Player Developement issues. Has EVERY player regressed?

[Jay81]

I am talking about the players that were on the team last year that went through our offseason program,summer league,etc

Wall-Worse
Vesley-Way Worse if possible
Booker--Way Worse
Singleton-Worse
Mack-Cut
Nene-Worse
Cartier martin LOL
Seraphin-The biggest regression

the new guys have been good to decent but they wernt here last year

Beal very good
Okafor-Good
Ariza-Decent
Webster-Decent
AJ price-marginally okay

not one player on the roster got better from last year

[Jay81]

the only player who got marginally better was Crawford and we pretty much waived him

[montestewart]

A few seasons back, many of us got our hopes up. The Wizards in 06-07 had one of the best records in the East at the half, before collapsing to a 41-41 record and 7th seed. The next year, they overcame the loss of Arenas, and improved to 43-39, taking the Cavs to six games in the 1st round. The next year, still without Arenas, they lost Haywood too. Without their top offensive and defensive players, the team collapsed to 19-63.

The following year, Arenas and Haywood returned. Some of us rationalized that the Wizards were essentially adding Arenas, the newly acquired depth and shooting of Mike Miller and Randy Foye, the depth, versatility, and championship experience of Fabricio Oberto, and the developing games of Blatche, McGee, Young, and McGuire, to the 43-39 team of two seasons prior. It sounded good.

This year, the best case scenarios I saw (mid 40s wins, mid seed) relied heavily on much the same thinking: most or all young players would progress in developing their games, Wall would come back from offseason and injury with an improved shot/game, Beal would quickly look like he was worth the #3 pick, recent acquisition would meet or exceed expectations, and there would be no significant regressions.

I pretty much agree with your lists. All new acquisitions have met or exceeded my expectations. None of the players from last year's end of season roster have exceeded my expectations (which were not sky high to begin with) and most have fallen well short.

[AFM]

Nene isn't "worse". He's just injured. But he hasn't regressed as a player.
Vesely also isn't "worse". You can't get worse at something you never had a shred of talent at. That's like saying this year I got worse at playing the accordion.

[montestewart]

Nene isn't "worse". He's just injured. But he hasn't regressed as a player.
Vesely also isn't "worse". You can't get worse at something you never had a shred of talent at. That's like saying this year I got worse at playing the accordion.

In the extremely small sample with the Wizards last year, Nene had a PER of 24.2 (a career high) and WS/48 of .191 (comparable his career highs during the 3-year span hands11 so loves). This year he's at 16.9 (near career average) and .113 (well below career average). He was injured then, and he's injured now. He'll probably always be injured. I don't think he misses as many games, but he still plays part time minutes. I think he's regressed from what many perhaps hoped he'd show this year, but it doesn't really stand out on this team, because he's still usually the best player on the floor for the Wizards.

It may be a regression due to injury, but so might Booker's dropoff. The result is the same regardless, and both of them may be hampered by injuries for the rest of their careers. Nene was always a risk because of the obvious injury potential.

Vesely, with all his limitations, briefly showed last year a defensive intensity that allowed some to believe he might find a place in the NBA, not as a starter, but as a defensive-oriented energy big. No one is seeing any of that this year. I think that's a regression too, but it doesn't really stand out because it's a regression from the foothills rather than fa fall from a lofty peak.

Many Wizards fans (myself included) and many fans of other lame teams repeatedly flagellate themselves with whips woven from irrational glimmers of hope. Oww!

[Benjammin]

That's how we roll, B#^*hes, Wizards style!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I am talking about the players that were on the team last year that went through our offseason program,summer league,etc

Wall-Worse
Vesley-Way Worse if possible
Booker--Way Worse
Singleton-Worse
Mack-Cut
Nene-Worse
Cartier martin LOL
Seraphin-The biggest regression

the new guys have been good to decent but they wernt here last year

Beal very good
Okafor-Good
Ariza-Decent
Webster-Decent
AJ price-marginally okay

not one player on the roster got better from last year

Ted Leonsis and Ernie Grunfeld brought in new players who took away minutes and opportunities from every young player and all the players who were here last year.

