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I didn't put this in the Wall thread because it's got a couple of angles. SVG won't be the next coach after Randy. That much is certain.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... ber_Player

Van Gundy: Wall Not Franchise Caliber Player

Stan Van Gundy was asked if the Washington Wizards have the talent in place to improve.

“You know, I don’t see it, to be honest,” Van Gundy said. “I’d love to tell you you’re two years away; I really don’t [see it]. That roster doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I know they’ll be better when John Wall comes back. He’s certainly got talent, but I don’t know that even John Wall is a great player to build your franchise around. I don’t know WHO you’re building around, so it’s tough to even think about what the construction of your team is. That’s just a bad basketball team.”

Van Gundy said the Wizards’ prospects for improvement aren’t good.

“I don’t know if it’s a trade, a free-agent thing, but I do know this: you build a team around certain people, and then you find complementary parts," he said. "There’s been no one to even build around there. There’s certainly nobody on that roster now you can build around.

“I think maybe they thought it was gonna be John Wall – maybe they still think it is. I think there’s a lot of people in the league – I’d certainly be one that would share this opinion – I don’t think John Wall’s good enough to be the guy that you build around. I think he’s got great speed and quickness, but point guard is a decision-making position. That’s what makes you great as a point guard, is your decision-making. I haven’t seen any indication that John Wall is a great decision-maker.”

In another thread I concluded Wall is better than other young PGs but said I would trade him moving forward for the right deal. How do others feel about SVGs remarks? (I concur FWIW.)

Too early to tell. We have done a terrible job as far as building an environment for him to grow in.

We'll see how he looks after returning from injury.

I don't disagree with SVG, at this point the jury is out on Wall. Obviously I would be more comfortable giving a definite yes/no answer if he had played at all this season, but I would have to lean toward an agreement. With what we've seen so far, the lack of jumper really does him in, and his inability to use his insane speed more effectively as a basketball player didn't help his image either when he was playing.

I don't know that I would start by criticizing his decision making although
I won't argue it could be better. But he was (and is) young still.
For a guy to come in to a team of bricklayers like he has and avg 8.5 assists
for 2 years leads me to another place to begin my criticisms of Wall.

I think the place you start any criticisms of Wall is with his shooting.
If he ever gets an average jumper and, god forbid, 3 pt shot, he's going
to be a huge star.

re decision making, sure he turns it over more than you'd like.
I'm willing for the time being to write that off as youthful exuberance
and that he will learn in time and if and when he ever gets quality teammates.

Wall can still be a key guy to build around. Even if he's not the main guy i would still keep him.

I think he has the chance to be the main guy.

I think for the right package...Wall is trade-able...but I'd like to see what we get with a semi competent team with him.

"Wall and Ariza return to practice, Price takes part in non-contact drills. Ariza closest to return, could be in next few days" wizards twitter

we might see him back...soonish

He was 16-8 with bad pieces around him (mind you on..meh efficiency). While we still have bad pieces..I think some of the pieces we have would function better with him around. Will we somehow pull 35 wins out of our asses? Probably not...but if manage to play .500 ball with Wall back I think we ought to hold onto him...Trade some of our BS..and bring in a GM that knows how to **** draft players worth a ****. He's got two dysfunctional seasons under his belt by no fault of his own. If anyone isn't franchise caliber, its the FO.

^Okafor is playing himself into a tradeable comodity

I dont want to trade Wall!

truwizfan4evr wrote:I dont want to trade Wall!

it would take a really good deal for me to be ok with trading Wall. Trading him now would be selling REALLY short.

If he somehow managed to get that mid range game down right...it'll all be moot.

If Wall develops a competent jump shot, he definitely becomes a tremendously valuable piece. If he doesn't, tbh, he'll be an ok, albeit super-flashy player. He could become close to unguardable if he could knock down shots, but as it is, he is eminently guardable in slower paced games (aka, games against quality teams that are focused and motivated), and his lack of a jump shot severely hampers the teams offensive efficiency in half-court sets.

I was thinking about this the other day when debating a guy on the Trade Board. My theory is that Wall is having a slow start to his NBA career (relative to other PG's like Irving and Rose) because of his suspect jumpshot, not because of any fundamental lack of b-ball IQ and/or decision-making.

