Sign Livingston Longterm ASAP #1 Priority Thread!!

[WizarDynasty]

another week gone by and EG and the SAvior are still leaving our future BBIQ cornerstone up to chance.

[Upper Decker]

Honestly i dont know who is worse livingston or pargo. Livingstons lack of ability to apply any pressure on the defense is amazing. The only thing he can do is post up smaller pg's, however, he never generates good looks. His shots are always 14 foot turn arounds. Very andray blatche. This thread is a joke.

[tontoz]

I think i could make a bigger impact on the game than Livingston.

[WizarDynasty]

you keep him for his bbiq and ability to diagnose defenses. He is a backup point guard if you haven't read the thread already. He compliments john wall's weaknesses, not duplicates john walls strengths, the most important weakness he compliments of john wall is john wall's lack of hi bbiq while actually being on the court. NO point in rehashing points that i have already developed. Livingston is a backup point guard, with off the chart bbiq and needs to the wizards longterm backup point guard because of hi BBIQ, not his defensive ability or ability to dominate of offense. If he was that good, he would be a starter. A career backup with outstanding basketball iq is a very rare commodity in the nba.

[Upper Decker]

Pretty much every team except indiana has a better backup pg than washington. NOH has brian roberts, who's smoking livingston. Who is roberts?? Ive never heard of him before.

Next question, who's the wores 3 point shooter: wall or livingston?

[TGW]

Wizards Dynasty...I'm honestly curious. Do you smoke meth? Honestly.

[montestewart]

Wizards Dynasty...I'm honestly curious. Do you smoke meth? Honestly.

And if you do, where can I get some?

[hands11]

So I heard the Wizards signed Livingston.

When is he supposed to join the team ?

[Upper Decker]

Wow anyone see the livingston iso to end the 1st half vs. the LAL? Two words, winning time!! Guys elite, WizD on to something, sign him now!!

*please consider the highly sarcastic nature of this post before reacting*

[hands11]

Has Livingston hit more then one outside shot since he has been here. His two bucket tonight came on post up plays under the basket. Both looked easy. Maybe they should try that more.

Before that, he was 0-8 over four games

[AFM]

Dude is trash. Like the rest of this team. This team is made up of D League players and players other teams have repeatedly cut. One of the worst rosters of all time.

[hands11]

Dude is trash. Like the rest of this team. This team is made up of D League players and players other teams have repeatedly cut. One of the worst rosters of all time.

Once they get Wall back out there, this PG situation will get worked out.

[AFM]

I have no doubt about that. But what about the rest of the team?
Again, our roster is made up of players that other teams cut.

[BigA]

he a bust

[GhostsOfGil]

he a bust

I thought this was gonna get old but I LOL every time I read it.

[BigA]

he a bust

I thought this was gonna get old but I LOL every time I read it.

I'm so beaten down as a fan that this is, sincerely, the only way I can react to this team.

"He a bust" is this year's "X is suck."

[hands11]

I have no doubt about that. But what about the rest of the team?
Again, our roster is made up of players that other teams cut.

Big post for those that have the patience to read it.

First, what team doesn't have players from other teams? That really isn't the issue. Getting the team to gel so they get the most from the talent they have is. They have been in games. They have played well at times. They even beat a Miami team whos big three all produced really well.

They didn't have to struggle this bad. Now I'm not making the agreement that this team has lots of established talent, but its not don't totally lack talent either. Its other things that are more common sense and obvious that have caused the slow start which is making them look worse then the talent they have. Let keep in mind, they have been in most games.

Here is a break down.

-Lots of new players that don't have defined rolls trying to learn to play together (time can and will solve that)
-No starting quality PG to help bring all these new pieces together (Crawford helps. Wall will help more)
-Injuries to the most talented of the group. Wall and Nene ( Nene is back and getting in better shape)
-Injuries to even the support pieces. Trevor A, Booker, Price
-A new coach who given these challenges messed up in the worst way by not starting a line up that combined the better options for PG and a #1 and #2 scoring option. Crawford should have started from day 1 and he needed to put your more established players out there to compliment that. At least one needed to be able to score. Starting Beal was the wrong thing to do to him and the team. I think it has slowed his development and the teams development.

