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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:26 pm
by nate33
Nivek wrote:One of the things I point out over at the blog -- during Wall's 41 minutes (all of them in the past two games), the Wizards produced an offensive rating of 98. During those two games, the Wizards offensive rating overall was 113.
This is NOT knocking Wall, but pointing out the unsupported assertions about what Wall's return has meant to the team. Wall's been along for the ride the past two games, which is perfectly fine considering that he's returning to the lineup after such a long absence and that he's not completely in shape yet.
Giving Wall credit for something he hasn't actually done serves to take credit from the guys who are actually getting the job done -- like Price and Webster.
GhostsOfGil wrote:Small sample size but after 2 games, 82games.com has Wall at +14 in on/off diff. His counterpart is averaging a PER of 7.4 per 48 minutes and he's shooting .385 eFG% on jumpers; about 7% better than last season.
His per 36 numbers are ridiculous; about 23 ppg and 9 assists. I'm not sure we could have asked for a better start from a player who missed 33 games.
Can both of these be true?
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:27 pm
by GhostsOfGil
nate33 wrote:Nivek wrote:One of the things I point out over at the blog -- during Wall's 41 minutes (all of them in the past two games), the Wizards produced an offensive rating of 98. During those two games, the Wizards offensive rating overall was 113.
This is NOT knocking Wall, but pointing out the unsupported assertions about what Wall's return has meant to the team. Wall's been along for the ride the past two games, which is perfectly fine considering that he's returning to the lineup after such a long absence and that he's not completely in shape yet.
Giving Wall credit for something he hasn't actually done serves to take credit from the guys who are actually getting the job done -- like Price and Webster.
GhostsOfGil wrote:Small sample size but after 2 games, 82games.com has Wall at +14 in on/off diff. His counterpart is averaging a PER of 7.4 per 48 minutes and he's shooting .385 eFG% on jumpers; about 7% better than last season.
His per 36 numbers are ridiculous; about 23 ppg and 9 assists. I'm not sure we could have asked for a better start from a player who missed 33 games.
Can both of these be true?
Based off the eye test I'd say Kevs data seems to show Walls impact more accurately.. but heres where I pulled that data from:
(updated yesterday and includes both games)
http://www.82games.com/1213/1213WAS.HTMEdit on 2nd glance are you sure those numbers are correct kev? Wall is averaging an oRTG of 107.
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:34 pm
by nate33
On the John Wall page, it reads:
Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.: +0.4
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.: -14.1
Net Points per 100 Possessions.: +14.5
So Wall is a net zero on offense, but makes a ginormous impact defensively.
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:24 pm
by Nivek
Nate: Am I gonna have to fight you about how you describe on/off stats?
The on/off stats don't say Wall is having a huge impact on defense. The stats say the TEAM defense has been better with Wall on the floor. They don't say that Wall is responsible for that change.
Looking for causality is what led to my defensive tracking project lo those many years ago.
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:37 pm
by AFM
^^True. But he has looked beastly on defense in the last 2 games. I don't know what's gotten into him. I think he's angry at his injury and career trajectory. This was supposed to be a big year for him and I think it's led to increased motivation. All pure conjecture.
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:41 pm
by nate33
Nivek wrote:Nate: Am I gonna have to fight you about how you describe on/off stats?
The on/off stats don't say Wall is having a huge impact on defense. The stats say the TEAM defense has been better with Wall on the floor. They don't say that Wall is responsible for that change.
Looking for causality is what led to my defensive tracking project lo those many years ago.
Of course, you are correct. I was trying to be brief and ended up imprecise.
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:48 pm
by fishercob
Nivek wrote:Nate: Am I gonna have to fight you about how you describe on/off stats?
The on/off stats don't say Wall is having a huge impact on defense. The stats say the TEAM defense has been better with Wall on the floor. They don't say that Wall is responsible for that change.
Looking for causality is what led to my defensive tracking project lo those many years ago.
Well, we know from Ted's Take that when AJ Price was on the floor the Pacers were the best defensive team of all time. Since he's Wall's backup, I'm pretty sure that Wall is the best defender since Bill Russell. Because, ya know.... Ted's Take! With all the empathy and optionality and stuff!
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:54 am
by Upper Decker
Vesely is so dreadfully awful on offense it literally kills the half court offense. Ariza's not much better, but Vesely is such a liability you can't play him more than a few minutes at a time without totally swinging the game.
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:06 pm
by Induveca
Nivek wrote:Unless we're going to credit Wall for guys performing better when he's in uniform but not on the floor.
The team is playing with far more energy/speed/decisiveness since Wall's return.
I wouldn't discount practice time with Wall. Employees always step their game up when a dynamic middle manager is injected into a stalled project.
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:54 pm
by dobrojim
nate33 wrote:Nivek wrote:Nate: Am I gonna have to fight you about how you describe on/off stats?
The on/off stats don't say Wall is having a huge impact on defense. The stats say the TEAM defense has been better with Wall on the floor. They don't say that Wall is responsible for that change.
Looking for causality is what led to my defensive tracking project lo those many years ago.
Of course, you are correct. I was trying to be brief and ended up imprecise.
how could you?
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Feb 6, 2013 4:56 am
by Knighthonor
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INIXanSQy0Y[/youtube]
What The ****! ? !
I got questions and want some answers on this...
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Feb 6, 2013 5:37 am
by dangermouse
If your question is "why isnt he throwing it down on the NBA like that?"
he answer is: NBA players are much much bigger and much much more athletic and much much better than Euroleague guys.
I still think he needs to play with the energy and heart that he played with overseas. He doesnt seem to be bringing it quite as much here.
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Feb 6, 2013 11:20 am
by closg00
Knighthonor wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INIXanSQy0Y[/youtube]
What The ****! ? !
I got questions and want some answers on this...
Yeah, we all want some answers. How can a GM and scouting department that were unanimous in selecting JV, still have jobs?
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Feb 6, 2013 1:30 pm
by Nivek
It's a highlight reel. A similar video could be put together for his NBA career. Players usually look really impressive when all you see is their best plays.
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Feb 6, 2013 3:05 pm
by tontoz
Nivek wrote:It's a highlight reel. A similar video could be put together for his NBA career. Players usually look really impressive when all you see is their best plays.
Before Yi was drafted i remember people making a big deal of his youtube clips. There were people on a Hawks board that were all for drafting him instead of Horford.
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Feb 6, 2013 5:28 pm
by Zonkerbl
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Feb 6, 2013 5:29 pm
by Kanyewest
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Feb 6, 2013 5:34 pm
by Zonkerbl
Ok, enough of that crap. Now for the only highlight reel you will ever see that includes a defensive rebound:
Kevin Love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-SMaqwCcCU
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Feb 6, 2013 6:13 pm
by GhostsOfGil
Damn I tried to find a Michael Ruffin highlight reel but couldn't find anything.
Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Posted: Wed Feb 6, 2013 6:15 pm
by montestewart
GhostsOfGil wrote:Damn I tried to find a Michael Ruffin highlight reel but couldn't find anything.
I found it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqgYNPANWa0