly beneficial to inflate their verticals at the expense of standing reach, which is probably not scrutinized nearly as closely by teams.

This might explain Beal to some extent. I'm still surprised to see his lackluster standing reach when he has decent height, a good wingspan, and no neck. Maybe we ought to add an inch or two to his standing reach and take an inch or two off of his vertical.

There may be some variance, but I'm sure teams do measurements on their own (which we don't have access to).

Might make a slight difference for Beal.

But Ty Zeller has alligator arms no matter how you look at it.

Wow - cannot believe that we are already on part V of this conversation...

TIERone

1. PF Anthony Davis

TIERtwo

2. SF Michael Kidd-Gilchrist

TIERthree

3. PG Damien Lillard
4. CE Andre Drummond
5. SG Bradley Beal
6. PF Thomas Robinson
7. SG Dion Waiters
8. PF Jared Sullinger
9. PF John Henson
10. CE Meyers Leonard
11. PF Terrence Jones
12. SG Jeremy Lamb
13. PF Arnett Moultrie
14. SG Terrence Ross
15. SF Quincy Miller
16. PF Perry Jones III
17. SG Will Barton
18. SF Harrison Barnes
19. PF Andrew Nicholson

TIERfour

20. SG Austin Rivers
21. CE Fab Melo
22. CE Tyler Zeller
23. PG Kendall Marshall
24. SF Moe Harkless
25. SF Jae Crowder
26. PF Royce White
27. PG Marquis Teague
28. SF Evan Fournier

TIERfive

29. SF Jeff Taylor
30. CE Kyle O'Quinn
31. SG John Jenkins
32. SG Doron Lamb
33. CE Festus Ezeli
34. SG Jared Cunningham
35. PG Scott Machado
36. CE Miles Plumlee
37. PF Kevin Jones
38. PF Mike Scott
39. PG Tu Holloway
40. PG J'Covan Brown
41. PG Tony Wroten
42. PF Drew Gordon

Not too surprised by the measurements I've seen, most seem pretty much in line with I thought they'd be around. I don't think any of think any of the measurements sway my opinions one way or the other.

T.Jones was maybe a little bigger than I realized. I think Beal & Robinson measure fine for SG & PF respectively. I do scratch my head when I read posts about not taking Beal because we don't need a "good" SG we need a star. Those were the type of comments being made about Harden prior to his draft if I remember right. I think Beal could be a Mitch Richmond type. That said I'd love to see us take Robinson.

Either of those 2 are my preference at this point. To me they passed the measurement requirements which were my only hesistation.

Missed out on the action from 2012 NBA Draft parts I,II,III and IV, so I'm just stopping in to say the pick has to go on either Bradley Beal or Harrison Barnes. Enough with this Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Thomas Robinson nonsense.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/cine_1/9389842.gif
PJ3 2 step vertical.

kirubel94 wrote:http://s3.amazonaws.com/cine_1/9389842.gif
PJ3 2 step vertical.

My pick.

Hope he's there. If not, well, MKG or Beal are a great consolation.

mohammed10 wrote:Wow - cannot believe that we are already on part V of this conversation...

They'll start going faster now, with less than 3 weeks until the draft. The workouts are next week, etc. We'll probably be on Part VII or VIII by 6/28.

I check the board a couple times a day, and it's hard to figure out where I left off when the thread is adding 8-10 pages a day.

I heard Crowder had some trouble staying in front of guys in the drills. I'm worried about how well his defense will translate to the next level.

Here are some comparison measurements I put together for Beal and Robinson.
Beal first...the thing that strikes me is that although height wise he identical to Wade his standing reach is way less. Harden is probably average 2 guard size and only has a 1/4" in height but much better reach. John Wall has a better reach. I think the closest comparison is OJ Mayo. To me Beal is firmly in the tweaner camp so unless he has rediculous hops and is a rediculous shooter then hes a combo guard.

Bradley Beal 6'3.25" 6'4.75 201.8 6'8" 8'3"

Dwyane Wade - 2003 6' 3.75" 6' 4.75" 212 6' 10.75" 8' 6"

James Harden - 2009 6' 4" 6' 5.25" 222 6' 10.75" 8' 7.5"

John Wall - 2010 6' 2.75" 6' 4" 196 6' 9.25" 8' 5.5"

O.J. Mayo - 2008 6' 3.25" 6' 4.25" 200 6' 6" 8' 3.5"

Eric Gordon - 2008 6' 2" 6' 3.25" 222 6' 9" 8' 3"

Monta Ellis - 2005 6' 2.25" 6' 3.25" 177 6' 2.75" 8' 2"

Now on to Robinson:
I was surprised to see his wingspan but his standing reach also puts him in the undersized camp. Hes basically the same size as Kevin Love.


Thomas Robinson 6'7.75" 6'8.75" 244.2 7'3.25" 8'10"

Anthony Davis 6'9.25 6'10.5" 221.8 7'5.5" 9'0"

Blake Griffin - 2009 6' 8.5" 6' 10" 248 6' 11.25" 8'9"

Kevin Love - 2008 6' 7.75" 6' 9.5" 255 6' 11.25" 8' 10"

Amare Stoudemire - 6' 8.5" 6' 10" 233 7' 1.75" 9' 0.5"


Bottom line...i'd pass on Beal and hope hope that Charlotte takes Robinson so we can get MKG. I just hope the Beal and Robinson have great hops so Charlotte takes one of them.

