RealGM

Before all the Wizard faithful get up in arms hear me out.

First off let me say I am a die hard Knicks fan, however, because of where I resided I got a chance to see a lot of Wiz bball over the years. Its funny to hear how some fans call the team a "minor league" for the NBA...but no so funny if you have to live with being a fan of such a team. However, in talking to one I offered this suggestion (which was scoffed at), in offering the suggestion I asked that he removed any emotional attachment from the team and look at it objectively...which is what I will ask of you...here goes...

Its time to trade John Wall.

Its not a move that will be popular...its not a move that will make much sense on the surface...BUT...if done correctly and in conjunction with hiring a head coach with vision and structure...it will be the best move the franchise has made in years.

I asked my friend to name me a coach before or after Eddie Jordan that had some type of visible structure and a vision for where he saw the team going. After a solid 5 minutes...he couldn't...and I'd bet a lot of you would be hard pressed to think of one as well. The coaching in DC has been abysmal to say the very least and there is no way you can say the talent hasn't been there...every player that leaves DC goes on to play a major role with their new teams. Very few exceptions other than those who stayed hurt (Arenas) or those who were on the downside (Jamison).

Can Wall benefit from this environment?? When he returns is he the type of player that can lift them to playoff contention?? The answers are no and no.

In knowing this, why not send Wall to a team or a situation where he can benefit as a player and the team can benefit going forward?? There are plenty of teams on the verge of playoff contention or already in that can really use a dynamo at PG. Indiana and Utah are two teams that come to mind. Paul George or Enes Kanter would look mighty good in DC blue and red. Negotiate some draft picks and young players and see if you can get the best deal for both parties. But its clear that Wall will benefit from a change of scenery...and since the Wizards are years from contending on and off the floor...it would greatly benefit them to get what they can for Wall as well and start fresh. Bottom up. New attitude...less pressure...more togetherness equals a solid locker room. Not that Wall is a head case or cancer or any of that. He's a great kid with a good future but I do not think that future is at the Verizon Center.

First thing is first...get a head coach on the bench that has a system...a willingness to teach...and a passion to win. All 3 can turn a franchise around. Patrick Ewing/Rod Strickland/Jeff Weber and others come to mind. Get one and give them the keys to the ship minus John Wall...but plus a boatload of assets and flexibility not seen in the franchise in years.

I am sure some will disagree but I think this is something worth giving thought to. I like when you guys are competitive...DC is a good town for basketball.

Thoughts??

didnt the wiz fans go down this road before with Webber?

How did that turn out again?

Webber was a bit different...but it still falls under what I said. The coaching structure has not been there and it extends way back to that "era". They had no idea what to do with Webber. In this case Wall is a commodity that will largely be misused because of the current state of the team. So why not maximize what you can get for him?

Can Wall benefit from this environment?? When he returns is he the type of player that can lift them to playoff contention?? The answers are no and no.

I didnt read all before I commented before.

but for this, Wizards simply fail at drafting over the years. the Jan pick, and the (maybe Beal here, give him more time I guess)

Wall is piece of the pie. Need a star SF and Star SG to go along side Wall.

KS been nice as a PF.

So a Center is whats needed there for the bigs.

In this generation of NBA games, you dont get far unless you on a super team.

So trading away star talent while waiting on more star talent wont get you anywhere in theory.

Wizards hold Wall, and get a all star SF/SG/C in the draft, this team could then pull a OKC.

Right now they simply not doing that with the talent they have.

I dont blame the coach that much here. the team lacks talent. simple as that.


a new management of Draft and trades would be a stepping stone to improving this team.

nykfan757 wrote:Webber was a bit different...but it still falls under what I said. The coaching structure has not been there and it extends way back to that "era". They had no idea what to do with Webber. In this case Wall is a commodity that will largely be misused because of the current state of the team. So why not maximize what you can get for him?

but thats the thing. what would they get for a Wall trade, that wont put them back to where they currently are "Bobcats 2.0" ?

