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Continued from here

link to all 6 previous 2013 Draft Threads

Part I
Part II
Part III
Part IV
Part V
Part VI

I wouldn't trade up for the #1 pick. Too much pressure on the player drafted to live up to that status. I'm not sure anyone in this draft is capable of doing so. I'm more than happy to stay at 3 and choose b/w who's left out of Noel, Porter & Oladipo.

Nuposse said in the previous thread that he thinks Noel could be better than Davis. I don't think offensively there's a chance. Davis's per36 numbers were 17/10 with 2 blocks and 1.5 steals. It'd be very impressive if Noel can even come close to those numbers as a rookie much less surpass. That said, he'll probably have more highlight reel moments by virtue that he's a very VERY good at creating highlights.

Anyway, to answer the (non)question from last thread, if we have a shot at Noel you take it and run with it. He's scheduled to be back by December but even if he sits the entire year, I'd do it readily. Double up on talent in 2014 and come out guns a'blazing.

Noel can't hold Davis' jockstrap offensively. Noel has a chance to be a great defender. Davis has a chance to be a great all-around two-way player. Sorta like Noah vs. Duncan. Big difference IMO.

I would certainly talk with Cleveland about the price, because it might not be very high. If they really want Porter or Len, they could still get one at 3 - and pay a slightly lower slot price. So, If the cost is just a couple of Ernie's kids and maybe a very heavily protected future 1st, do it.

Having said that, I don't think Noel is at Davis' level, because I think Davis is going to be a top 5 player in the NBA.

I gotta say, if Zeller actually can develop into an automatic-ish outside shooter, I'd be very tempted to trade down and pick him, or even select at 3. And I love Porter.

go'stags wrote:I gotta say, if Zeller actually can develop into an automatic-ish outside shooter, I'd be very tempted to trade down and pick him, or even select at 3. And I love Porter.

Definitely agree not to trade up to #1. Lets sit at #3. That said, Zeller is pretty good. There might be trades that make sense to go down just a few picks to pick up a Bennett or Zeller.

pancakes3 wrote:Nuposse said in the previous thread that he thinks Noel could be better than Davis. I don't think offensively there's a chance. Davis's per36 numbers were 17/10 with 2 blocks and 1.5 steals. It'd be very impressive if Noel can even come close to those numbers as a rookie much less surpass. That said, he'll probably have more highlight reel moments by virtue that he's a very VERY good at creating highlights.

Well he doesn't have to be as good a shooter as Davis IMO. I think his first step is better then Davis' and so long as he can get some mid range game going in 2-3 years it would help him immensely. I don't see Duncan when I see Davis, I see LMA with better defense and slightly less post potential but possibly better range.

If Noel can pull a Wall and REALLY improve his jumpshot I could see him being a rich man's Ibaka (but never a 3 pt shooter).

nuposse04 wrote:Well he doesn't have to be as good a shooter as Davis IMO. I think his first step is better then Davis' and so long as he can get some mid range game going in 2-3 years it would help him immensely. I don't see Duncan when I see Davis, I see LMA with better defense and slightly less post potential but possibly better range.

If Noel can pull a Wall and REALLY improve his jumpshot I could see him being a rich man's Ibaka (but never a 3 pt shooter).

I gotta say, your comps are really weird. I see nothing in Davis that reminds me of Aldridge except length. Aldridge was a very good offensive player who was averaging 18 points per game by his 2nd season and has been the best offensive big man in the game for years with the exception of Dirk. Davis has demonstrated virtually no offensive ability at this point.

I suppose Ibaka is a possible comp in that he has his length and athleticism. If Davis develops an offensive game, I think it'll be in a more limited, role-playing capacity like Ibaka as a finisher and catch-and-shoot player from midrange.

nate33 wrote:

nuposse04 wrote:Well he doesn't have to be as good a shooter as Davis IMO. I think his first step is better then Davis' and so long as he can get some mid range game going in 2-3 years it would help him immensely. I don't see Duncan when I see Davis, I see LMA with better defense and slightly less post potential but possibly better range.

If Noel can pull a Wall and REALLY improve his jumpshot I could see him being a rich man's Ibaka (but never a 3 pt shooter).

I gotta say, your comps are really weird. I see nothing in Davis that reminds me of Aldridge except length. Aldridge was a very good offensive player who was averaging 18 points per game by his 2nd season and has been the best offensive big man in the game for years with the exception of Dirk. Davis has demonstrated virtually no offensive ability at this point.