I suspect Beal will grade out as a good athlete. But there's no getting around the fact he's undersized. I don't think I could be comfortable taking him at 3. He's a good player, but I can't really consider him an elite prospect anymore. What he's got going for him is his age. That's going to inflate his value.

Dat2U wrote:TIERone

1. PF Anthony Davis

TIERtwo

2. SF Michael Kidd-Gilchrist

TIERthree

3. PG Damien Lillard
4. CE Andre Drummond
5. SG Bradley Beal
6. PF Thomas Robinson
7. SG Dion Waiters
8. PF Jared Sullinger
9. PF John Henson
10. CE Meyers Leonard
11. PF Terrence Jones
12. SG Jeremy Lamb
13. PF Arnett Moultrie
14. SG Terrence Ross
15. SF Quincy Miller
16. PF Perry Jones III
17. SG Will Barton
18. SF Harrison Barnes
19. PF Andrew Nicholson

TIERfour

20. SG Austin Rivers
21. CE Fab Melo
22. CE Tyler Zeller
23. PG Kendall Marshall
24. SF Moe Harkless
25. SF Jae Crowder
26. PF Royce White
27. PG Marquis Teague
28. SF Evan Fournier

TIERfive

29. SF Jeff Taylor
30. CE Kyle O'Quinn
31. SG John Jenkins
32. SG Doron Lamb
33. CE Festus Ezeli
34. SG Jared Cunningham
35. PG Scott Machado
36. CE Miles Plumlee
37. PF Kevin Jones
38. PF Mike Scott
39. PG Tu Holloway
40. PG J'Covan Brown
41. PG Tony Wroten
42. PF Drew Gordon

To be honest dude I actually think Thomas Robinson is in the tier 2 he is underrated. I think he will be an allstar in the nba.

dangermouse wrote:

My pick.

Hope he's there. If not, well, MKG or Beal are a great consolation.

I will be a TR fan regardless of where he lands.

DVR'd the combine and some quick thoughts about what I saw.

Beal, Rivers and Lamb look the same height which just makes me more comfortable with Beal. Liked seeing them make fun of Beal messing up his agility test.

Baylor PJ3, wow he's about as physically impressive a player I've ever seen. I'll say this right now, If you can tap into his mind for him to believe he's the man he's going to be the second best player in this draft. All I've seen is lack of confidence in him as the major drawback but I don't sense he's weak. I think Baylor held him back and other than Davis I think he's the safest pick in the draft. His skills will translate and if he's "coached up" I think you're getting a perennial allstar.

Lillard looks a little too small to play 2g though that's probably his best position.

I was happy to see Hummel out there without knee braces.

Sullinger, snackin'!

Leonard is going to be a lottery pick and I wouldn't' be surprised if he moves into the top 5. Whether he's going to be a good player I highly question. If he focuses his mind to defending and rebounding I think he can start in the NBA. Meaning start on any team.

They should know better than to put MKG live on camera. He's a kid, I hated seeing that.

Drummond moves ridiculously well for a 6'll player.

Watched Drummond's combine interview. He's going to need a very disciplined program because he's aloof. After watching games, hearing him talk and how he thinks I'm confident saying he's aloof. I question whether or not he's going to be "all in". If he can't handle it and I could see that during team interviews I wouldn't touch him. I sense he might respond well in a good system with teammates who make sure he's focused on and off the court.

Anyone know when the athletic testing numbers will be posteded

OK.......I really wish I was in a position to make a decision for the future of the Wiz.....

At # 3 I would not take Beal. I like his game but worried about the size and ability to guard a true NBA SG. The only player that I would certainly take at #3 is Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. I'm on the fence about T. Robinson at #3 only because he will cause a log jam of PF's on our team.

I LIKE JEREMY LAMB

Jeremy Lamb is a true 6'5 SG and his wingspan could be a benefit on both ends of the court. He can shoot the ball just as good as Beal but his jumper doesn't look as pretty. He has a very good handle on him and can take players one on one better than Beal.

I look at Jeremy Lamb as a true scorer in the NBA being able to score all over the court. Beal is a shooter.

We should attempt to trade down. Trade #3....Booker.....to Portland for #6 and #11. Take Lamb at #6 and either Sullinger/T. Jones/Henson/Zeller at #11.

Mark my words that Jeremy Lamb will be a star in the NBA and whoever passes up on him will hate themselves.

DraftExpress: Bradley Beal Video Scouting Report: http://t.co/PCYNoS8L

I like him. You want to like someone less, click on the Jeremy Lamb video scouting report near the bottom of the page. In fact, I'd say watch the Waiters report and the Lillard report as well, then say who looks best. (Lillard looks outstanding, btw -- then you see that it's a game vs. Montana or UT Arlington).

Beal looks way ahead of the rest of them in pretty much every skill -- esp. his shooting stroke -- and also way ahead developmentally. He just plays strong and smart in every aspect. Then you think "this kid is 18..." Looks to me like he's going to be a heck of a player.

As I watch him, he seems never to need to react; he's already seen the situation, and he's there. I can't put Waiters, Lillard or Lamb on his level at all.

Just a quick edit to suggest watching him out-rebound 6'7" Jeff Taylor several times, and some concerns about his size go away.

John Wall grew a half inch between the time he was drafted and 2011. I don't see how or why Beal will stop growing. He's only 18, I'm guessing he's going to grow an inch or two taller before it's all said and done. Just throwing that out there because I think we're over analyzing his measurements and not realizing the kid still is growing.

I would take a combo of Ray Allen and Eric Gordon any day of the week.