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You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 6:59 am
by BRIGGS
You have too much upfront--usually not a bad problem to deal with but 5 guys for two positions and all of them have good qualities and need to play
i.e
Vesely
Booker
Seraphin
Nene
Ok4
I thought Seraphin earned a starting role and 35 + minutes at PF and Vesley and Booker are high quality back ups--Vesley can play 5 in the NBA the way it is right now. But with the addition of Ok4 and Nene--even though they are both injury prone--the minutes are not going to be there. This screams for a trade for a quality vet guard since Crawford cannot shoot and Webster is a part time player. Id try to get Morrow from the guard heavy Hawks--you need a guy who can stretch the floor and relieve one guy--Booker? from that 5 man frontline.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 9:07 am
by dangermouse
I tip my hat to thee, Captain Obvious.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 9:51 am
by Nivek
You just don't understand the genius of Ernie and Ted. Come back later today to give hands11 time to respond.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 11:57 am
by closg00
hands11 wrote:They made a decision to take a course. They didn't want more rookies added this year. They are building around the group of young players they already have. They added Beal. They tanked to get that high pick. They traded two non leaders for a legit front court leader. And they barely secured the 3rd pick in doing so. Just one or two more wins would have hurt the tank. Like it or not, that was the plan and the executed it well. And that is why Ves was a viable pick for them last year. They knew he was a scrappy player with good BBIQ that was not a scorer but in a few years would be a 6-11 legit player. Not NBA ready is fine if you plan of tanking that year. In a strike shortened year.
This year was about adding more vets, not rookies so Wall would have a more mature stable NBA experienced roster in his 3rd year.... for the first time in his career. Wall was the #1 pick. You want to maximize that asset. And Beal walks into a way better situation then Wall did so he should transition faster. Kawhi Leonard was drafted 15th. Lots of team passed on him. And besides, you think he would have had the same year he did last year if he was on the Wizards ? No, he wouldn't have.
So sure, they could have done lots of other things. But only players who fit with in the plan matter. So disregard any rookies this year other then the #3 pick. Disregard any NBA ready players last year. And disregard anyone who they would have needed to overpay this year on a contract longer then 1 or 2 years. Only consider trades for Lewis that would have actually worked.
And after you do all of that. Get over it. It didn't happen. You have a viable team better then anything you have seen in 20 years. By next year they will be better then any Gil, CB, AJ team we ever had and they have tons of upside from there. Most likely they impress most of you this year and all this complaining will be for nothing because you will jump on the bang wagon and say... opps and you will claim how you believed all along.
All they likely need is a SF to add to Wall, Beal and Nene while keeping the majority of their depth and they will have a legit second round team. From there you evaluate what the best next move is.
So sit back and enjoy until you actually have some evidence that shows this was all a mistake and the new path is not going to work. You will start to have that evidence in about 30 days.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 12:43 pm
by MJG
Obviously someone missed that we signed AJ Price over the summer. He's a veteran! So yea, I think we're all set, thanks.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 1:56 pm
by nate33
Obviously, we don't need all five of Nene, Okafor, Seraphin, Vesely and Booker. Ideally, one of them would be traded to acquire a SF.
Nene is the best of the group and is therefore a keeper. Seraphin and Vesely are really high upside prospects who probably lack the notoriety to achieve a fair trade value, so they won't be traded. That really only leaves Booker and Okafor as potential trading chips.
If we could trade Okafor for a true small forward with roughly equivalent talent (i.e., an average starter), I'm sure most on this board would leap at the opportunity. The problem is, there really isn't anyone out there available who belongs to a team with a surplus of SF's who is in need of a solid big man.
I'm not interested in trading Booker at this time. He is emerging as the heart and soul of this team, and if he continues to improve at the rate he has improved so far, he might end up as a starting caliber PF.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 5:23 pm
by dandridge 10
nate33 wrote:Obviously, we don't need all five of Nene, Okafor, Seraphin, Vesely and Booker. Ideally, one of them would be traded to acquire a SF.