So

-- Lots of new player and constantly changing line ups because Randy did not find the right starting line up from the start nor at any point this year. They added Okafor, Trevor A, Webster, AJ Price, Beal, Pargo, Barron and now Livingston. Nene was only with the team as of the end of last year and he wasn't even healthy to play the first 8 games. This is either a huge blunder by Randy or a purposeful tank. I think it was the first thing.

-- PG has been a problem all year. Specially since there are so many new pieces. Hell, look how LA has been struggling and they have Kobe and Howard. Adding lots of new player is tough for any team. We were starting AJ Price for God sake. Now it's not even that Price is total suck but he was not a starter ready that's for sure. He made progress but he had up games and down games or was up and down in most games. That crippled the team right there. He didn't have the established game and swag that you need in a starting PG. Specially on a team with so many new pieces. He should have never started. That is on Randy. That is probably the most obviously blunder. I have been saying that since off offseason.

--Lack of putting a #1 scoring option in the starting line up. So after blowing it by starting Price, he didn't even put a player out there with the staring line up that would create some structure that would have given the team a chance. Beal is a 19 year old kid with poor handles and a inconstant shot. He doesn't know the pro game yet. Trevor A is a 3rd option. Booker was injured and not a #1 or proven #2 option. Then they used Singleton a PF which is a new position for a second year player who isn't a #1 or #2 scoring option. And then you put either Booker or Singleton out there with Okafor who is a #3 option and a bad pairing for either. That is terrible. There were obvious better option and Randy didn't do it. Grade F

So you have a team with all these new pieces without a player a PG capable of leading a team without any #1 or #2 scoring option on the court with him. And even given that, they have been in game because the players that can do better were there, Randy just played them later in the game. You can't start every game down 10 after the first quarter and expect to win.

Crawford - He should have started from day one. He clearly was most prepared for that role.
Webster or Martin should have been the starting SG
Trevor A would have been fine with those two. He would be done what he does. Defense and 3rd option
Kevin S - Kid has holes in his game but he can score in the post. He is learning to rebound
Okafor - established average player who would have anchored the post with rebounding, blocks, 4th option

Kevin was the young player to start not Beal. Kevin is in his 3rd year. He knows the NBA game better. He has tons of upside that and the talent to reach it. He was the one to develop to start the year. They have way more time to bring Beal along.

Had Randy started this line up once Kevin S was healthy, it would have helped this team of so many new players gel much more quickly. Regardless of all the other issues, this was a team of lots of new player that needed to gel. That would be true even if Wall was healthy. They would have played more consistently and not dug 10 pt deficits after one quarter every game. Players could have settled into their roles and expanded their games quicker. They could have focused on developing Kevins power game more. That starting five would have started the game with much more structure. Feed Kevin in the post to start the game. In out game with Webster/Martin who are bother better outside shooters then Beal. Trevor would have filled in taking a few shots. Okafor for a few post moves. Crawford filling in with a few shots and driving while chucking some and probing the defense. They could have had that same starting line up for most the year except now instead of Trevor A at SF, you would have Singleton.

vs

Price, Beal, Trevor A, Booker, Okafor
No swag PG, 19 year old rookie wet behind the ears, vet SF 3rd option as a #1 or #2, smallish injured PF, and Okafor. That is a beyond stupid starting 5 compared to what they could have done. And they missed out on focusing on developing Kevin instead of throwing Beal into the 10 foot deep end.

My starting line up is way better and makes way more sense. Randy's starting line up have been pure failure all year.

Moving Forward.

All these new players on the roster will continue to gel even with one armed tied behind their backs with Randys line ups, I can see that happening some already anyway. He has finally put Crawford as PG given he had no other choice. That is not a coach that is leading. Webster is now starting even if it is at the wrong slot.

So he has two more moves he needs to make. Get Beal out of the starting line up and start Kevin or Nene.
Eventually Kevin or Nene will get solved with or without Randy making the right coaching decision. If he doesn't put Kevin in there, eventually Nene will get healthy enough to make that the obvious move. So eventually we will see Nene/Okafor or Kevin/Okafor or Kevin/Nene. When we do, we will play better.

So the only real coaching move left to make is to get the 19 year old Beal kid out of the starting line up for right now. He doesn't have to start to develop. Harden didn't his first two years. I have no faith Randy will do it though. I have no faith he will maximize the guard rotation once Wall and Price are healthy. Crawford should get moved to back up PG with Price as the 3rd option. Webster or Martin should start with Beal and one of them backing up the starter. Next year, Beal can start if he earns it. By then, Crawford would have gotten plenty of back up PG to show if that is the answer for him or not. If not, maybe Price proves he can do it by them and Crawford is moved to SG again.

Wall/Crawford/Price
Webster or Martin/Beal

They should not be rushing Beal so much. There is no reason for it. Let the kid grow up a little. He isn't going anywhere. Lets see what we have in players we need to decide if we are going to keep who are more ready to produce as professional NBA players today. Let the team gel and find their roles. A coaches job is to give them the best chance to win. He is making it so that once they get more healthy, more player will rot on the bench and likely get moved before we get the best from them. Its just Fd up. Right now Ves is the best example of that. This is going to lead to more changing rosters and line up that will need to gel again. I have been watching this for at least 3 years now. That is a big reason they start slow every year. They never establish enough of the roster. This team is in desperate need of some stability. That will go a long way to maximizing the talent.

The blow it with Dray.
The are not developing Kevin and Ves right now as the main focus but instead are focused on Beal.

Kevin has played two years off the bench. Good. Start him now. He has earned it.
Ves should be getting minutes off the bench even if it is just 5 minutes.
Beal Stop starting him. Let him develop and earn it.
Start Webster or Martin. Both has been in the league long enough to know where their rss is and both need to be given an opportunity so show if they can step it up. Both should be ready mentally to do it. Both could prove to be valuable keepers.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

I have no doubt about that. But what about the rest of the team?
Again, our roster is made up of players that other teams cut.

Big post for those that have the patience to read it.

What team doesn't have players from other teams. That really isn't the issue. Gelling while Randy put out bad line ups and is constantly changing them is the bigger issue. They have been in games. They have played well at times. They even beat a Miami team who's big three all had really good games.

Its lots of things with this team and it all adds up to why they have struggled. They didn't have to struggle this bad. Now I'm not making the agreement that this team lots of established talent, but its not that they totally lack talent either. There are other things that are more common sense and obvious that have caused the slow start which is making what they have look worse then it is. Let keep in mind, they have been in most games.

So many new player, poor line ups and injuries is a bigger issue then lack of talent.

-Lots of new players that don't have defined rolls trying to learn to play together (time can and will solve that)
-No starting quality PG to help bring all these new pieces together (Crawford helps. Wall will help more)
-Injuries to the most talented of the group. Wall and Nene ( Nene is back and getting in better shape)
-Injuries to even the support pieces. Trevor A, Booker, Price
-A new coach who was clearly given a challenges messed up in the worst way by not starting a line up that combined the better options for PG and a #1 and #2 scoring option. Crawford should have started from day 1 and you need to put your more established players out there to compliment that. At least one needed to be able to score. Starting Beal was the wrong thing to do to him and the team. I think it has slowed his development and the teams development.

-- Lots of new player and constantly changing line ups because Randy did not find the right starting line up from the start or not at any point this year. So you have lots of new players in bad lines and you constantly change them ? They added Okafor, Trevor A, Webster, AJ Price, Beal, Pargo, Barron and now Livingston. Nene was only with the team as of the end of last year and he wasn't even healthy to play the first 8 games. This is either a huge blunder by Randy or a purposeful tank. I think it was the first thing.

-- PG has been a problem all year and that has been a huge problem for this team. Specially since there are so many new pieces. Hell, look how LA has been struggling and they have Kobe and Howard. Adding lots of new player is tough for every team. We were starting AJ Price for God sake. Now it's not even that Price is total suck but he was not a starter that's for sure. He made progress but he had up games and down games or was up and down in most games. That crippled the team right there. He has holes in his game so they didn't have the established game and swag that you need in a starting PG. Specially on a team with so many new pieces. He should have never started. That is on Randy. That is probably the most obviously blunder. I have been saying that since off offseason.

--Lack of putting a #1 scoring option in the starting line up. So after blowing it by starting Price, he didn't even put a player out there with the staring line up that would create some structure that would have given the team a chance. Beal is a 19 year old kid with poor handles and a inconstant shot. And he doesn't even know the pro game yet. Trevor A is a 3rd option. Booker was injured and not a #1 or proven #2 option. Then they used Singleton a PF which is a new position for a second year player who isn't a #1 or #2 scoring option. And then you put either Booker or Singleton out there with Okafor who is a #3 option and a bad pairing for either. That is terrible. There were obvious better option and Randy didn't do it. Grade F

So you have a team with all these new pieces without a player a PG capable of leading a team without any #1 or #2 scoring option on the court with him. And even given that, they have been in game because the players to do better were there, Randy just played them later in the game. You can't start every game down 10 after the first quarter.

Crawford - He should have started from day one. He clearly was most prepared for that role.
Webster or Martin should have been the starting SG
Trevor A would have been fine with those two. He would be done what he does. Defense and 3rd option
Kevin S - Kid has holes in his game but he can score in the post. He is learning to rebound
Okafor - established average player who would have anchored the post with rebounding, blocks, 4th option

Kevin was the young player to start not Beal. Kevin is in his 3rd year. He knows the NBA game better. He has tones of upside that we need to develop and the talent to reach it. He was the one to develop to start the year. They have way more time to bring Beal along.

Had Randy started this line up once Kevin S was healthy, it would have helped this team of so many new players gel much more quickly and regardless of all the other issue, this was a team of lots of new player that needed to gel. That would be true even if Wall was healthy. They would have played more consistently and not dug 10 pt deficits after one quarter ever game that they had to dig out of. Players could have settled into their roles and expanded their games quicker. They could have focused on developing Kevins power game more. Look at that starting five and its easy to see how they would have started the game with much more structure. Feed Kevin in the post to start the game. In out game with Webster/Martin who are bother better outside shooters then Beal. Trevor would have filled in taking a few shots. Okafor for a few post moves. Crawford filling in with a few shots and driving while chucking some and probing the defense. They could have had that same starting line up for most the year except now instead of Trevor A at SF, you would have Singleton.

vs Price, Beal, Trevor A, Booker, Okafor
No swag PG, 19 year old rookie wet behind the ears, vet SF 3rd option as a #1 or #2, smallish injured PF, and Okafor. That is a beyond stupid starting 5 compared to what they could have done. And they missed out on focusing on developing Kevin instead of throwing Beal into the 10 foot deep end.

My starting line up is way better and makes way more sense. Randy's starting line up have been pure failure all year.

Moving Forward.

All these new players on the roster will continue to gel even with one armed tied behind their backs with Randys line ups, I can see that happening some anyway. He has finally put Crawford as PG giving he had no other choice. That is not a coach that is leading. Webster is now starting even if it is at the wrong slot and Beal is still in there starting and struggling.

So he has two more moves he needs to make. Get Beal out of the starting line up and start Kevin or Nene.
Eventually Kevin or Nene will get solved with or without Randy making the right coaching decision. If he doesn't put Kevin in there, eventually Nene will get healthy enough to make that the obvious move. So eventually we will see Nene/Okafor or Kevin/Okafor or Kevin/Nene. When we do, we will play better.

So the only real coaching move left to make is to get the 19 year old Beal kid out of the starting line up for right now. He doesn't have to start to develop. Harden didn't his first two years. I have no faith he will do it though. I have no faith he will maximize the guard rotation once Wall and Price are healthy. Crawford should get moved to back up PG with Price as the 3rd option. Webster or Martin should start with Beal and one of them backing up the starter. Next year, Beal can start if he earns it. By then, Crawford would have gotten plenty of back up PG to show if that is the answer for him or not. If not, maybe Price proves he can do it by them and Crawford is moved to SG again.