Trading the few talent the team has for lesser talent/ beaten up vets (nene)

what good will that get the Wizards in the long run, when now days in current NBA culture, its common for super stars to now join single teams and dominate. only superteams will counter super teams. why trade away the pieces of a superteam to go backwards? thats what I am asking.

Why shoot ourselves in our one good foot?

After this season, when Whitt's contract is up, why dont we just............. hire a new coach like you suggest, but keep JW?

I've read your post through a few times and its the only reason you've given. If the coaching is the problem (Whitt hasnt been great but the players seem to respond to him) then why not just change the problem instead of trading a potential/borderline stud and setting ourselves even futher back?

When Wall and Nene are healthy, we are a decent team. I think you are right, with another coach with a system that is actually built around the talent on the team, we could be a playoff team again.

Grunfeld is the real problem with the Wizards. A change of staff from top to bottom, change of coaching team and we will be relevant again. Add in a probably lotto pick next draft (hopefully not botched by EG, but a solid pick by whoever replaces him *fingers crossed*) and we have a bright future. But as for this year, its a write off. But that doesnt mean our core has to go. Not at all.

I'm not opposed to trading Wall, but there isn't much point to discussing this in the abstract. Your original post can be summarized as: Wizards should trade Wall for Something Good.

Okay.

Problem is, no one knows exactly what Wall will be like when he's able to play again. Will his shooting be better? Will he reduce turnovers? Will he figure out how to help his team win? Dunno. Nobody does. That could work in the Wizards favor in trade talks, I guess.

nykfan757 wrote:Before all the Wizard faithful get up in arms hear me out.

First off let me say I am a die hard Knicks fan, however, because of where I resided I got a chance to see a lot of Wiz bball over the years. Its funny to hear how some fans call the team a "minor league" for the NBA...but no so funny if you have to live with being a fan of such a team. However, in talking to one I offered this suggestion (which was scoffed at), in offering the suggestion I asked that he removed any emotional attachment from the team and look at it objectively...which is what I will ask of you...here goes...

Its time to trade John Wall.

Its not a move that will be popular...its not a move that will make much sense on the surface...BUT...if done correctly and in conjunction with hiring a head coach with vision and structure...it will be the best move the franchise has made in years.

I asked my friend to name me a coach before or after Eddie Jordan that had some type of visible structure and a vision for where he saw the team going. After a solid 5 minutes...he couldn't...and I'd bet a lot of you would be hard pressed to think of one as well. The coaching in DC has been abysmal to say the very least and there is no way you can say the talent hasn't been there...every player that leaves DC goes on to play a major role with their new teams. Very few exceptions other than those who stayed hurt (Arenas) or those who were on the downside (Jamison).

Can Wall benefit from this environment?? When he returns is he the type of player that can lift them to playoff contention?? The answers are no and no.

In knowing this, why not send Wall to a team or a situation where he can benefit as a player and the team can benefit going forward?? There are plenty of teams on the verge of playoff contention or already in that can really use a dynamo at PG. Indiana and Utah are two teams that come to mind. Paul George or Enes Kanter would look mighty good in DC blue and red. Negotiate some draft picks and young players and see if you can get the best deal for both parties. But its clear that Wall will benefit from a change of scenery...and since the Wizards are years from contending on and off the floor...it would greatly benefit them to get what they can for Wall as well and start fresh. Bottom up. New attitude...less pressure...more togetherness equals a solid locker room. Not that Wall is a head case or cancer or any of that. He's a great kid with a good future but I do not think that future is at the Verizon Center.

First thing is first...get a head coach on the bench that has a system...a willingness to teach...and a passion to win. All 3 can turn a franchise around. Patrick Ewing/Rod Strickland/Jeff Weber and others come to mind. Get one and give them the keys to the ship minus John Wall...but plus a boatload of assets and flexibility not seen in the franchise in years.

I am sure some will disagree but I think this is something worth giving thought to. I like when you guys are competitive...DC is a good town for basketball.

Thoughts??