Nene is the best of the group and is therefore a keeper. Seraphin and Vesely are really high upside prospects who probably lack the notoriety to achieve a fair trade value, so they won't be traded. That really only leaves Booker and Okafor as potential trading chips.
If we could trade Okafor for a true small forward with roughly equivalent talent (i.e., an average starter), I'm sure most on this board would leap at the opportunity. The problem is, there really isn't anyone out there available who belongs to a team with a surplus of SF's who is in need of a solid big man.
I'm not interested in trading Booker at this time. He is emerging as the heart and soul of this team, and if he continues to improve at the rate he has improved so far, he might end up as a starting caliber PF.
I agree with you on Booker. Watching last nights scrimmage, he just looks like a man amongst boys in there, even if he is undersized. Dude is strong and fast. If he can continue to improve on his outside shot and work on his handle, he could a very good player for us. Okafor would be my choice to trade...he will give us much needed rebounds, but he is not our future.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 5:54 pm
by Dat2U
Ideally I'd love to see Okafor go, I never wanted him here in the first place, lol. But I don't get the unwillingness to deal Booker. I disagree strongly that he'll ever be anything more than a 18-24 minute backup on a playoff team. He's been very solid in that role but he's not there are at least 20-25 PFs in the league that bring more to the table. If your starting Booker your likely losing the battle at PF.
Secondly, Booker is still on his rookie deal but that will be up after next season. Once he's off his rookie contract, he's no longer offers the cap value as a productive rookie. Once he signs that new contract, he's likely an overpaid backup at that point. So IMO, get value while you can now. Don't overvalue your young players. Not everyone needs to spend 8 years in the same jersey, especially backups. If you can get another guy like Booker or get a pick to draft a guy to fill a similar role for the next 3-4 years than you should do it.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 7:57 pm
by Zonkerbl
OMG, worst advice ever. Don't overvalue your young guys, so trade them for overpriced veterans? Really?
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 8:55 pm
by Dat2U
Who said trade Booker for overpriced veterans? Basically I'm saying trade Booker before he becomes an overpriced veteran backup.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 9:24 pm
by Zonkerbl
So who would you trade him for?
Another young player, thus contradicting yourself? Or an overpriced vet?
Just not getting the "trade your valuable young asset before he becomes an old overpriced one" logic. Sounds like buy high, sell low.
I would get "trade your valuable young but redundant at PF asset for a similarly valuable young backup PG," for example. I would get "the only valuable asset you have is booker, who is playing above the current value of his contract, so if you want to get something valuable in return, he's your best bet."
But "dump the bum become some day he will be old and overpriced?"
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 10:55 pm
by montestewart
I'd assumed Dat2U meant get a player similar to Booker with more years on his rookie contract, or a player of similar value at a different position (PG, wing) with the same number of years left, basically checking out another player in the quest for long term pieces for a contender. That's in line with what he and others have said in the past. I'm not in any big hurry to get rid of Booker, but if you don't think he's a long term piece, it makes sense to try and get value in return now.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 11:14 pm
by MF23
I agree with Zonkerbl, the team should only take value for booker. Value meaning comparable productivity and upside. His jump shot is getting better and better. He's solid off the court. The fact he can spread the court with his improving shot has value for the Wizards. Keeping him Ves and Saraphin isn't ideal because their age+similar positions so this thread makes sense. However you can't just throw value away because it's time to resign them off their rookie contracts. That's just lazy and counterproductive towards building a contender.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Fri Oct 5, 2012 11:57 pm
by tontoz
This thread had some real comedy potential until Nate 's post.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Sat Oct 6, 2012 1:32 am
by Chocolate City Jordanaire
Nivek wrote:You just don't understand the genius of Ernie and Ted. Come back later today to give hands11 time to respond.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Sat Oct 6, 2012 1:36 am
by Chocolate City Jordanaire
dandridge 10 wrote:nate33 wrote:Obviously, we don't need all five of Nene, Okafor, Seraphin, Vesely and Booker. Ideally, one of them would be traded to acquire a SF.