Wall/Crawford/Price
Webster/Martin/Beal

They should not be rushing Beal so much. There is no reason for it. Let the kid grow up a little. He isn't going anywhere. Lets see what we have in players we need to decide if we are going to keep who are more ready to produce as professional NBA players today. Let the team gel and find their roles. A coaches job is to give them the best chance to win. Randy is not doing that. Randy's line up and not maximizing the player development. He is making it so that once they get more healthy, more player will rot on the bench and likely get moved before we get the best from them. Its just Fd up. Right now Ves is the best example of that. This is going to lead to more changing rosters and line up that will need to gel again. I have been watching it for at least 3 years now. That is a big reason they start slow every year. They never establish enough of the roster. This team is in desperate need of some stability. That will go a long way to maximizing the talent they have and allowing it to develop before they are up for new contracts so they team is left having to over pay before they have the information they need.

The blow it with Dray.
The are no developing Kevin and Ves right now as the main focus but instead are focused on Beal.

Kevin has played two years off the bench. Good. Start him now. He has earned it.
Ves should be getting minutes off the bench even if it is just 5 minutes.
Beal has done nothing in the NBA to earn a starting spot. Stop starting him. Let him develop and earn it.
Start Webster or Martin. Both has been in the league long enough to know where their rss are and both need to be given an opportunity so show if they can step it up. Both should be ready mentally to do it. Both could prove to be valuable keepers.

Wittman has to go, I appreciate how he's gotten the team to play more defensive-minded but I don't view him as a legit coach. At times I think the Wizards need to go with a somewhat younger coach with a passion and knowledge of the game that may vibe better with the players like a Sam Cassell, or a much younger coach with less NBA experience who may build a better rapport with the players, get them having fun, while getting the very best of them at the same time; I always wonder what type of job Shaka Smart of VCU would do in DC seeing how well he's done in the college ranks. I also am interested to see what Don Newman would do given his time in San Antonio and what seems to be an even-keel demeanor; he doesn't seem like the type to chew a player out publicly (think Wittman on Seraphin) but there's a seriousness about him. I get so sick of Wittman's silly facial expressions/ body language and though the players like him, it's possible that he's lost them as was the case with Flip Saunders. As far back as when Flip Saunders was coaching I always viewed Wittman as arrogant and egocentric, if he's not going play the right people and if he doesn't have what it takes to drive home the importance of ball security so that the team stops squandering scoring opportunity after scoring opportunity right after a situation that they can capitalize from arises, then he needs to get out. I'm tired of his on-court coaching of Seraphin, IMO it only shows how the Wizards do things in a dysfunctional manner, I think it should be reserved for the practice floor and not done publicly as frequently as it is done.

Crawford - PG (experience, passing ability, and scoring ability)
Beal- SG (scoring potential, unselfish and balanced overall play)
Webster- SF (shooting ability, experience and understanding of the game, better than expected athleticism)
Seraphin-PF (low post scorimg prowess)
Okafor C- *until Nene is fully healthy or near full health

I can see Crawford being traded because he does his own thing too often (not well enough) and doesn't play within the team concept for long enough; along with Beal being the third overall pick, the Wizards may be trying to get him acclimated to a larger starting role at SG if trading Crawford is in mind so that he's ready to go should he be paired with Wall this season.

The team needs offense at the outset of games. Seraphin doesn't seem to even know when he's facing a guy regarded as elite and brings his game night in and night out though his shots may not fall on a given night. For the most part he's a consistent offensive player, he should be inserted into the starting lineup. I respect Singleton's effort at PF, but the team needs easy baskets whenever they can get them.

Though Beal struggles on offense I think the team can protect him by putting as much offense around him as possible, allowing him to play within himself without being overly reliant on his offense.

[blazinskillz]

Hand11 I don't know what you have against Beal starting. I mean, who else is gonna start? The wizards are the only team to not average 90 pts this season, its obvious they need offense. You put the cub out there with the wolves to make him mold into a man. What negative experience is he learning by starting? At worst, he's learning what it takes to be in the NBA and guarding starters(and he's doing a great job on defense) It's not like we're San Antonio or Miami where we could afford to bring a player along slowly, this team doesn't have the personnel for that. It'll be stupid for the worst team in the league, not to play one of their better players minutes.

I do agree Wittman needs to go.

[tontoz]

Livingston just sucks. He isn't good at anything.