You don't know the Wizards team well enough to come in here suggesting that the team trades away its most important player. What you mean by more togetherness and a new attitude, I have no idea. At least be a Wizards fan before you start talking crazy like that because I'm pretty sure you don't/haven't followed the Wizards as deeply as myself or other posters in here. Pretty insulting suggestion.

nykfan757 wrote:Before all the Wizard faithful get up in arms hear me out.

First off let me say I am a die hard Knicks fan, however, because of where I resided I got a chance to see a lot of Wiz bball over the years. Its funny to hear how some fans call the team a "minor league" for the NBA...but no so funny if you have to live with being a fan of such a team. However, in talking to one I offered this suggestion (which was scoffed at), in offering the suggestion I asked that he removed any emotional attachment from the team and look at it objectively...which is what I will ask of you...here goes...

Its time to trade John Wall.

Its not a move that will be popular...its not a move that will make much sense on the surface...BUT...if done correctly and in conjunction with hiring a head coach with vision and structure...it will be the best move the franchise has made in years.

nykfan757, I have proposed a few John Wall trades. A lot of Wizard fans have overrated Wall for quite some time. I am not against trading Wall if value is returned. The problem is I am not sure whether Wall found a jump shot and I have not seen Wall perform next to Beal and with this revamped, significantly improved roster. I think the Wizards need to see what they have before they trade Wall.

(Forget about this 0-12 aberration of a start. They've got Livingston and Price backing him now. Beal can shoot if he's open, and he will be with Wall penetrating and passing. Nene, Okafor, and Seraphin are better in the post collectively than anything Wall ever had before. Webster can hit a three and he is a mature, good, veteran. Chris Singleton can hit threes and he is much improved from last season. Vesely … is still tall. No, he plays better with Wall running full speed.)

What I would do is see how he looks after returning from this injury, before pulling any moves. I would wait 10-15 games, nykfan757. Wall is not untradeable IMO, but I would hate to make a mistake on him only to watch him blow up elsewhere and not get value in return. Wall will be better with this Wizards roster. How much better? Also, can he stay healthy now? I think this injury could be a big reason to trade him in the future. Knee injury on speedy guy scares me.

I asked my friend to name me a coach before or after Eddie Jordan that had some type of visible structure and a vision for where he saw the team going. After a solid 5 minutes...he couldn't...and I'd bet a lot of you would be hard pressed to think of one as well. The coaching in DC has been abysmal to say the very least and there is no way you can say the talent hasn't been there...every player that leaves DC goes on to play a major role with their new teams. Very few exceptions other than those who stayed hurt (Arenas) or those who were on the downside (Jamison).

Can Wall benefit from this environment?? When he returns is he the type of player that can lift them to playoff contention?? The answers are no and no.

nykfan757, I believe Eddie was wronged.

History says Arenas carried the Wizards to many wins. So did Eddie Jordan. His best coaching was the regular season right before he was fired. No Arenas (Gil played 8 games and tried to go in the playoffs before shutting it down), many injuries, Gs were Antonio Daniels, Roger Mason Jr, and DeShawn Stevenson. Eddie Jordan did some beautiful coaching that season.

He even beat the Cavs twice in the playoffs before losing the series 4-2.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2008.html

The 1-10 start that next season got him fired, but the Wizards had injuries to Haywood and they faced a very tough schedule. Grunfeld didn't treat EJ right, firing him 11 games after a playoff performance.

I truly believe not treating this coach and several players right has been the reason the Wizards have stunk. When Jordan left the Wizards lost a class act. No players were thrown under the bus. There was some carping between the veterans and the young players, but who did EG draft? EJ had Blatche, Young, and McGee 5 seasons ago as his bench. And the GM and owner fired the coach.

I think history has fully vindicated EJ. What was his record? Like Blatche said the other day, how are the Wizards doing?