Nene is the best of the group and is therefore a keeper. Seraphin and Vesely are really high upside prospects who probably lack the notoriety to achieve a fair trade value, so they won't be traded. That really only leaves Booker and Okafor as potential trading chips.
If we could trade Okafor for a true small forward with roughly equivalent talent (i.e., an average starter), I'm sure most on this board would leap at the opportunity. The problem is, there really isn't anyone out there available who belongs to a team with a surplus of SF's who is in need of a solid big man.
I'm not interested in trading Booker at this time. He is emerging as the heart and soul of this team, and if he continues to improve at the rate he has improved so far, he might end up as a starting caliber PF.
I agree with you on Booker. Watching last nights scrimmage, he just looks like a man amongst boys in there, even if he is undersized. Dude is strong and fast. If he can continue to improve on his outside shot and work on his handle, he could a very good player for us. Okafor would be my choice to trade...he will give us much needed rebounds, but he is not our future.
I think they'd be better of shipping out Chris Singleton and just playing Booker out of position at SF. Trevor brings it. He's flexible enough to guard a C like Dwight Howard, yet he's got the speed and quickness to guard some SFs, if not most. Booker seems to be willing to add some range to his shot. He's good enough off the dribble to drive and dunk.
While Booker would be a good trade asset, and I admit I've suggested trading him because he's the loser in a numbers game; I think I would keep Trevor at SF and trade Singleton if I had a choice.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Sat Oct 6, 2012 1:41 am
by Chocolate City Jordanaire
Dat2U wrote:Who said trade Booker for overpriced veterans? Basically I'm saying trade Booker before he becomes an overpriced veteran backup.
That is the rationale for trading Booker. If the Wizards are going to force him to wait for minutes behind $27M in PFs of Nene backed by Okafor, (when Seraphin plays); and since Vesely is a PF primarily, then trade Booker before you're forced to let him go for nothing or overpay.
The travesty was drafting Singleton, whose just not that good, and Vesely as a SF, when he can't play the position well at all. Booker was a good pick from a season earlier. He's a very good athlete who has been effective on the court. Yet, he seems like the guy who will be forced out of the rotation due to his lack of size at PF.
I agree with Dat's premise that they might as well be proactive and trade before Booker's RFA year comes up IF all they're going to do is overpay to keep him. Do not trade him for an overpriced veteran, however.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Sat Oct 6, 2012 1:47 am
by Chocolate City Jordanaire
1. The best trade the Wizards could make IMO for a G is probably Okafor for Kevin Martin.
2. A simple trade idea for a guard is Chris Singleton to POR for Nolan Smith. (If that gives the Wizards too many Gs, then send them Jordan Crawford.)
3. Singleton and Crawford for Will Barton, Nolan Smith, and Luke Babbitt/POR draft pick works, too.
Nolan Smith might not be any good at all, but he won't be as inefficient as Crawford. Smith is a sharp kid whose dad was a Bullet. He has local ties. Like Shelvin Mack, Nolan Smith was a winner in college. Will Barton can flat out ball. He also has local ties. He handles the ball well enough to even play some PG at 6'6". He can do a little bit of everything and is IMO a steal of this draft. Luke Babbitt can shoot well if open. Portland has Batum, Matthews, Lillard on their roster. They might see Crawford's numbers and see him as a reliable bench scorer.
Simple trade ideas like this one are doable, but not if the Wizards think Jordan Crawford and Chris Singleton are quality players who fit this team's needs best moving forward.
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Sat Oct 6, 2012 3:20 am
by truwizfan4evr
Who has more upside Trevor Booker or Jan?
Re: You guys need to pull off a trade for a guard
Posted: Sat Oct 6, 2012 3:50 am
by Jimmy Recard
truwizfan4evr wrote:Who has more upside Trevor Booker or Jan?
Jan without question. You can't teach size.
Having said that, Book was by far my favourite Wizard last season. Loved his overall hustle and aggression he played with in the paint, and just the overall energy he brought every night. He seems very coachable too. It's a shame he's about 2-3 inches short for his ideal position.