The Amazingly Sucky John Wall Thread

[FAH1223]

Sorry. Had to make it. 3-9 with 7 turnovers. Had a similar game last week vs. Toronto.

Fire away folks.

For the record, I like Wall and root for him every night and was also in disbelief when we won the 2010 lottery. I hope he improves... but he has had some amazingly sucky nights lately. Namely with turnovers and poor shooting percentages.

[JonathanJoseph]

For some perspective, I'll point out that I first called for trading Wall on 1/16/12. I said that I'd trade Wall for a lottery pick.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=29968491#p29968491

That prompted a bunch of posters suggesting I was a troll or full of conspiracy theories.

Well, if we had traded Wall a year ago for a lottery pick we might have a Dame Lillard/Bradley Beal backcourt to watch right now, which very well might mean the Wizards would be headed to the playoffs this season.

Just saying...

[FAH1223]

Some of the comments tonight are kind of telling on Wall.

Wittman made a statement of his own, suggesting that several of his players did not accept coaching throughout the game.

"Tonight, we got what we deserved. We didn't deserve to win that game," Wittman said.

"We were more caught up in ourselves as individuals than the team," he added later. "That's the bottom line. We got guys that haven't been in the rotation complaining. The older guys try to help them; they won't listen. That just tells me, 'I'm just worried about myself. I'm not worried about winning this game.'"

Wittman was talking about the team generally. He was later asked about Wall specifically and quickly pivoted again to talking about the team.

"Whether it's a game, a stretch, two weeks, 10 days, you've got to fight through it. You can't succumb to it. You can't feel sorry for yourself. Not only John. We feel sorry for ourselves sometimes," he said.

"It wasn't about the team tonight," Wittman concluded before walking out. "That's what's disappointing."

I guess it's up to you to read into whether he was talking about Wall. Bradley Beal and Martell Webster, among others, agreed with their head coach about his general critique.

"He's right. We just have to be on the same page. We just have to realize it's not about me, me me, it's about we. We didn't show that tonight," Beal said. "Our body language tells it all. We just have to be men about it and accept the fact that someone else is playing good. Every night is not going to be your night, but there's other ways you can impact the game. We just got to stick with it."

"We got caught up in the emotions," Webster said. "Me, myself, I kind of got caught up in the game a little bit. As a veteran on this team, I have to do a better job of making sure, as a team and a unit, that we manage those and don't let them get the best of us. I was a victim of it."


Several players were asked about Wall himself. Here were their answers:

Beal: "When he's in a zone, he's hard to get to sometimes. But that's just the type of player he is. I'm kind of like that. I get frustrated and upset. You probably won't hear from me about it, but it's a learning process for him. It's a learning process for me and everyone else. Sometimes, the older guys don't have good games and we tell them to stick with it. They'll either listen or not. It's up to the player. You can tell him, but you can't make him, so to speak."

A.J. Price: "I'm not sure what it is right now. I don't think he's playing that type of bad, as bad as he thinks he's playing, but he's just got to stay with it. It's up to us as teammates to bring him with us, keep him up and stay confident."

Webster: "As a young player -- and I went through it too -- you've got to live in the moment. Once that moment's over, you've got to move on. As a young team, you shouldn't hold grudges. That's just every player's mentality. There's a lot of pride in this game, especially with the pressures of a point guard and a high-level point guard like John. Being young and having that pressure, it can get to you sometimes. Like I said, it's never going to be a perfect night. It's never going to be a perfect night. You're going to go through some bad stretches. It's how you manage those bad stretches and realizing that it's not about yourself, it's about the team, you can usually get over the hump. He's just got to keep chipping away. We all do. We're all victims of it. It happens."

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2013/2/27 ... -john-wall

[SizzlinSimms]

To his defense he's thinking way to **** hard. He has to live up to the reputation of being a number one pick. Of course he's going to upset when he does make a shot, because he knows his expectations are far better. I still have faith in Wall, I don't think he'll be a good jump shooter but I think he'll figure out the game within the offense and become a amazing PG. Toast!

[Destino]

Unbealievably it looks like Bradly called him out fairly harshly today.

"He's right. We just have to be on the same page. We just have to realize it's not about me, me me, it's about we. We didn't show that tonight," Beal said. "Our body language tells it all. We just have to be men about it and accept the fact that someone else is playing good. Every night is not going to be your night, but there's other ways you can impact the game. We just got to stick with it."

