Beal, Wall, Jan,Hayes, Kwame Order from best -2-worst

[Knighthonor]

For some past top 10 first round draft picks from the past few seasons.
In what order would you put them going from Best to Worst talent wise?

Just for fun of the discussion, explain your order.

[dangermouse]

Thats probably about right.

Beal
Wall
HUGE GAP
Jan
Hayes
GRAND CANYON
Kwame

[Knighthonor]

Thats probably about right.

no mine wasnt in any order.

But If I had to do a order it would be

1)Beal
2)Wall
3)Hayes
4)Kwame
5)Jan

[Knighthonor]

Beal
Wall
HUGE GAP
Jan
Hayes
GRAND CANYON
Kwame

Jan > Kwame?
?


?

again I ask,,, "?"

[GhostsOfGil]

First round picks only? Talent is subjective but my order of the best first round picks are:

Oleksiy Pecherov










Beal
Wall
Mcgee
Nick Young
Kwame
Kevin Seraphin
Jared Jeffries
Singleton
Jaun Dixon
Jan Vesely
Jarvis Hayes

TBH, bottom 3 are all interchangeable IMO.
Left off Devin Harris and Rubio for obvious reasons... wow what terrible draft history.

[Knighthonor]

Jaun Dixon
Jan Vesely
Jarvis Hayes

TBH, bottom 3 are all interchangeable IMO.
Left off Devin Harris and Rubio for obvious reasons... wow what terrible draft history.

what?
Dixon was way more skilled than Jan, and Hayes?
Hope you not confusing the twin here are you?

[Wizards2Lottery]

Vesely may go down as one of the worst top 10 picks ever. Kwame at least made something out of his career.

Pretty sure Ves will be out of the NBA once his rookie contract is up. He is by far the worst.

[B-easy]

wait, so beal is better than wall already?

Nah wall still the best. But Beal might take over very soon.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

(This is a long post defending Jan Vesely. His 43rd thru 57th last season games last season are all you need to look at. The rest explains …)


Vesely and Seraphin started the last 15 games last season. The Wizards were 8-2 over the last 10.

At the time of the Okariza deal, I warned that young players' careers would be sabotaged. Adding two veterans plus having Booker back from injury all but guaranteed very few minutes for Vesely and Singleton. Throw Webster and Earl Barron to the mix this season and the young guys got lost in the shuffle. I predicted that would be the case, but nothing changed who those guys are.

Their circumstances and the public perception of their play in limited minus, minus John Wall, plus many guys better or more experienced taking their jobs is what happened.

Vesey is NOT a bust. I remember the 8.5 point, 7 rebounds in just 28 minutes. He did that over these 15 games and he's quite capable if the Wizards play him. (And if his mind gets freed up to where he plays the same as he did those games. Note, the Wizards had a stretch four (James Singleton) and Nene playing like a beast then, not Okafor. Also, Singleton wasn't the PF in front of Jan then, either. That happened because of Ariza and Webster and Chris being better as a PF. ALL THESE THINGS BUMPED VESELY)

Here's a link to Jan's last 15 games last season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... :pgl_basic

Vesely's problems are psychological/discouragement/lost confidence/cultural shock related. Fans downing the guy don't help. Him being on the Wizards, who would undermine his career potentially are MOSTLY what is wrong.

The SMARTEST THING ANYBODY COULD DO would be to TELL JAN VESELY HE CAN DO LIKE BEAL AND RAISE HIS GAME IN TIME. Beal stunk it up early but now he's confident. Hard work and faith, plus talent, plus Bradley's great intelligence and his total game have come together.

Vesely has a very high basketball IQ and he can be an elite finisher.

Most fans don't know that much. They know how to down a guy.

nate, Fab Oberto put up Jan-like numbers under Flip Saunders.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2007/

Note how badly he flopped with Flip only three years after his prime with SA. (See his WS/48 fall off a cliff!)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... tfa01.html

LISTEN, I may offend here but I DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. Years go by and people are finally saying Wall isn't great …

Well, JAN VESELY IS ACTUALLY A PRETTY GOOD BASKETBALL PLAYER IF HE IS USED CORRECTLY. Right now, he's down on the depth chart and he is demoralized.

An old saying goes, "Free your mind and the rest will follow". I like to say free your mind and your ass will follow.

Vesely needs to be put in successful situations and praised. He proved himself in the past and the Wizards have 27 or so games to work him back in the rotation. He needs to keep his head up and decide he's willing to be ready.