The high pick-and-roll is the cornerstone of most PG-centric offenses because it forces the defense to switch and help. Wall's problem is that, without a jumper, it's really easy to guard him on the high pick-and-roll. The opposing defender simply goes under the screen and dares Wall to take the 18-footer. Guys like Kyrie Irving, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, etc are always faced with an off-balance, scrambling defense and it is therefore easier to finish in the lane or pass to an open player. Wall doesn't get that opportunity and he won't get it until he's a threat to hit the jumper.

If you look at the development of other hyper-athletic, poor-shooting, pass-first PG's like Jason Kidd, Rajon Rondo, and Russell Westbrook, you will see a similar trend. They don't look that great as first. It took 3 or 4 years for them to become stars. Here are the pace-adjusted per-36 numbers for the aforementioned players:









You will note that all of them were relatively inefficient in their first 2 seasons. Westbrook made his Leap in his 3rd year. Rondo made a minor leap in Year 3 and progressively got better after that. Kidd didn't get really good until his 5th. If Wall has improved his jumper, he may very well make a big leap this year. But given the lockout last year and his injury this year, it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't make The Leap until next season. I think the trend is strong enough that I wouldn't consider giving up on him at this point. I really think the problem is his jumper, not his decision-making.

LOL. I guess I just spent the last 20 minutes composing an unnecessarily long post merely to restate what everyone already said.

nate33 wrote:LOL. I guess I just spent the last 20 minutes composing an unnecessarily long post merely to restate what everyone already said.

sometimes when I see someone workout the stats it gives me peace of mind that I might not be thinking too crazily with regards to my misplaced faith in this team.

I think a "under control" Westbrook might be Wall's best case scenario...I would deem that to be a franchise caliber player. He can get that pull up jumper around the FT line whenever he wants, hopefully before the injury he's practiced enough jumpshooting to show significant improvement. I think we all will have to deal with an adjustment period for when he does come back...probably need a couple weeks to get back in rhythm and figure out some of the new faces tendencies.

nate33 wrote:I was thinking about this the other day when debating a guy on the Trade Board. My theory is that Wall is having a slow start to his NBA career (relative to other PG's like Irving and Rose) because of his suspect jumpshot, not because of any fundamental lack of b-ball IQ and/or decision-making.

That's it. His decision making isn't a problem at all. His jumper is just horrible.

nate, thanks for posting those stats. I like to infer based on numbers.

Looking at Rondo and Westbrook, I wonder if their respective shooting dips this season show effects of missing the shooting of departed players, Ray Allen and James Harden, respectively? Martin probably doesn't assist Westbrook much.

Wall's outliers are that in year two he turned it over more while assisting less. Also, he's the one guard who can and does get blocks. Wall's shooting didn't improve in year two, but his shooting was still in the same accuracy level of Westbrook's in his second season. The players on the list all seemed to blow up in year three. Wall couldn't have been injured at a worse time.

I think SVG's on point. I think the Wizards' best moves would be to trade for as many picks as they can.

Van Gundy is correct on Wall, if you add the word "yet". Wall isn't a guy to build around YET. Nate's numbers are on point.

One quibble with nate's commentary: lack of a jumper IS a significant reason why the high screen/roll wasn't as effective with Wall as it with other PGs; another big reason was Wall doing a poor job of using screens. A better jumper and better use of screens would improve his efficiency on those plays.

Something else to keep in mind: Grunfeld and Jeff Van Gundy had trouble getting along in New York. There was a power struggle between the two, and Grunfeld lost. But, I wouldn't be surprised if there were still bad feelings between the Van Gundys and Grunfeld. Stan in particular seems to know how to carry a grudge.

All that said, his basic point -- that the Wizards are a bad basketball team that's largely bereft of talent -- is accurate.

Wall Says SVG Is A Punk

I don't think he is a franchise player either but I think he's a good piece to building a team.

Yeah, I thought the decision-making crack was a little ... uninformed. From watching him play that wasn't my impression at all. He makes good passes -- his teammates can't make shots. He can't just *decide* not to pass to an open guy whose job it is to shoot jumpers. If that guy can't make the shot, that's EG's fault, not Wall's.