The numbers this year are reflective of the worst general manager in the NBA's lack of insight on what reduced minutes would do to the young players who suddenly had nothing to look forward to after Okafor, Ariza, Pargo, Price, and Barron were thrust in front of them.

Vesely and Seraphin had started the last 15 and won the last 6 with them playing against other team's starters. What EG did was myopic and had predictable results. The players were not given anything but circumstances that guaranteed less minutes and less opportunities to improve. The trade of Okafor and Ariza was flat stupid because instead of just buying out Lewis suddenly the coaching staff had to juggle minutes and redefine roles among players who had no firm footing and no confidence. It introduced chaos, especially when Earl Barron was playing better than Okafor. Barron moved Vesely out of the line up which was beyond stupid for the Wizards front office to do.

Ernie Grunfeld is inept and Ted Leonsis is far removed from accountability. He just wants to sell tickets and to project a good image. The team is not going to win and the players are not going to be developed to stay in Washington as long as Ted and Ernie are the architects of this team.

[nuposse04]

We're not going to make the playoffs so why even start Oka/nene anymore, at the very least cap em each at 20 mins a game. If we aren't going to send the appropriate players to the D-League we need to salvage what we can with them by giving them playing time. Less logged minutes for Nene and Okafor would also allow them to heal up and put less unnecessary wear on them going forward.

[nate33]

We're not going to make the playoffs so why even start Oka/nene anymore, at the very least cap em each at 20 mins a game. If we aren't going to send the appropriate players to the D-League we need to salvage what we can with them by giving them playing time. Less logged minutes for Nene and Okafor would also allow them to heal up and put less unnecessary wear on them going forward.

It's a double-edged sword. You don't want to give minutes to players who haven't done the work to earn them. On the other hand, you don't want injured players to play in meaningless games.

I would fully endorse shutting Nene down, or at least cutting back his minutes. I'm not sure who among our amazingly sucky group of backup bigs should get those minutes. I guess I'd like to see Seraphin build some confidence in these last 20 games because he's the only young big on the roster with any hope to be anything more than a journeyman. I wouldn't do much with Okafor's minutes. The guy is earning every minute and you want him as an example for the rest of the young players. Okafor is also a huge factor in our defense.

Maybe we ought to move Nene to backup C like we did last year. Run the offense through Wall when he is in the game, and run the offense through Nene when Wall sits. Nene can usually abuse backups. So that would mean Okafor and Nene split the C minutes (Okafor gets 28, Nene gets 20). Seraphin, Singleton and Booker can get the PF minutes.

[payitforward]

^^^^
Ted has said repeatedly that our record this year matters. He's also said that if we play .500 ball from Wall's return to season end, he'll be satisfied.

As I've said (and it should be obvious) Ted's venture here is Monumental Sports, not the Wizards. It's the success of Monumental Sports that's paramount for him.

Ted looked at how fans were reacting to the young crew he was putting on the floor last year; he saw that the team wasn't developing very quickly; he noticed all the empty seats and all the fifty cent tickets on Stubhub. He saw all that and he blinked. Pure and simple.

Instead of staying the course w/ his noble 10-point plan, he and Ernie brought in players w/ the intention of making the Wizards a "respectable" (i.e. mediocre) NBA team. Instantly. Forget long term.

Oh there was a lot of talk about how these moves didn't really get in the way of the longer term effort to build a championship contender -- but that's what it was... "talk"; that's all it was.

They did succeed, btw -- we do have a mediocre team. And few ways to improve any time soon.

It's a marvelous combination, really -- cowardice, arrogance and incompetence -- just what you need. Compare to Darryl Morey (as I seem always to do... and why not?).

[Knighthonor]

I am talking about the players that were on the team last year that went through our offseason program,summer league,etc

Wall-Worse
Vesley-Way Worse if possible
Booker--Way Worse
Singleton-Worse
Mack-Cut
Nene-Worse
Cartier martin LOL
Seraphin-The biggest regression

the new guys have been good to decent but they wernt here last year

Beal very good
Okafor-Good
Ariza-Decent
Webster-Decent
AJ price-marginally okay

not one player on the roster got better from last year

The roster got bloated

Many players that were good last season aren't starters anymore.
KS was playing well this season before being benched for a returning NeNe, while Oka was taking the Center role.

