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Mods: I thought this merited it's own discussion, as it diverts from the rah rah of the "Appreciation" thread, but feel free to merge if you want to keep it clean.

So the Wizards can extend Wall up until October 30th. If they don't, they cannot extend him until next summer.

Central questions:

(1) Would you give him a max deal (starting at around $14M, i believe with 7.5% annual bumps)?

(2) Would you make him the organization's designated 5-year max player? If they give this to Wall, the most Beal or any other building block player is four years.

(3) Should they extend him now or wait until next summer? The main benefits of signing Wall now are keeping him off the restricted FA market and (presumably) making him feel good.

(4) What do you think the Wizards will do?

Starting with the last question first, I think the Wiz will give Wall a five year max deal before the season. It's the type of move that lacks any boldness (or the right type, at least) and imagination that has become their calling card.

I'd wait -- unless Wall was willing to give me a discount now. While he showed flashes of unquestioned brilliance last season, i need to see a more sustained period of that production level and health in order to max him out. The Wizards could still match any offer sheet Wall would sign next summer; and I'm guessing most teams wouldn't even both trying (see Pekovic situation). Even if they did, I wouldn't worry about any residual mistrust or negativity once the Wiz match it. Roy Hibbert signed a max offer sheet with Portland and you haven't heard anything about it souring his relationship with the Pacers.

The Wiz should communicate to Wall that they want him as part of their future for sure, but the business reality of a capped system is that money they give to him is money they can't give to someone else to help build a contender. At the end of the day he may not go for it, but I think there's minimal downside in trying.

1. No to a max deal. I think we could keep him for a little bit less. Worst comes to worst we wait and then just max him next year anyway, but we need to give ourselves flexibility in case Wall doesn't take that next step(I think he will anyway).

2. I'd see if I can resign him to a 4 year deal for a little less than the max first. I think Wall will end up as our franchise player but it's good to give yourself options. I mean if Beal blows up and becomes the top SG in the East(possible with the lack of quality 2s left in the East)then we'd have to consider making him the designed 5 year player.

3. I would extend him now if I can, but like I said above try to keep him for a little less than the max. I don't want to max him out until I can see him play at an elite level over an entire year and not just two months.

4. I think the Wizards will cave and max him out, but it won't look bad as Wall will have his best year yet and be named an All-Star this year.

The primary reason to do Wall's extension now would be to sign him for less than the max. They can max him out next summer, match offers, etc.

If we're basing his salary on past performance, he's not a max salary player. BUT, in March, he played like a borderline MVP candidate. Which would be max worthy -- if he could do it over a full season.

The potential downside in not giving him an extension right away is that Wall decides his feelings are hurt and then tries to depart. Or, the team sucks and Wall decides it's too much work to push the boulder up the hill and tries to find a spot with more help.

What WILL the Wizards do? I think they may try and do what they did with Arenas -- offer the max and the 5th year, but see if he'll take a little less so they'll have more space to add other players. The hazard with that strategy is that players who do that may feel they have the right to provide input on where that money should be spent.

I would give him the max and not even mess around about it. We don't have any argument not to. He took the third year leap we were hoping for and in combination with our win/loss record with him on the court it simply is what it is.

Johns done everything we've asked of him. He's one of the hardest working guys in the league--he and Durant are two of the most visible guys in the off-season playing games in summer leagues and working out.

Just pay him.

He shouldn't get the max.

5 years and $68 million should be what is given to Wall.

However, next summer he is Restricted. And I'm sure a team like LAL would offer him the 4 year max since they probably won't get LeBron.

Dark Faze wrote:I would give him the max and not even mess around about it. We don't have any argument not to. He took the third year leap we were hoping for and in combination with our win/loss record with him on the court it simply is what it is.

Johns done everything we've asked of him. He's one of the hardest working guys in the league--he and Durant are two of the most visible guys in the off-season playing games in summer leagues and working out.

Just pay him.

I agree with this.

Financially, it makes a little more sense to wait. It removes the risk of injury and we can ultimately match a deal with 4.5% raises rather than give him 7.5% raises, but I don't think it's worth it. We don't want a disgruntled star and we don't want to further sully our lousy reputation as a franchise. Wall is a superstar caliber talent (even if he is a little rough around the edges) and a very hard worker Pay the man.

Also, if Wall should happen to be named MVP this year and become eligible for a supermax contract, we will have saved money by locking him into a standard max contract.

Based off EG's previous "extension negotiations", I expect a 5 year max.

fishercob wrote:I'd wait -- unless Wall was willing to give me a discount now. While he showed flashes of unquestioned brilliance last season, i need to see a more sustained period of that production level and health in order to max him out. The Wizards could still match any offer sheet Wall would sign next summer; and I'm guessing most teams wouldn't even both trying (see Pekovic situation). Even if they did, I wouldn't worry about any residual mistrust or negativity once the Wiz match it. Roy Hibbert signed a max offer sheet with Portland and you haven't heard anything about it souring his relationship with the Pacers.

The Wiz should communicate to Wall that they want him as part of their future for sure, but the business reality of a capped system is that money they give to him is money they can't give to someone else to help build a contender. At the end of the day he may not go for it, but I think there's minimal downside in trying.

I agree with the philosophy. The Wizards have rewarded players for a few months of good play (see Andray Blatche) and we know how that turned out. Yes Wall played like a max player for short period but he is also prone to injuries. Although I wonder if Wall does take it to heart. Hibbert and Wall are different personalities. For instance, Wall has gone on record in the press saying that he is a max contract player.

If Wall steps up his play for the entire season, then the Wizards can reward him this upcoming offseason with a max contract. But there are guys who are pretty good point guards who make less than the max (Rondo, Curry, Parker).