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2013/2/27/4038354/pistons-vs-wizards-randy-wittman-john-wall

Body language? Accept that someone else is doing better? Find other ways to impact the game? With Crawford gone who else could he be talking about? That's not your typical "keep your head up" style comment about a team mate playing a bad game. Brad fo'Real Beal doesn't mess around.

[dlts20]

To me its 50/50. 50 percent Wall and 50 percent Witt. 1st off you just arent going to win games when your 2 best players are average at best and thats what Wall & Nene are on most nights. Everyone else is playing good enough for us to be going undefeated right now if they play like they are suppose to be playing.

Wall is like Dray. I really believe in there talent but there mental makeup makes you believe that they have no chance to be elite. Its like I seriously cant picture Wall giving playoff interviews or leading his team to the Finals even know my heart wants him to. I never even liked his hype in HS or thought he was special at Kentucky but I have bought into him as a pro. Maybe Im just a homer.

His J is horrible. It kills everything. His decision making is amatureish. However, I think all of that is made to look way worst because of this system. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Again, if you dont think the coach is the guy to lead you to a title then why waste time? Again, we may win some games but its only because of our talent. We may be a top defensive team but its also because we have alot of defensive minded players. It has nothing to do with coaching.

The team will only go as far as your stars will take it. Therefore it makes the most sense to get a coach to fit that. Again, Witt's system is basically the same as Flip's and its the complete opposite of Wall's strenghs. It is made for guys like Billups & Cassell. Its made to shoot jumpers and for the PG to stretch the D laterally so he can swing it back or take a J. Its not made for a guy like Wall. He needs the pick & roll to be going downhill and attacking. He and our team would look so much better. You pick the right coach and the same guy who looks like a bust will immediatly look like top 5 to me. The system isnt a fit.

Dont get me wrong, Wall has to take responsibility. System or not, he cant look that bad. I think he knows all the talk about him being a bust. He's hearing all what Faulk is saying, what SVG said, he's seeing Irving dominate, and even Beal look better than him. He's starting to quit because he's feeling like a bust and cant do anything about it. He's giving up. Someone has to snap his head back in it and tell him to finish strong. Next year though, get the right system in place

[Respect My Mind]

I knew Wall was trash when I saw that Youtube video of him playing that high school kid. It should not even had been competitive. Trust me an elite NBA PG even half assing, should obliterate a scrub like that. OBLITERATE.

[AFM]

I've never wanted a player in the NBA to succeed more than John Wall. For some reason I just identify with the kid. I want him to be good so badly. Not so the Wizards will be better, but because I want to see HIM do well. I can't explain why.
But he is terrible.

[tontoz]

For the month Wall whot 37.7% with 4.3 turnovers.

[FAH1223]

For the month Wall whot 37.7% with 4.3 turnovers.

after the game, Jose Calderon had words for Wall. IMO, I think Calderon looked like he got disrespected by Wall by not playing him well. I think Calderon thought his last two games v. John were way too easy

[nate33]

Some of the comments tonight are kind of telling on Wall.

Webster: "As a young player -- and I went through it too -- you've got to live in the moment. Once that moment's over, you've got to move on. As a young team, you shouldn't hold grudges. That's just every player's mentality. There's a lot of pride in this game, especially with the pressures of a point guard and a high-level point guard like John. Being young and having that pressure, it can get to you sometimes. Like I said, it's never going to be a perfect night. It's never going to be a perfect night. You're going to go through some bad stretches. It's how you manage those bad stretches and realizing that it's not about yourself, it's about the team, you can usually get over the hump. He's just got to keep chipping away. We all do. We're all victims of it. It happens."

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2013/2/27 ... -john-wall

I love Martell Webster.

[willbcocks]

I've never wanted a player in the NBA to succeed more than John Wall. For some reason I just identify with the kid. I want him to be good so badly. Not so the Wizards will be better, but because I want to see HIM do well. I can't explain why.
But he is terrible.

I really wanted Kwame to succeed. And I believed he would for far too long. That might be part of the reason why I've already moved to the fence on wall and would move him for a high pick--because it's beginning to feel like a flashback.

I also think it's easier to have hope in a vacuum. Like with Sacramento (well, Seattle)--everyone on that team sucks, so it's easy to hold out hope for Cousins. With the Wizards, we have Beal who is 19 and performing in a way that John Wall never has.

Sure Wall had stretches where he put up big numbers, but he has ALWAYS had glaring weaknesses. He's never had a stretch when he wasn't turning the ball over a lot. He's never had a stretch where he's making three pointers, or even a stretch when his shot looks pretty. He's only had two months in his career where he's shot above 45%, and one of those months only had 7 games.

Right now, Beal is playing fantastic basketball. The only thing I wish he was doing better would be if he were doing more of the exact same things he is doing. And he's 19. I really wish I felt the same way about Wall.

[closg00]

If this sentiment keeps-up booing at games will start and John will be dumped for nothing before the draft. I can see Ernie trading John + our first for some average vet PG.

[hands11]

Some of the comments tonight are kind of telling on Wall.

Wittman made a statement of his own, suggesting that several of his players did not accept coaching throughout the game.

"Tonight, we got what we deserved. We didn't deserve to win that game," Wittman said.

"We were more caught up in ourselves as individuals than the team," he added later. "That's the bottom line. We got guys that haven't been in the rotation complaining. The older guys try to help them; they won't listen. That just tells me, 'I'm just worried about myself. I'm not worried about winning this game.'"

Wittman was talking about the team generally. He was later asked about Wall specifically and quickly pivoted again to talking about the team.

"Whether it's a game, a stretch, two weeks, 10 days, you've got to fight through it. You can't succumb to it. You can't feel sorry for yourself. Not only John. We feel sorry for ourselves sometimes," he said.

"It wasn't about the team tonight," Wittman concluded before walking out. "That's what's disappointing."

I guess it's up to you to read into whether he was talking about Wall. Bradley Beal and Martell Webster, among others, agreed with their head coach about his general critique.

"He's right. We just have to be on the same page. We just have to realize it's not about me, me me, it's about we. We didn't show that tonight," Beal said. "Our body language tells it all. We just have to be men about it and accept the fact that someone else is playing good. Every night is not going to be your night, but there's other ways you can impact the game. We just got to stick with it."

"We got caught up in the emotions," Webster said. "Me, myself, I kind of got caught up in the game a little bit. As a veteran on this team, I have to do a better job of making sure, as a team and a unit, that we manage those and don't let them get the best of us. I was a victim of it."


Several players were asked about Wall himself. Here were their answers:

Beal: "When he's in a zone, he's hard to get to sometimes. But that's just the type of player he is. I'm kind of like that. I get frustrated and upset. You probably won't hear from me about it, but it's a learning process for him. It's a learning process for me and everyone else. Sometimes, the older guys don't have good games and we tell them to stick with it. They'll either listen or not. It's up to the player. You can tell him, but you can't make him, so to speak."

A.J. Price: "I'm not sure what it is right now. I don't think he's playing that type of bad, as bad as he thinks he's playing, but he's just got to stay with it. It's up to us as teammates to bring him with us, keep him up and stay confident."

Webster: "As a young player -- and I went through it too -- you've got to live in the moment. Once that moment's over, you've got to move on. As a young team, you shouldn't hold grudges. That's just every player's mentality. There's a lot of pride in this game, especially with the pressures of a point guard and a high-level point guard like John. Being young and having that pressure, it can get to you sometimes. Like I said, it's never going to be a perfect night. It's never going to be a perfect night. You're going to go through some bad stretches. It's how you manage those bad stretches and realizing that it's not about yourself, it's about the team, you can usually get over the hump. He's just got to keep chipping away. We all do. We're all victims of it. It happens."

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2013/2/27 ... -john-wall" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just so glad that we have Beal and Webster on the team. They still have Johns back but clearly they see what Wall was doing just like we did and I sadly expected to see him do. That is a problem.

What Beal said provides support to what I see happening. Beal is immuring as the young franchise player/mature/leader. This has got to be hard for Wall to stomach. Beal is smarter, more mature, a better interview and more talented; and there is little Wall can do to shine brighter then that. So instead of getting in line or standing by Beals side, he is trying to make himself more relevant. He is pressing and trying to do to much.

Beal should have had 23 shots last night. I was looking for his first 30 pt game with Nene out. I expect Webster to have a huge game. He took only 6 shots in 23 minutes. Why was Wall taking some of those shots he was taking ? Answer. Ego.

Wall is either going to grow up and get his ego in line or they will need to ship him off. Beal needs a partner. There can be ego and competition but at some point, your stars need to work it out. Look at KD and Westbrook. We all know that is mostly KDs team but we also know Westbrook wants and needs to feel like he is the man as well. KDs personality allows for that. He has a quit calm personality that is humble but at the same time, he has that fire in his belly. That situation works because of KD makes it work.

Here, I don't think the Wall and Beal thing has been worked out in Wall mind. He see it as his team. He was told it was his team. He can except Nene as a leader but Nene is in the post and older. Beal was brought here to compliment him. And overnight, he is seeing that this is quickly becoming Beals team and I don't think he likes it. Beal naturally gets the respect that Wall craves, fights for, and is quickly starting to lose.

With KD and Westbrook, KD was there first. I wonder how that situation would have worked out if Westbrook was there first and he thought it to be his team and then KD showed up.

But this is stuff that needs to get worked out as a team grows and get better. It takes time. This is just stage 2 of the rebuild. They still have several more steps to take. And for now, this is the main one that needs worked out.

[FAH1223]

If this sentiment keeps-up booing at games will start and John will be dumped for nothing before the draft. I can see Ernie trading John + our first for some average vet PG.

Ernie should be fired for not putting a team like this around John for two years. He also should be canned for the toxic culture he created that he's trying to clean up. The blame game is now permeated in John's psyche and we've seen it with Ernie time and time again.

Thank God for Beal and his demeanor. It's been awhile since we've had a player like him who doesn't get too down on the lows and not too high on the highs. He is way too mature for 19. I will give Grunfeld credit for putting a roster of high character folks and its good Beal won't be influenced by much of the toxic culture. Grunfeld still needs to be cut off.

[nate33]

I want to dial back the criticism of Wall's shot selection a little bit. Wall is taking a lot of shots per game because the defense is giving them to him. I'm sure Wall is being told that he NEEDS to make a few open midrange jumpers to open up the floor for his penetration. I don't see Wall shooting too many off-balance fadeaways or completely wild and hopeless drives to the basket.

Also, while I would like for Beal to take 23 shots on some nights, Beal so far hasn't really shown the ability to get that many shots off. Let's not overrate what Beal provides for this team. He is a smart basketball player who really knows how to score within the flow of the game, but if you forcefeed him shots, his percentages are going to drop precipitously. He's not really a shot creator at this stage of his career.

[ST21]

can't believe wall went from this

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBd39_BXq8c[/youtube]

to what he his now. hate to use the word but he's looking like a bust let's be honest.

[tontoz]

I want to dial back the criticism of Wall's shot selection a little bit. Wall is taking a lot of shots per game because the defense is giving them to him. I'm sure Wall is being told that he NEEDS to make a few open midrange jumpers to open up the floor for his penetration. I don't see Wall shooting too many off-balance fadeaways or completely wild and hopeless drives to the basket.

Wall doesn't need to be taking jumpers off the dribble in transition. And taking open jumpers isn't going to open up the lane when he is shooting only 30% on them. The defense is happy to see him taking those shots.

You don't need to take shots just because you are open. See Josh Smith.

[Jimmy Recard]

Watching him over the last few weeks, i can't help but think that this is the same guy that dropped 28 and 9 on the road in ATL in the second game of his career (including two late threes) that almost got us over the line. He followed up the next night in his DC debut with 29 and 13 and 9 steals in a win over Philly. Or a week later when he notched at triple double (19-13-10) and 6 steals in a win over Houston. Or that game last season when he single-handedly led us back from a 20 odd point deficit against the Rockets and almost won us the game, scoring most of his 38 in the fourth quarter.

I won't give up on him yet. As frustrating as it's been watching him over the last month, i still if he ever turns the corner he's gonna be a special player. To piigyback on what AFM said, i've never wanted a player to succeed as much since Gilbert coming back from injury. I got so pumped watching his interview with Jim Rome during the off-season (a few weeks before his injury was reported). All he was talking about was how much he'd been working on his game, how he'd changed his workout routine/diet, how excited he was for the season and how badly he wanted to get us to the playoffs this year.

It sucks to see hims struggling like this.

[Jimmy Recard]

Also, thanks Nate for posting that quote from Martell. Love that guys attitude. It's a breath of fresh air listening to him speak off the court about the team.