Same issue for Booker. No play time for him much with Nene, Oka, KS all ahead of him.
Same issue been there for Jan.
If the Wizards want to develop Jan they need to play him in the games, not just the gym. Ether play him for the tanking in the NBA, or send him to the D-League as a starter there where he can develop his skills and confidence.
Also Jordan should have been there 6 man. He has the skills to sub for Beal and Wall, and sometimes Travor to play a 2 shooter wing. Bad line up of course.

The next player we draft will also be in a bloated position. If we get another forward, or center big, then what? See the issue here?

[dangermouse]

AFM mentioned Nene's injury, what about Booker? He's been injured + very erratic minutes (if he gets any at all). I don't think he has regressed as a player, same goes for Singleton. Singleton has had good games and bad games, I definitely do not think he has got any worse.

Seraphin looked the goods to start the season when Nene was out. Then he got lazy, that is what I put it down to. He has played much better in the last two games. He still makes some mistakes on defense etc. but give him time.

Speaking of Nene, the way his shoulder was wrapped up while he was sitting on the bench against the Bobcats, I think they should just let him sit the rest of the year and get healthy.... Screw the win/loss column. We know we have improved as a team (mostly defensively). Tank the rest, get a good draft pick, come back next season healthy and ready to ball.

[AFM]

Danger, I actually think Seraphin has regressed as a player. His first few games, he was very good offensively. I think this has led to over confidence. He refuses to pass out of the post, and when he does, he telegraphs it.
Honestly, he has a nice touch. But he needs to be more aggressive and not be such a black hole.

[Knighthonor]

AFM mentioned Nene's injury, what about Booker? He's been injured + very erratic minutes (if he gets any at all). I don't think he has regressed as a player, same goes for Singleton. Singleton has had good games and bad games, I definitely do not think he has got any worse.

Seraphin looked the goods to start the season when Nene was out. Then he got lazy, that is what I put it down to. He has played much better in the last two games. He still makes some mistakes on defense etc. but give him time.

Speaking of Nene, the way his shoulder was wrapped up while he was sitting on the bench against the Bobcats, I think they should just let him sit the rest of the year and get healthy.... Screw the win/loss column. We know we have improved as a team (mostly defensively). Tank the rest, get a good draft pick, come back next season healthy and ready to ball.

nothing worth tanking for that the wizards cant already reach in their current position.

[dangermouse]

Yes but, "we'll trade you the first overall pick for...." always sounds better than anything lower.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The strategy over the remaining 21 games should be to have by the end of the season Wall, Beal, Seraphin, and Vesely playing their best basketball and Booker hopefully being healthy.

--Booker really has not regressed, I agree dangermouse. He just needs to be healthy. Judging by his dunk last game, I think he is healthy now.

--Wall hitting a three is a rare occurrence. It was only the second he has made in one calendar year and his second of the season. If John Wall can hit maybe 6 or 8 more before the season ends at .300 or better that would be significant progress. I hope by the end of the season Wall is attempting threes when they are available. He needs to feel good about taking the shot. That is an area where he can definitely improve.

--Vesely just needs minutes. He's not as bad as he has looked this season. I doubt Jan stays a Wizard beyond next season. He is going to do like Pecherov, eventually, IMO.

--Seraphin needs to learn to kick the ball out and he needs to improve his rebounding. I think he is slightly less of a black hole now. His game could come on stronger by season's end.

--Singleton is the one player I believe there are no minutes for unless he plays SF. I don't see him having a great future at all with the Wizards unless Ariza opts out and Chris can get better at SF.

I think the Wizards need to try to get the most out of their young players moving forward.

[Higga]

The big thing is Wall. Couldn't care less about the rest, they're pretty much all just role players at best, but by now in his 3rd year Wall should be approaching all-star status at least. He's nowhere near really, he's basically an average, maybe a little above average starting PG but way too often he does dumb things on the court like run into three guys and shoot up a brick.

Hate to say it as I'm still a big Wall fan but it may be best if we cut bait and traded him while he still has some value. He'll probably go on to great things somewhere else but it doesn't look like it'll ever happen here. Rebuild around Brad Beal and hopefully Otto Porter or whoever else we can land in the lotto this year.