The problem started with the Wizard coaching when they told him to change. Get bigger. Bang in the post. Gain some weight. Vesely next had an injury. After that guys he can't outplay yet and Ted/EG changed the whole team with veterans who can win now. This season on top of all that, Jan sucked when Wall was out. That is won feeds Jan alley oops and whose speed game suits Jan. In limited minutes this season, with the losing record and his worse play, fans turned on Vesely. I believe the young guy lost his confidence. He reads blogs, probably. He has to be getting all the negative feedback, particularly about his FT shooting and that was ALWAYS BAD. Jan is athletic but now a shooter!

There is NO WAY he should have been the 6th pick but we all know that and so does he. The problem is people are putting dirt on his grave and Jan Vesely isn't dead yet as a Wizard.

Those last 15 games the guy STARTED and WON 8 of the LAST 10. This season has been a NIGHTMARE for his career. AND NOW HE HAS A LOT OF MONEY. (How does he spend his time and his money? How much focus is on his game with such limited minutes and his apparent lack of focus/maturity/confidence?) Last year he had smoking hot GF but I don't know what else. Could he be missing something/someone this season? (Or, has he got too many babes, I dunno). What I can tell is Vesely lacks confidence. (Not too many white in the NBA and none any more athletic+long as he IMO). That is why his shot and game are jacked up.

Sorry for the rant but I'm sure Vesely is a pretty good basketball player. I do not think so. I am sure of it.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

(This is a long post defending Jan Vesely. His 43rd thru 57th last season games last season are all you need to look at. The rest explains …)


Vesely and Seraphin started the last 15 games last season. The Wizards were 8-2 over the last 10.

At the time of the Okariza deal, I warned that young players' careers would be sabotaged. Adding two veterans plus having Booker back from injury all but guaranteed very few minutes for Vesely and Singleton. Throw Webster and Earl Barron to the mix this season and the young guys got lost in the shuffle. I predicted that would be the case, but nothing changed who those guys are.

Their circumstances and the public perception of their play in limited minus, minus John Wall, plus many guys better or more experienced taking their jobs is what happened.

Vesey is NOT a bust. I remember the 8.5 point, 7 rebounds in just 28 minutes. He did that over these 15 games and he's quite capable if the Wizards play him. (And if his mind gets freed up to where he plays the same as he did those games. Note, the Wizards had a stretch four (James Singleton) and Nene playing like a beast then, not Okafor. Also, Singleton wasn't the PF in front of Jan then, either. That happened because of Ariza and Webster and Chris being better as a PF. ALL THESE THINGS BUMPED VESELY)

Here's a link to Jan's last 15 games last season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... :pgl_basic

Vesely's problems are psychological/discouragement/lost confidence/cultural shock related. Fans downing the guy don't help. Him being on the Wizards, who would undermine his career potentially are MOSTLY what is wrong.

The SMARTEST THING ANYBODY COULD DO would be to TELL JAN VESELY HE CAN DO LIKE BEAL AND RAISE HIS GAME IN TIME. Beal stunk it up early but now he's confident. Hard work and faith, plus talent, plus Bradley's great intelligence and his total game have come together.

Vesely has a very high basketball IQ and he can be an elite finisher.

Most fans don't know that much. They know how to down a guy.

nate, Fab Oberto put up Jan-like numbers under Flip Saunders.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2007/

Note how badly he flopped with Flip only three years after his prime with SA. (See his WS/48 fall off a cliff!)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... tfa01.html

LISTEN, I may offend here but I DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. Years go by and people are finally saying Wall isn't great …

Well, JAN VESELY IS ACTUALLY A PRETTY GOOD BASKETBALL PLAYER IF HE IS USED CORRECTLY. Right now, he's down on the depth chart and he is demoralized.

An old saying goes, "Free your mind and the rest will follow". I like to say free your mind and your ass will follow.

Vesely needs to be put in successful situations and praised. He proved himself in the past and the Wizards have 27 or so games to work him back in the rotation. He needs to keep his head up and decide he's willing to be ready.

The problem started with the Wizard coaching when they told him to change. Get bigger. Bang in the post. Gain some weight. Vesely next had an injury. After that guys he can't outplay yet and Ted/EG changed the whole team with veterans who can win now. This season on top of all that, Jan sucked when Wall was out. That is won feeds Jan alley oops and whose speed game suits Jan. In limited minutes this season, with the losing record and his worse play, fans turned on Vesely. I believe the young guy lost his confidence. He reads blogs, probably. He has to be getting all the negative feedback, particularly about his FT shooting and that was ALWAYS BAD. Jan is athletic but now a shooter!

