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Hey Keveen, you suck and are pissing me off. #KevinSeraphinLife

But seriously, in just 365 days my attitude toward this guy is a complete opposite. He sucks at rebounding, sucks on help defense, sucks on offensive decision making.

Very frustrating and sucky.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GhE9-9qA2c[/youtube]

yup....

^ Seraphin is the new Mcgee

How did I know this thread was coming

MikeTheKid wrote:How did I know this thread was coming

We're mad late on this.

I would have made one for Vesley but he has always been amazingly sucky aside from the last few games last season.

Seraphin has shown promise and skills but he doesn't look like he'll get it together. Too many brain farts for some reason. Sure, Okafor takes minutes but does Kevin do anything but tweet his own hashtag?

GhostsOfGil wrote:^ Seraphin is the new Mcgee

Pretty much - and with much less talent.

Did you all forget last season? They not using him right to his talent. That's the problem with the Wizards. They don't use players to their skill and talent. This why they don't develop well in Washington.

It's like drafting RG3 for the Skins and telling him never to run the ball. What development you expect out of that?

He's the next one to go, me thinks.

Knighthonor wrote:Did you all forget last season? They not using him right to his talent. That's the problem with the Wizards. They don't use players to their skill and talent. This why they don't develop well in Washington.

It's like drafting RG3 for the Skins and telling him never to run the ball. What development you expect out of that?

+1

Knighthonor wrote:Did you all forget last season? They not using him right to his talent. That's the problem with the Wizards. They don't use players to their skill and talent. This why they don't develop well in Washington.

It's like drafting RG3 for the Skins and telling him never to run the ball. What development you expect out of that?

How so ?

They feed him in the post. They set him up for open top of the key shots. He gets plenty of opportunities on offense. The league has just scouted him now. They started to trap him and learned he couldn't make good decisions out of that. He has started to get better but he still isn't great at it.

Aside from that, who is stopping him from grabbing more rebounds. I don't think the Wizards are scheming him out of doing that.

Last year he posted better numbers on a worse team. The team has more structure now. Ultimately the goal is to post good numbers on a team that wins. Posting great numbers on a losing team doesn't get you as much cred.

Put Kevin on another .500 ish team and I think you will see the same Kevin the Wizards are seeing.

Its on him to grow up and get better. Beal seemed to manage just fine and he is only 19.

GhostsOfGil wrote:^ Seraphin is the new Mcgee

Yep, with half the talent & no where near the production of Javale.

Does Seraphin still have any trade value at this point?

FAH1223 wrote:Hey Keveen, you suck and are pissing me off. #KevinSeraphinLife

But seriously, in just 365 days my attitude toward this guy is a complete opposite. He sucks at rebounding, sucks on help defense, sucks on offensive decision making.

Very frustrating and sucky.

He doesn't suck at help D. Here lately it looks like the team is mailing it in a bit but his help D is generally good.

But he does suck at rebounding and seems to have a phobia about taking it strong to the basket. Hopefully he will work on his weaknesses this summer. Last summer i think he was too satisfied with his late season performance and didn't work on his weaknesses.

tontoz wrote:

FAH1223 wrote:Hey Keveen, you suck and are pissing me off. #KevinSeraphinLife

But seriously, in just 365 days my attitude toward this guy is a complete opposite. He sucks at rebounding, sucks on help defense, sucks on offensive decision making.

Very frustrating and sucky.

He doesn't suck at help D. Here lately it looks like the team is mailing it in a bit but his help D is generally good.

But he does suck at rebounding and seems to have a phobia about taking it strong to the basket. Hopefully he will work on his weaknesses this summer. Last summer i think he was too satisfied with his late season performance and didn't work on his weaknesses.

I think Randy Wittman would disagree with you on the help D part. He's called timeouts in frustration at least a couple of dozen times this season right after teams get easy layups or dunks because Seraphin is too slow, too stupid, and/or just not aware enough to make defensive switches.

Ruzious wrote:

tontoz wrote:He doesn't suck at help D. Here lately it looks like the team is mailing it in a bit but his help D is generally good.

But he does suck at rebounding and seems to have a phobia about taking it strong to the basket. Hopefully he will work on his weaknesses this summer. Last summer i think he was too satisfied with his late season performance and didn't work on his weaknesses.

I think Randy Wittman would disagree with you on the help D part. He's called timeouts in frustration at least a couple of dozen times this season right after teams get easy layups or dunks because Seraphin is too slow, too stupid, and/or just not aware enough to make defensive switches.

I haven't seen that at all. He rarely gives up uncontested dunks/layups, generally preferring hard fouls if he can't get a block. He isn't as good as Okafor on help D but is still good. And for his size he is definitely not slow.

The Wizards are one of the best defensive teams in the league and Okafor is a big reason for that. And there hasn't been a steep drop in the defense when Seraphin comes in.

Dat2U wrote:

GhostsOfGil wrote:^ Seraphin is the new Mcgee

Yep, with half the talent & no where near the production of Javale.

Does Seraphin still have any trade value at this point?

When he was here the opposing team could get a layup any time they wanted by running a pick and roll with McGee's man. The defense improved by a mile as soon as McGee left.

tontoz wrote:
I haven't seen that at all. He rarely gives up uncontested dunks/layups, generally preferring hard fouls if he can't get a block. He isn't as good as Okafor on help D but is still good. And for his size he is definitely not slow.