[TheKingOfVa360]

The big thing is Wall. Couldn't care less about the rest, they're pretty much all just role players at best, but by now in his 3rd year Wall should be approaching all-star status at least. He's nowhere near really, he's basically an average, maybe a little above average starting PG but way too often he does dumb things on the court like run into three guys and shoot up a brick.

Hate to say it as I'm still a big Wall fan but it may be best if we cut bait and traded him while he still has some value. He'll probably go on to great things somewhere else but it doesn't look like it'll ever happen here. Rebuild around Brad Beal and hopefully Otto Porter or whoever else we can land in the lotto this year.

If Wall was healthy to start this season, he would be an all-star this year. Not sure why you said he is nowhere near all-star status. His numbers as a rookie were as good as Jrue Holidays stats this year and Holiday made the all-star team. His stats in his 2nd season are better than Paul Georges current stats and he made the all-star team. The key is to win games then the media would hype our players instead of bashing them

[nate33]

The big thing is Wall. Couldn't care less about the rest, they're pretty much all just role players at best, but by now in his 3rd year Wall should be approaching all-star status at least. He's nowhere near really, he's basically an average, maybe a little above average starting PG but way too often he does dumb things on the court like run into three guys and shoot up a brick.

Hate to say it as I'm still a big Wall fan but it may be best if we cut bait and traded him while he still has some value. He'll probably go on to great things somewhere else but it doesn't look like it'll ever happen here. Rebuild around Brad Beal and hopefully Otto Porter or whoever else we can land in the lotto this year.

If Wall was healthy to start this season, he would be an all-star this year. Not sure why you said he is nowhere near all-star status. His numbers as a rookie were as good as Jrue Holidays stats this year and Holiday made the all-star team. His stats in his 2nd season are better than Paul Georges current stats and he made the all-star team. The key is to win games then the media would hype our players instead of bashing them

Holiday's numbers at the All Star break were a little better than they are now. He was averaging 19.0 points, 8.9 assists, 4.2 rebounds and 4.0 turnovers with a TS% of .512.

In Wall's best season, he averaged 16.3 points, 8.0 assists, 4.5 boards and 3.8 turnovers with a TS% of .502. This year, he is posting 16.9 points, 8.5 assists, and 3.9 rebounds per 36 with a whopping 4.3 turnovers and a ghastly .485 TS%

[TheKingOfVa360]

The big thing is Wall. Couldn't care less about the rest, they're pretty much all just role players at best, but by now in his 3rd year Wall should be approaching all-star status at least. He's nowhere near really, he's basically an average, maybe a little above average starting PG but way too often he does dumb things on the court like run into three guys and shoot up a brick.

Hate to say it as I'm still a big Wall fan but it may be best if we cut bait and traded him while he still has some value. He'll probably go on to great things somewhere else but it doesn't look like it'll ever happen here. Rebuild around Brad Beal and hopefully Otto Porter or whoever else we can land in the lotto this year.

If Wall was healthy to start this season, he would be an all-star this year. Not sure why you said he is nowhere near all-star status. His numbers as a rookie were as good as Jrue Holidays stats this year and Holiday made the all-star team. His stats in his 2nd season are better than Paul Georges current stats and he made the all-star team. The key is to win games then the media would hype our players instead of bashing them

Holiday's numbers at the All Star break were a little better than they are now. He was averaging 19.0 points, 8.9 assists, 4.2 rebounds and 4.0 turnovers with a TS% of .512.

In Wall's best season, he averaged 16.3 points, 8.0 assists, 4.5 boards and 3.8 turnovers with a TS% of .502. This year, he is posting 16.9 points, 8.5 assists, and 3.9 rebounds per 36 with a whopping 4.3 turnovers and a ghastly .485 TS%

That proves my point, it isn't a huge difference between a 2nd years Wall stats compared to a 4 year Holidays stats. To say Wall is no where near an all-star level isn't true. If guys like Holiday and Paul George can make the all-star team with similar stats then Wall isn't far from sneaking in on the all-star team just like they did.