I suppose Ibaka is a possible comp in that he has his length and athleticism. If Davis develops an offensive game, I think it'll be in a more limited, role-playing capacity like Ibaka as a finisher and catch-and-shoot player from midrange.

Well I was just trying to pick a relatively great PF who isn't in the stratosphere Duncan is in. I think that comparison is asking A LOT of Davis. LMA was also 22 I think his 2nd season...I don't think Davis will ever quite be as strong on the block as LMA but he won't be a liability in a few years. He has a very smooth looking jumshot. I don't see an Ibaka type player in Davis either...he's long...but he doesn't come off as explosive. He's very fluid though.

I think its odd people seem to be of the mindset Noel must be pigeon holed into the mold of a shotblocker/defender. I don't think it is above his pedigree to develop a competent offensive game.

nuposse04 wrote:Well I was just trying to pick a relatively great PF who isn't in the stratosphere Duncan is in. I think that comparison is asking A LOT of Davis. LMA was also 22 I think his 2nd season...I don't think Davis will ever quite be as strong on the block as LMA but he won't be a liability in a few years. He has a very smooth looking jumshot. I don't see an Ibaka type player in Davis either...he's long...but he doesn't come off as explosive. He's very fluid though.

I think its odd people seem to be of the mindset Noel must be pigeon holed into the mold of a shotblocker/defender. I don't think it is above his pedigree to develop a competent offensive game.

I think its far more likely that Noel becomes a rich person's Noah. He will be incredibly impactful, and probably will be a good finisher on offense, and may develop some moves around the basket. I don't know that you can count on a midrange shot from the guy, nor do you need that. If he gets ORebs at a high clip, he will be able to score well, and really dominate the game in some ways.

Post from the previous thread:

Dat2U wrote:Seeing how Cleveland has drafted the last 3 years, it would not surprise me if Porter or Oladipo is the pick. Also remember, this is the same franchise that took Tristan Thompson over Jonas Valanciunas because Valanciunas was staying overseas and Cleveland was unwilling to wait a year for him. So Noel not being a lock at #1 doesn't surprise me sense he wouldn't be ready to even begin practicing with the team until December or so.

To add to that, Gilbert and his kid on lottery night made those "we won't be here next year" comments. Porter starts for them on Day One, and probably makes a guy like Thompson at least a little bit better. So I definitely think it's possible they take Porter #1. I'm also interested to see what trade down rumors surface over the next week or so.

LyricalRico wrote:Post from the previous thread:

Dat2U wrote:Seeing how Cleveland has drafted the last 3 years, it would not surprise me if Porter or Oladipo is the pick. Also remember, this is the same franchise that took Tristan Thompson over Jonas Valanciunas because Valanciunas was staying overseas and Cleveland was unwilling to wait a year for him. So Noel not being a lock at #1 doesn't surprise me sense he wouldn't be ready to even begin practicing with the team until December or so.

To add to that, Gilbert and his kid on lottery night made those "we won't be here next year" comments. Porter starts for them on Day One, and probably makes a guy like Thompson at least a little bit better. So I definitely think it's possible they take Porter #1. I'm also interested to see what trade down rumors surface over the next week or so.

Cleveland ought to make a deal with Phoenix or Charlotte. Both of those teams should be tanking for next season and picking Noel would help them do it. Charlotte has a future first from Portland (though they also have traded one to Chicago). Phoenix has future firsts from Minnesota and the Lakers.

Cleveland trades: #1
Charlotte trades: #4, Sessions, Portland '14 first

or

Phoenix trades, #5, Dudley and/or Scola, Lakers '15 first (only top 5 protected)

Cavs would likely choose one of Bennett, Oladipo, Zeller, Len at 4 or 5

datwrote

So what happens if Noel & Porter are on the board at #3? Who do you take?

Hard to say. An decent argument could probably be made for Len, Dipo, Zeller or Bennett.
I don't like Bennett as much but could see the rationale behind the other 3.
For us, you have to wonder how much they'll weigh need into the choice.
Dipo might be the BPA but Zeller and Len would be better fits, Zeller more
immediately and Len more long term.

LyricalRico wrote:Post from the previous thread:

Dat2U wrote:Seeing how Cleveland has drafted the last 3 years, it would not surprise me if Porter or Oladipo is the pick. Also remember, this is the same franchise that took Tristan Thompson over Jonas Valanciunas because Valanciunas was staying overseas and Cleveland was unwilling to wait a year for him. So Noel not being a lock at #1 doesn't surprise me sense he wouldn't be ready to even begin practicing with the team until December or so.

To add to that, Gilbert and his kid on lottery night made those "we won't be here next year" comments. Porter starts for them on Day One, and probably makes a guy like Thompson at least a little bit better. So I definitely think it's possible they take Porter #1. I'm also interested to see what trade down rumors surface over the next week or so.

I'm betting that Cleveland is doing everything possible to trade the pick. They're going to try to get maximal value out of it, which probably translates into getting additional assets. I'd guess a Bobcats or Suns trade is in the works for this. The question though is whether anyone really wants it for what Cleveland wants in return.

^
But the Cavs want Porter and he won't last past us. I think Cleveland has to call us if they want to trade down.

It's a game of chicken. Cleveland wants Porter but doesn't really want to take him at #1. Orlando won't trade up because they're just as happy with McLemore as they are with Noel. It doesn't bother us much if Cleveland drafts Noel because we'll end up with Porter. The only thing that scares us if if Cleveland actually drafts Porter, leaving Orlando to draft Noel.

So what do we do if Cleveland demands a future 1st from us to move up to #1. If we don't, they'll threaten to go ahead and draft Porter and leave us with the nightmare scenario of having neither Noel or Porter on the board.

Do we consider Noel to be so much better of an option than Bennett that's it's worth sacrificing a future 1st? (I'd definitely give up the #38, I'm just conflicted about giving up anything more.)

After he was mentioned, I looked up Mouhammadou Jaiteh. I really like his stats, he has good size and athleticism. He's 6'11, big and strong with good length. He averaged 16 and 9, 67% from the FT line (up 10% from the year before) and 63% from the field, in 27 minutes of play per game. So yeah I would take this guy in the second round, He seems like a guy who could learn from Okafur.

If we land Porter at 3, or Bennett, we should take this kid and a PG in the second and call it a day.

i think Joakim Noah is a easy but lazy and undersell of Noel. Noel has a very special feel for the game. 4 blocks, 2 steals, and 1.6 apg for a "raw" prospect that was really an afterthought for a good chunk of the games that he played is incredible. Even with the injury I think he stands a very good chance of being significantly better than Noah and Chandler.

nate33 wrote:So what do we do if Cleveland demands a future 1st from us to move up to #1. If we don't, they'll threaten to go ahead and draft Porter and leave us with the nightmare scenario of having neither Noel or Porter on the board.

Do we consider Noel to be so much better of an option than Bennett that's it's worth sacrificing a future 1st? (I'd definitely give up the #38, I'm just conflicted about giving up anything more.)

I think the nightmare scenario contingency plan is to let Cleveland deal with the consequences of their spite. We can easily draft McLemore and trade him for Zeller/Adams/Len AND dump Ves/Singleton. Cleveland would be worse off in the long run in not getting a Center while paying Porter #1 overall money while we get to still add depth and shed dead weight.

nate33 wrote:^
But the Cavs want Porter and he won't last past us. I think Cleveland has to call us if they want to trade down.

It's a game of chicken. Cleveland wants Porter but doesn't really want to take him at #1. Orlando won't trade up because they're just as happy with McLemore as they are with Noel. It doesn't bother us much if Cleveland drafts Noel because we'll end up with Porter. The only thing that scares us if if Cleveland actually drafts Porter, leaving Orlando to draft Noel.

So what do we do if Cleveland demands a future 1st from us to move up to #1. If we don't, they'll threaten to go ahead and draft Porter and leave us with the nightmare scenario of having neither Noel or Porter on the board.

Do we consider Noel to be so much better of an option than Bennett that's it's worth sacrificing a future 1st? (I'd definitely give up the #38, I'm just conflicted about giving up anything more.)

Cleveland trading down only works if they have two players they are equally OK with. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cavs would be happy with Olapido as much as Porter. Olapido shows up really well on the analytics, so its not out of the realm of possibility. This would give them a great 3 guard rotation. Waiters could play with Olapido just fine. If this is the case, they would be more worried that the Suns or Bobcats want someone other than Olapido - most likely Noel or Mclemore.

EDIT: And no, in this draft, we definitely don't give up a first. We find 3 players we are OK with drafting and pick according to our board.