In knowing this, why not send Wall to a team or a situation where he can benefit as a player and the team can benefit going forward?? There are plenty of teams on the verge of playoff contention or already in that can really use a dynamo at PG. Indiana and Utah are two teams that come to mind. Paul George or Enes Kanter would look mighty good in DC blue and red. Negotiate some draft picks and young players and see if you can get the best deal for both parties. But its clear that Wall will benefit from a change of scenery...and since the Wizards are years from contending on and off the floor...it would greatly benefit them to get what they can for Wall as well and start fresh. Bottom up. New attitude...less pressure...more togetherness equals a solid locker room. Not that Wall is a head case or cancer or any of that. He's a great kid with a good future but I do not think that future is at the Verizon Center.

First thing is first...get a head coach on the bench that has a system...a willingness to teach...and a passion to win. All 3 can turn a franchise around. Patrick Ewing/Rod Strickland/Jeff Weber and others come to mind. Get one and give them the keys to the ship minus John Wall...but plus a boatload of assets and flexibility not seen in the franchise in years.

I am sure some will disagree but I think this is something worth giving thought to. I like when you guys are competitive...DC is a good town for basketball.

Thoughts??

Thanks for this post, nykfan757. I am a die-hard Wizard fan. I get beat up as a Wall hater, when all I care to do is advance his career while improving this team's chances at the same time IF the right deal comes along.

However, I would wait on Wall for the reasons I said above. He might pan out for the Wizards in a big way.

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:

nykfan757 wrote:Before all the Wizard faithful get up in arms hear me out.

First off let me say I am a die hard Knicks fan, however, because of where I resided I got a chance to see a lot of Wiz bball over the years. Its funny to hear how some fans call the team a "minor league" for the NBA...but no so funny if you have to live with being a fan of such a team. However, in talking to one I offered this suggestion (which was scoffed at), in offering the suggestion I asked that he removed any emotional attachment from the team and look at it objectively...which is what I will ask of you...here goes...

Its time to trade John Wall.

Its not a move that will be popular...its not a move that will make much sense on the surface...BUT...if done correctly and in conjunction with hiring a head coach with vision and structure...it will be the best move the franchise has made in years.

I asked my friend to name me a coach before or after Eddie Jordan that had some type of visible structure and a vision for where he saw the team going. After a solid 5 minutes...he couldn't...and I'd bet a lot of you would be hard pressed to think of one as well. The coaching in DC has been abysmal to say the very least and there is no way you can say the talent hasn't been there...every player that leaves DC goes on to play a major role with their new teams. Very few exceptions other than those who stayed hurt (Arenas) or those who were on the downside (Jamison).

Can Wall benefit from this environment?? When he returns is he the type of player that can lift them to playoff contention?? The answers are no and no.

In knowing this, why not send Wall to a team or a situation where he can benefit as a player and the team can benefit going forward?? There are plenty of teams on the verge of playoff contention or already in that can really use a dynamo at PG. Indiana and Utah are two teams that come to mind. Paul George or Enes Kanter would look mighty good in DC blue and red. Negotiate some draft picks and young players and see if you can get the best deal for both parties. But its clear that Wall will benefit from a change of scenery...and since the Wizards are years from contending on and off the floor...it would greatly benefit them to get what they can for Wall as well and start fresh. Bottom up. New attitude...less pressure...more togetherness equals a solid locker room. Not that Wall is a head case or cancer or any of that. He's a great kid with a good future but I do not think that future is at the Verizon Center.

First thing is first...get a head coach on the bench that has a system...a willingness to teach...and a passion to win. All 3 can turn a franchise around. Patrick Ewing/Rod Strickland/Jeff Weber and others come to mind. Get one and give them the keys to the ship minus John Wall...but plus a boatload of assets and flexibility not seen in the franchise in years.

I am sure some will disagree but I think this is something worth giving thought to. I like when you guys are competitive...DC is a good town for basketball.

Thoughts??

You don't know the Wizards team well enough to come in here suggesting that the team trades away its most important player. What you mean by more togetherness and a new attitude, I have no idea. At least be a Wizards fan before you start talking crazy like that because I'm pretty sure you don't/haven't followed the Wizards as deeply as myself or other posters in here. Pretty insulting suggestion.