There is NO WAY he should have been the 6th pick but we all know that and so does he. The problem is people are putting dirt on his grave and Jan Vesely isn't dead yet as a Wizard.

Those last 15 games the guy STARTED and WON 8 of the LAST 10. This season has been a NIGHTMARE for his career. AND NOW HE HAS A LOT OF MONEY. (How does he spend his time and his money? How much focus is on his game with such limited minutes and his apparent lack of focus/maturity/confidence?) Last year he had smoking hot GF but I don't know what else. Could he be missing something/someone this season? (Or, has he got too many babes, I dunno). What I can tell is Vesely lacks confidence. (Not too many white in the NBA and none any more athletic+long as he IMO). That is why his shot and game are jacked up.

Sorry for the rant but I'm sure Vesely is a pretty good basketball player. I do not think so. I am sure of it.

I bet you'll be quoting those last 6 games from LAST season when Vesely still sucks next season. Vesely wasn't anywhere near the reason we won those games. he managed to play like a semi-average NBA player, but James Singleton and Nene were the reason for that successful run. Vesely is NOT and NBA player!

[dangermouse]

wait, so beal is better than wall already?

Nah wall still the best. But Beal might take over very soon.

I think we are ranking their skill level.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

(This is a long post defending Jan Vesely. His 43rd thru 57th last season games last season are all you need to look at. The rest explains …)


Vesely and Seraphin started the last 15 games last season. The Wizards were 8-2 over the last 10.

At the time of the Okariza deal, I warned that young players' careers would be sabotaged. Adding two veterans plus having Booker back from injury all but guaranteed very few minutes for Vesely and Singleton. Throw Webster and Earl Barron to the mix this season and the young guys got lost in the shuffle. I predicted that would be the case, but nothing changed who those guys are.

Their circumstances and the public perception of their play in limited minus, minus John Wall, plus many guys better or more experienced taking their jobs is what happened.

Vesey is NOT a bust. I remember the 8.5 point, 7 rebounds in just 28 minutes. He did that over these 15 games and he's quite capable if the Wizards play him. (And if his mind gets freed up to where he plays the same as he did those games. Note, the Wizards had a stretch four (James Singleton) and Nene playing like a beast then, not Okafor. Also, Singleton wasn't the PF in front of Jan then, either. That happened because of Ariza and Webster and Chris being better as a PF. ALL THESE THINGS BUMPED VESELY)

Here's a link to Jan's last 15 games last season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... :pgl_basic

Vesely's problems are psychological/discouragement/lost confidence/cultural shock related. Fans downing the guy don't help. Him being on the Wizards, who would undermine his career potentially are MOSTLY what is wrong.

The SMARTEST THING ANYBODY COULD DO would be to TELL JAN VESELY HE CAN DO LIKE BEAL AND RAISE HIS GAME IN TIME. Beal stunk it up early but now he's confident. Hard work and faith, plus talent, plus Bradley's great intelligence and his total game have come together.

Vesely has a very high basketball IQ and he can be an elite finisher.

Most fans don't know that much. They know how to down a guy.

nate, Fab Oberto put up Jan-like numbers under Flip Saunders.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2007/

Note how badly he flopped with Flip only three years after his prime with SA. (See his WS/48 fall off a cliff!)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... tfa01.html

LISTEN, I may offend here but I DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. Years go by and people are finally saying Wall isn't great …

Well, JAN VESELY IS ACTUALLY A PRETTY GOOD BASKETBALL PLAYER IF HE IS USED CORRECTLY. Right now, he's down on the depth chart and he is demoralized.

An old saying goes, "Free your mind and the rest will follow". I like to say free your mind and your ass will follow.

Vesely needs to be put in successful situations and praised. He proved himself in the past and the Wizards have 27 or so games to work him back in the rotation. He needs to keep his head up and decide he's willing to be ready.

The problem started with the Wizard coaching when they told him to change. Get bigger. Bang in the post. Gain some weight. Vesely next had an injury. After that guys he can't outplay yet and Ted/EG changed the whole team with veterans who can win now. This season on top of all that, Jan sucked when Wall was out. That is won feeds Jan alley oops and whose speed game suits Jan. In limited minutes this season, with the losing record and his worse play, fans turned on Vesely. I believe the young guy lost his confidence. He reads blogs, probably. He has to be getting all the negative feedback, particularly about his FT shooting and that was ALWAYS BAD. Jan is athletic but now a shooter!