The Wizards are one of the best defensive teams in the league and Okafor is a big reason for that. And there hasn't been a steep drop in the defense when Seraphin comes in.

Seraphin is an excellent post defender.

But last night was ridiculous. He let 37 year old Ray Allen get a couple of easy baskets on the baseline. Inexcusable right there. Just flat out.

hands11 wrote:

Knighthonor wrote:Did you all forget last season? They not using him right to his talent. That's the problem with the Wizards. They don't use players to their skill and talent. This why they don't develop well in Washington.

It's like drafting RG3 for the Skins and telling him never to run the ball. What development you expect out of that?

How so ?

They feed him in the post. They set him up for open top of the key shots. He gets plenty of opportunities on offense. The league has just scouted him now. They started to trap him and learned he couldn't make good decisions out of that. He has started to get better but he still isn't great at it.

Aside from that, who is stopping him from grabbing more rebounds. I don't think the Wizards are scheming him out of doing that.

Last year he posted better numbers on a worse team. The team has more structure now. Ultimately the goal is to post good numbers on a team that wins. Posting great numbers on a losing team doesn't get you as much cred.

Put Kevin on another .500 ish team and I think you will see the same Kevin the Wizards are seeing.

Its on him to grow up and get better. Beal seemed to manage just fine and he is only 19.

Exactly. He is getting his opportunities. He is also forcing the action by settling for jumpshots every damn time he is out 15-20 feet.

What I love about Nene is he will drive to the basket hard when his shot isn't falling or drive up a little bit to take a closer jumpshot. Seraphin NEVER does that. NEVER.

I agree with tontoz that Seraphin is miles better than McGee at help D. He is frustrating as hell with the turnovers on offense, and his rebounding is poor, but his defense is pretty solid.

What's really weird about Seraphin is that I think he has improved his basketball skills quite a bit since last year. You can tell he works on his game. He has improved his shooting percentage from 16-23 feet from .375 last year (on just 16 attempts) to .436 (on 101 attempts). His release is quicker, smoother and more balanced. His hook shot percentage has improved from 66% to an incredible 72%.

Unfortunately, his improvement in basketball skills hasn't translated into an improvement in basketball effectiveness. Maybe he has fallen in love with the jump shot too much. Or maybe it's just that defenses have adjusted and he has been unable to adapt.

Another issue is that I think he is better at center, but he has been stuck playing PF most of the year. He has enough trouble dealing with double teams when he is the center and there are four players to spread the floor. Now, he's got to deal with double teams when playing alongside Okafor or Nene and the lane is even more clogged. He also doesn't get the opportunity to block shots as much. The numbers at 82games.com bear this out. Seraphin shoots 49% and turns the ball over 3.2 times per 48 minutes when playing C. When playing PF, he shoots 41% and turns the ball over 4.2 times per 48. The team is 2 points better offensively with Seraphin at C (relative to PF) and there is no difference defensively. (And keep in mind, he probably played most of his C minutes early in the season when Nene was hurt, which coincided with when Wall was hurt and the team was 0-12. The fact that his on/off numbers still look better at C is pretty amazing.)

Like Wall, I think Seraphin would look better alongside a stretch 4.

nate33 wrote:
Like Wall, I think Seraphin would look better alongside a stretch 4.

Good point. Hard to double him and force turnovers in the post if the floor is spread. better. Playing him with another big forces him to think/react way too much in tight spaces. That's not to say that he'd evolve into a reliable player if he played with stretch 4. His rebounding and ability to get to the line still suck.

FAH1223 wrote:Seraphin is an excellent post defender.

But last night was ridiculous. He let 37 year old Ray Allen get a couple of easy baskets on the baseline. Inexcusable right there. Just flat out.

Last night they were clearly mailing it in. That is why Vesely and Singleton played so much in the second half. I give them credit for playing hard pretty consistently all year but last night they weren't interested.

Exactly. He is getting his opportunities. He is also forcing the action by settling for jumpshots every damn time he is out 15-20 feet.

What I love about Nene is he will drive to the basket hard when his shot isn't falling or drive up a little bit to take a closer jumpshot. Seraphin NEVER does that. NEVER.

Pretty much. If Nene has a clear path to the basket he will drive immediately. If his man is in front of him then he might settle for a jumper. Seraphin pretty much always settles for a jumper.

I have seen him pass up an open jumper and drive twice all season that i can remember. He also shoots his jumpers too quickly, as if the defender is actually going to contest it. Dude, you are wide open. Take your time.

FAH1223 wrote:

tontoz wrote:
I haven't seen that at all. He rarely gives up uncontested dunks/layups, generally preferring hard fouls if he can't get a block. He isn't as good as Okafor on help D but is still good. And for his size he is definitely not slow.

The Wizards are one of the best defensive teams in the league and Okafor is a big reason for that. And there hasn't been a steep drop in the defense when Seraphin comes in.

Seraphin is an excellent post defender.

But last night was ridiculous. He let 37 year old Ray Allen get a couple of easy baskets on the baseline. Inexcusable right there. Just flat out.

I was in section 105, right behind the most egregious Allen walk-in baskets, where Wittman immediately called time out afterwards. Sam Cassel came right up to Seraphin and got in his grill. Seraphin's response was to bring his hands out to the side, palms forward, his body posture saying in essense, "Why me? I did nothing wrong!" His response made clear he really doesn't get the most basic defensive responses, and worse, that he doesn't take responsibility for his mistakes. Hopefully he is more contemplative when they show him the film.