I feel an outsider can be more objective and not have his judgment clouded by emotion.

Wall is a 22 year old who was drafted a couple years ago, and he performed below expectations. Why is he so important to the Wizards? He is fast and exciting to watch? We think he could be something special in time. Kyrie Irving came in one season later and seems the better player to me. The Wizards could end up with a better PG than Wall if they dealt him IMO.

Not to say they should. I'm just open-minded to CONSIDERING trade ideas. Thinking of moving forward in a different direction is an exercise that needs to be entertained IMO. I just would not make a Wall move right now UNLESS something entirely too good to be true was thrown out there.

A franchise can change quickly with the bounce of a few balls.
Would we even be discussing this now if Wall was playing with AD?
Someone is hyping Wiggins....wonder what would happen if we got him in 2yrs....
I wouldn't trade away our #1 pick YET....because Wizards players tend to win championships when they leave.

One can make a fair argument to trade Wall. Perhaps he is overrated and we could get more value in a trade than his actual value on the court. Or, alternatively, he is a superstar caliber player but must play alongside a team with no star caliber prospects, thus condemning the team to 45-win purgatory. In either case, it could make sense to trade Wall for a very high pick (top 5 to be sure, I'd have to start paying more attention to the draft before coming up with a number), with the premise being to find a high-ceiling prospect but stink for another year or two to add more talent around him.

But other than trading him for a high pick, I just don't see any other rational trade. Nobody is going to trade their young star caliber player (I'm talking Kyrie Irving, Greg Monroe, Anthony Davis... that level of talent) for Wall, and we're not going to trade Wall for a lesser talent or an old player.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:

nykfan757 wrote:Before all the Wizard faithful get up in arms hear me out.

First off let me say I am a die hard Knicks fan, however, because of where I resided I got a chance to see a lot of Wiz bball over the years. Its funny to hear how some fans call the team a "minor league" for the NBA...but no so funny if you have to live with being a fan of such a team. However, in talking to one I offered this suggestion (which was scoffed at), in offering the suggestion I asked that he removed any emotional attachment from the team and look at it objectively...which is what I will ask of you...here goes...

Its time to trade John Wall.

Its not a move that will be popular...its not a move that will make much sense on the surface...BUT...if done correctly and in conjunction with hiring a head coach with vision and structure...it will be the best move the franchise has made in years.

I asked my friend to name me a coach before or after Eddie Jordan that had some type of visible structure and a vision for where he saw the team going. After a solid 5 minutes...he couldn't...and I'd bet a lot of you would be hard pressed to think of one as well. The coaching in DC has been abysmal to say the very least and there is no way you can say the talent hasn't been there...every player that leaves DC goes on to play a major role with their new teams. Very few exceptions other than those who stayed hurt (Arenas) or those who were on the downside (Jamison).

Can Wall benefit from this environment?? When he returns is he the type of player that can lift them to playoff contention?? The answers are no and no.

In knowing this, why not send Wall to a team or a situation where he can benefit as a player and the team can benefit going forward?? There are plenty of teams on the verge of playoff contention or already in that can really use a dynamo at PG. Indiana and Utah are two teams that come to mind. Paul George or Enes Kanter would look mighty good in DC blue and red. Negotiate some draft picks and young players and see if you can get the best deal for both parties. But its clear that Wall will benefit from a change of scenery...and since the Wizards are years from contending on and off the floor...it would greatly benefit them to get what they can for Wall as well and start fresh. Bottom up. New attitude...less pressure...more togetherness equals a solid locker room. Not that Wall is a head case or cancer or any of that. He's a great kid with a good future but I do not think that future is at the Verizon Center.

First thing is first...get a head coach on the bench that has a system...a willingness to teach...and a passion to win. All 3 can turn a franchise around. Patrick Ewing/Rod Strickland/Jeff Weber and others come to mind. Get one and give them the keys to the ship minus John Wall...but plus a boatload of assets and flexibility not seen in the franchise in years.