I'm in the camp that favors offering him the 5 year max now but agree with Nivek in that we should at least see if he's willing to give a discount. We've already partially done what he's wanted and re-signed Martell to a slightly above market deal (considering his injury history).

This team is trying to move past years of institutional failure and rewarding guys like Wall who are both good for the culture and have the talent to be top ten players in the league. I want Wall to be a cheerleader for the organization going forward and I've seen enough from him that I think that he's the player on this team most likely to be deserving of the 5 year max. Obviously it would be easier to improve the organization's image if EG was gone as well but extending Wall is a step in the right direction. At some point we need to identify our Duncan, Kobe, etc as the standard bearer for the organization and at this point he's the best bet.

I don't see any feasible scenario where the Wiz extends Wall this year. It would take an unprecedented gesture of magnanimousness for Wall to go to the Wizards on his own volition and say - "Hey guys. i don't need that much money. You take it and use it to pay Blatche's amnesty or Flip's contract or something else instead. I'm good for now (and the next 5 years)."

Does it make a difference as far as cap space next off-season? Or would the cap hold on him be pretty much equal to the max salary for him?

Ruzious wrote:Does it make a difference as far as cap space next off-season? Or would the cap hold on him be pretty much equal to the max salary for him?

Wall's cap hold is the maximum salary for players with 0-6 years experience. The only way the Wizards save any cap space is if they sign him for less than the maximum.

Really no point here to resign him other than if you can get him for less than max; try for a bit less than max, if no go wait till next year.

nate33 wrote:

Dark Faze wrote:I would give him the max and not even mess around about it. We don't have any argument not to. He took the third year leap we were hoping for and in combination with our win/loss record with him on the court it simply is what it is.

Johns done everything we've asked of him. He's one of the hardest working guys in the league--he and Durant are two of the most visible guys in the off-season playing games in summer leagues and working out.

Just pay him.

I agree with this.

Financially, it makes a little more sense to wait. It removes the risk of injury and we can ultimately match a deal with 4.5% raises rather than give him 7.5% raises, but I don't think it's worth it. We don't want a disgruntled star and we don't want to further sully our lousy reputation as a franchise. Wall is a superstar caliber talent (even if he is a little rough around the edges) and a very hard worker Pay the man.

Also, if Wall should happen to be named MVP this year and become eligible for a supermax contract, we will have saved money by locking him into a standard max contract.

I agree with both of you. There is no point in playing around, just max him out now. Wall seems like the type that will play even harder knowing that the organization has his back and wants him around at all costs.

Now and max. I really don't see the point of **** around over one or two million dollars a year given the way money is being thrown around in this league.

He identifies with the team, puts in the work, and has the desire to be great.

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:

nate33 wrote:

Dark Faze wrote:I would give him the max and not even mess around about it. We don't have any argument not to. He took the third year leap we were hoping for and in combination with our win/loss record with him on the court it simply is what it is.

Johns done everything we've asked of him. He's one of the hardest working guys in the league--he and Durant are two of the most visible guys in the off-season playing games in summer leagues and working out.

Just pay him.

I agree with this.

Financially, it makes a little more sense to wait. It removes the risk of injury and we can ultimately match a deal with 4.5% raises rather than give him 7.5% raises, but I don't think it's worth it. We don't want a disgruntled star and we don't want to further sully our lousy reputation as a franchise. Wall is a superstar caliber talent (even if he is a little rough around the edges) and a very hard worker Pay the man.

Also, if Wall should happen to be named MVP this year and become eligible for a supermax contract, we will have saved money by locking him into a standard max contract.

I agree with both of you. There is no point in playing around, just max him out now. Wall seems like the type that will play even harder knowing that the organization has his back and wants him around at all costs.

Wall had had knee issues for basically his entire career. He missed half the season next year. While he's healthy now -- and I hope beyond hope that he remains healthy for the rest of his career -- he carries a higher injury risk than a player without those knee issues.

So if Wall blows out his knee this season -- or late in the season -- wouldn't it be better if that next contract weren't signed yet?

I just don't see the upside to moving any earlier than we need to on this.

Lots of talk about Wall's desire and his hard work. Those are great things. To be worth the max, those traits must translate into on-court performance. And, they haven't for very long portions of his career. There's more risk to giving him a maximum contract than there was for the game's true superstars. He may become a true star, but he's not there yet.

If Wall and the Wiz are negotiating now then he could possibly be giving the Wiz a discount, Ive said before if Wall takes anything close to Steph Curry's contract extension (4/44), even if its 4/48 like Tyreke I would respect him forever and be so happy but hey its EG so I expect the max

I would assure him that he is the team's future and star. And then I would layout the plan for the next four years. Then I would show him the places where him getting the max would hinder our ability to get him a championship ring (if it does). I would then ask him if he could use his influence to help building a team. And I would ask if he felt taking a little less than the max would help the team (and himself) to acquire a ring. I would put the ball in his court. He deserves the max. And I would make that clear as well. But, does he want to hinder the team from possibly bringing in two stars in the future (or resigning Beal) by taking the max? What is in Wall's best interest? And how helpful can he be, via his personal relationships, to build a contender?

Nivek wrote:

Ruzious wrote:Does it make a difference as far as cap space next off-season? Or would the cap hold on him be pretty much equal to the max salary for him?

Wall's cap hold is the maximum salary for players with 0-6 years experience. The only way the Wizards save any cap space is if they sign him for less than the maximum.

Thanks Kev. I think I tell him our situation. We want to be able to sign a max player next offseason. If he signs for say 85% of the max, that gives us a better chance to build a contender with him. That way, he feels like he has a hand in forming the roster, and we save some money. Give him the option of waiting till the offseason to sign it.

Edit - Barely expounded on it better than I did. I didn't read your post until after posting. Great minds...