There is NO WAY he should have been the 6th pick but we all know that and so does he. The problem is people are putting dirt on his grave and Jan Vesely isn't dead yet as a Wizard.

Those last 15 games the guy STARTED and WON 8 of the LAST 10. This season has been a NIGHTMARE for his career. AND NOW HE HAS A LOT OF MONEY. (How does he spend his time and his money? How much focus is on his game with such limited minutes and his apparent lack of focus/maturity/confidence?) Last year he had smoking hot GF but I don't know what else. Could he be missing something/someone this season? (Or, has he got too many babes, I dunno). What I can tell is Vesely lacks confidence. (Not too many white in the NBA and none any more athletic+long as he IMO). That is why his shot and game are jacked up.

Sorry for the rant but I'm sure Vesely is a pretty good basketball player. I do not think so. I am sure of it.

I bet you'll be quoting those last 6 games from LAST season when Vesely still sucks next season. Vesely wasn't anywhere near the reason we won those games. he managed to play like a semi-average NBA player, but James Singleton and Nene were the reason for that successful run. Vesely is NOT and NBA player!

He is 7 feet and can finish and has a high basketball IQ. I know what he can do and the Wizards have undermined his career. I damn well is an NBA player but he probably will be in Europe in a couple seasons. Your short response to my long post says you have an opinion about 6 games but ignored stats over 15 with the guy starting and playing average NBA ball at 22 years old. He can play. He might not pan out but he can play.

Typical response of someone who probably wanted Wittman fired, too. Vesely is somebody if the Wizards were smart enough to use people like me or sports psychologists they could maximize his potential and unleash the guy's talent. Instead, they think like you, DANNY, and they get rid of people and waste assets.

Vesely is a guy who can do just a few things but he does those things well when the team around him is right. Wall can't shoot. Neither can Vesely. But Vesely HELPS THE TEAM when he is on the court.

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS14.HTM

1100 minutes played and the team +1.9 with Vesely on the court vs off last season (above)

http://www.82games.com/1213/12WAS14.HTM

417 minutes played and the team +1.0 with Vesely on the court vs off this season.

Vesely is a role player who can be a very good guy to have on the court if there are shooters with him and Wall passing to him. He definitely is an NBA player and those games show it. He's had good games THIS SEASON, too.

I explained EVERYTHING and you still don't believe. Fine. ...

[GhostsOfGil]

wait, so beal is better than wall already?

Nah wall still the best. But Beal might take over very soon.

It's pretty close but right now, Beal is playing way better ball than Wall.

Jaun Dixon
Jan Vesely
Jarvis Hayes

TBH, bottom 3 are all interchangeable IMO.
Left off Devin Harris and Rubio for obvious reasons... wow what terrible draft history.

what?
Dixon was way more skilled than Jan, and Hayes?
Hope you not confusing the twin here are you?

Who said anything about skill? Out of those 3 players, Jaun produced the most.

[bgroban]

(This is a long post defending Jan Vesely. His 43rd thru 57th last season games last season are all you need to look at. The rest explains …)


Vesely and Seraphin started the last 15 games last season. The Wizards were 8-2 over the last 10.

At the time of the Okariza deal, I warned that young players' careers would be sabotaged. Adding two veterans plus having Booker back from injury all but guaranteed very few minutes for Vesely and Singleton. Throw Webster and Earl Barron to the mix this season and the young guys got lost in the shuffle. I predicted that would be the case, but nothing changed who those guys are.

Their circumstances and the public perception of their play in limited minus, minus John Wall, plus many guys better or more experienced taking their jobs is what happened.

Vesey is NOT a bust. I remember the 8.5 point, 7 rebounds in just 28 minutes. He did that over these 15 games and he's quite capable if the Wizards play him. (And if his mind gets freed up to where he plays the same as he did those games. Note, the Wizards had a stretch four (James Singleton) and Nene playing like a beast then, not Okafor. Also, Singleton wasn't the PF in front of Jan then, either. That happened because of Ariza and Webster and Chris being better as a PF. ALL THESE THINGS BUMPED VESELY)

Here's a link to Jan's last 15 games last season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... :pgl_basic

Vesely's problems are psychological/discouragement/lost confidence/cultural shock related. Fans downing the guy don't help. Him being on the Wizards, who would undermine his career potentially are MOSTLY what is wrong.

The SMARTEST THING ANYBODY COULD DO would be to TELL JAN VESELY HE CAN DO LIKE BEAL AND RAISE HIS GAME IN TIME. Beal stunk it up early but now he's confident. Hard work and faith, plus talent, plus Bradley's great intelligence and his total game have come together.

Vesely has a very high basketball IQ and he can be an elite finisher.

Most fans don't know that much. They know how to down a guy.

nate, Fab Oberto put up Jan-like numbers under Flip Saunders.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2007/

Note how badly he flopped with Flip only three years after his prime with SA. (See his WS/48 fall off a cliff!)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... tfa01.html

LISTEN, I may offend here but I DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. Years go by and people are finally saying Wall isn't great …

Well, JAN VESELY IS ACTUALLY A PRETTY GOOD BASKETBALL PLAYER IF HE IS USED CORRECTLY. Right now, he's down on the depth chart and he is demoralized.

An old saying goes, "Free your mind and the rest will follow". I like to say free your mind and your ass will follow.

Vesely needs to be put in successful situations and praised. He proved himself in the past and the Wizards have 27 or so games to work him back in the rotation. He needs to keep his head up and decide he's willing to be ready.

The problem started with the Wizard coaching when they told him to change. Get bigger. Bang in the post. Gain some weight. Vesely next had an injury. After that guys he can't outplay yet and Ted/EG changed the whole team with veterans who can win now. This season on top of all that, Jan sucked when Wall was out. That is won feeds Jan alley oops and whose speed game suits Jan. In limited minutes this season, with the losing record and his worse play, fans turned on Vesely. I believe the young guy lost his confidence. He reads blogs, probably. He has to be getting all the negative feedback, particularly about his FT shooting and that was ALWAYS BAD. Jan is athletic but now a shooter!

There is NO WAY he should have been the 6th pick but we all know that and so does he. The problem is people are putting dirt on his grave and Jan Vesely isn't dead yet as a Wizard.

Those last 15 games the guy STARTED and WON 8 of the LAST 10. This season has been a NIGHTMARE for his career. AND NOW HE HAS A LOT OF MONEY. (How does he spend his time and his money? How much focus is on his game with such limited minutes and his apparent lack of focus/maturity/confidence?) Last year he had smoking hot GF but I don't know what else. Could he be missing something/someone this season? (Or, has he got too many babes, I dunno). What I can tell is Vesely lacks confidence. (Not too many white in the NBA and none any more athletic+long as he IMO). That is why his shot and game are jacked up.

Sorry for the rant but I'm sure Vesely is a pretty good basketball player. I do not think so. I am sure of it.

CCJ - I agree with you 100%. We are certainly in the minority on this. I have said it countless times - put Jan on the Spurs and watch him blossom. Would not surprise me at all to see them sign him once his rookie contract his up, either. The kid has smarts and skills. Just needs the right system to learn in.

[TheKingOfVa360]

CCJ great post, I agree with everything you said. Ves is just having a confidence issue. Also the coaching staff hasn't helped him find his niche' on this team.

[GhostsOfGil]

Confidence is definitely an issue but TBH the Wizards just don't need a guy with his skill set. Were a team that is built on defense that needs some offense to be win. Pretty much the exact opposite of what he provides.

[Higga]

Beal
Wall



Hayes










Kwamay
















Vesley

[cwb3]

Did wizdynasty hack CCJ's account?

[dobrojim]

I don't think the Wizards undermined Vesely, I think circumstances have.

He does have athleticism and BBIQ. But lets be real, he has a limited skill set.
For the time being, he needs to be protected from being exposed for those
limitations and only put out there in limited situations. This is a justifiable
indictment of Ves as a 6th overall pick. All that said, there is time for this
situation to develop more favorably if the Wiz org have patience. At some point
in time, they will need to cut him loose if he fails to develop NBA skills. But they
shouldn't rush that decision.

[dobrojim]

I think a more appropriate evaluation or ordering would
be based on the value they got vs what they chose to pass on.
You have to consider context when judging.

Wall and Beal were the right picks.
Vesely was not.
In hindsight Kwame was not. Shoulda been Chandler, Pao or even Battier.
McGee was a decent pick for where he was taken as was Nick. That said
I don't remember all the details of players they passed on in those drafts.
Jeffries...IDK. Probably better choices out there.
Pech - bletch
Hayes...I guessing there were other better choices.

I think it's generally true that the higher you pick, the better your
chances are of being 'right'. But we and others have made some huge
mistakes ie Thabeet, Morrison and arguably Oden (injury risk) near the top of the
draft as well. Those are the ones people tend to remember.

Good teams like SAS tend to find great value wherever they pick.