I am sure some will disagree but I think this is something worth giving thought to. I like when you guys are competitive...DC is a good town for basketball.

Thoughts??

You don't know the Wizards team well enough to come in here suggesting that the team trades away its most important player. What you mean by more togetherness and a new attitude, I have no idea. At least be a Wizards fan before you start talking crazy like that because I'm pretty sure you don't/haven't followed the Wizards as deeply as myself or other posters in here. Pretty insulting suggestion.

I feel an outsider can be more objective and not have his judgment clouded by emotion.

Wall is a 22 year old who was drafted a couple years ago, and he performed below expectations. Why is he so important to the Wizards? He is fast and exciting to watch? We think he could be something special in time. Kyrie Irving came in one season later and seems the better player to me. The Wizards could end up with a better PG than Wall if they dealt him IMO.

Not to say they should. I'm just open-minded to CONSIDERING trade ideas. Thinking of moving forward in a different direction is an exercise that needs to be entertained IMO. I just would not make a Wall move right now UNLESS something entirely too good to be true was thrown out there.

That's fair. Kyrie Irving's play had made wonder if John Wall could be upgraded at the PG position a time or two to be honest, but I do think John Wall is an elite talent and for that reason he shouldn't be regarded as a tradeable piece. Especially not this early in his career. All Irving has on Wall is his ability as a shooter (Wall still averaged 16 ppg). Kyrie Irving turns the basketball over a lot himself when you check his numbers; as of now he's averaging four a game. Look at the bump in fastbreak points when Wall arrived compared to before he got here and you understand his worth to the team more. Where is Cleveland under Irving? The Cavs are ranked lower than the Wizards are without Wall and they may have the better offensive talent. John Wall came close to nine assists his first year and though it dropped a bit in year two, it wasn't far from his rookie numbers. Just to throw more stats at you, you can determine how relevant or irrelevant they are, Steve Nash in his six years in Dallas averaged 8 assists for the first time in his final year despite playing along Nowitzki and other talented players. Irving is averaging less than six.

An elite quarterback often is credited with having the ability to fit passes in tight windows and I think that is true for Wall at the point guard position. No PG on the roster can make passes, push the ball, or draw defenses the way Wall can. Wall's only significant drop from his rookie year to his second year was his three point shooting IMO. If Wall improves his shooting and turns the ball over less---I think he progresses---then I think you see why he's a player you don't trade away but rather continue to build around.

If you want to give him a fair assessment before looking at trades, CCJ, I think 10-15 games isnt enough. I think he'll need to knock thr rust off the wheels. I'm predicting the first 5 games or so to range from mediocre to horrible. He needs to get in game shape, but i think he is smart enough to realise that and will be fine with having his minutes limited for a while.

John is still very young. I am not ready to trade him until we know what we have this year with him. If he hasn't shown improvement, then I think we can move towards trying to find value for him in the summer.

But for now, it'd be foolish to give up on him this soon. Draft day 2010 wasn't that long ago.

Yeah let's trade our best player for trash and shoot ourselves in the foot. Or how about we actually surround him with some nba caliber players for once.

FAH1223 wrote:John is still very young. I am not ready to trade him until we know what we have this year with him. If he hasn't shown improvement, then I think we can move towards trying to find value for him in the summer.
But for now, it'd be foolish to give up on him this soon. Draft day 2010 wasn't that long ago.

What???

The problem is, we won't get close to near value for Wall. We're better off keeping him and letting him develop some more. You don't trade a former #1 pick after just two years. Him blossoming into a star is about the only thing this franchise has to look forward to to get us out of this hellhole.

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:

FAH1223 wrote:John is still very young. I am not ready to trade him until we know what we have this year with him. If he hasn't shown improvement, then I think we can move towards trying to find value for him in the summer.
But for now, it'd be foolish to give up on him this soon. Draft day 2010 wasn't that long ago.

What???

explore his value around the league and talk to other GMs

I'm hoping a new, COMPETENT GM, will be honest and evaluate the roster.