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I'm old enough that when I was a kid growing up in Chicago I would occasionally find arrowheads among the pebbles in the park, on the street, anywhere -- which was where I spent most of my time.

There is something wonderful about Summer League, and it's just like that. Like finding an arrowhead among the zillion pebbles.

Of course, the high draft picks playing in SL sort of come w/ an arrowhead label. But... some of them turn out to be pebbles all the same. And then there are the arrowheads among those expected to be pebbles... I can't seem to let this metaphor go, can I?

Among the rookies, Eric Murphy stood out. Among the guys on the longer, indirect path, I really liked Dwight Buycks. And I know there were lots of others I'll recollect later -- and some I'll have forgotten. Hence this topic?

Who have you seen that's been really good, or who was a surprise, or both.

Is there a good source for Summer league player stats?

Surprisingly Archie Goodwin has been solid with the exception of last night against PDX

verbal8 wrote:Is there a good source for Summer league player stats?

Real good question. I hate nba.com. Highlights I don't want to see automatically pop up. Stats are hard to find...

Here's their rookie ladder, with rankings based on SL play:

http://www.nba.com/rookie-ladder/?ls=nbahpsplit1

Kelly Olynyk is ranked first. I liked him most this draft. I'm getting old and bitter, but I truly believe I have a gift for this stuff. I should get paid to do this because I'm usually right.

Olynyk wrapped up an impressive run in Orlando with 12 points and seven boards in just 15 minutes of work. All told, he finished as the rookie leader in scoring (19.5 ppg) and rebounding (7.8 rpg) on 57.8 percent shooting. Now, we'll just have to see if anyone in Vegas can overtake him for the top rung. -- July 12

They have CJ McCollum second. He was the other guy many of us thought they could trade down for.

Still working on finding good stats, verbal.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

verbal8 wrote:Is there a good source for Summer league player stats?

Real good question. I hate nba.com. Highlights I don't want to see automatically pop up. Stats are hard to find...

Here's their rookie ladder, with rankings based on SL play:

http://www.nba.com/rookie-ladder/?ls=nbahpsplit1

Kelly Olynyk is ranked first. I liked him most this draft.

Olynyk wrapped up an impressive run in Orlando with 12 points and seven boards in just 15 minutes of work. All told, he finished as the rookie leader in scoring (19.5 ppg) and rebounding (7.8 rpg) on 57.8 percent shooting. Now, we'll just have to see if anyone in Vegas can overtake him for the top rung. -- July 12

They have CJ McCollum second. He was the other guy many of us thought they could trade down for.

Still working on finding good stats, verbal.

C.J. McCollum is shooting 36% from the floor and averaging 3.4 asts running the offense as a PG. He's got no business being 2nd on that list.

Agreed, Dat. That's why I want to find the stats. I do think McCollum is going to be a great pro, however.

(See my self-promoting edit to post above. Had to got there. I hope Otto turns out to be really good in a few years, but I'm thinking Olynyk would have been the far better choice.)

I also think Jack Cooley ranking fourth shows that sometimes stats really do hold true. He had more double doubles than anyone in the Big East. His rebounding was elite. I have a hard time seeing him NOT make an NBA roster. Yet, Draft Express and other draft sites didn't like Cooley.

Olynyk is clearly the best rookie I've seen thus far. I'd put Victor Oladipo #2, after that, it's anyone's guess. Maybe Cody Zeller but seeing Jack Cooley make him his bitch yesterday gives me pause.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Agreed, Dat. That's why I want to find the stats. I do think McCollum is going to be a great pro, however.

(See my self-promoting edit to post above. Had to got there. I hope Otto turns out to be really good in a few years, but I'm thinking Olynyk would have been the far better choice.)

What made me iffy on McCollum (and why I really cooled on him towards the end of the draft process) is the lack of consistency in his jumper. I don't think he's a knockdown shooter, but a streaky one instead and considering he may struggle to finish against bigs in the NBA, I've been wondering if he's going to be more of a volume scorer than an efficient scorer.

Yeah, I edited above to talk about Cooley.

Cooley is really good. I think the lack of success of Luke Harangody (and Cooley resembling Harangody in the minds of those who make these type comparisons) might be why he was not given more love pre-draft.

The guy who, when it's all said and done, IMO is going to be the biggest surprise is Ray McCallum, Jr. He's better than Burke. He's better than my pick, Nate Wolters. He's going to be a 10-yr pro, and a starter in this league before too long. McCallum is a player I might pick over McCollum, because he's a distributor as well as a solid defender who can score, without being a volume shooter. Wolters is going to be solid, but in this case I see where athleticism will allow McCallum to do a lot in the NBA.

Dat2U wrote:

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Agreed, Dat. That's why I want to find the stats. I do think McCollum is going to be a great pro, however.

(See my self-promoting edit to post above. Had to got there. I hope Otto turns out to be really good in a few years, but I'm thinking Olynyk would have been the far better choice.)

What made me iffy on McCollum (and why I really cooled on him towards the end of the draft process) is the lack of consistency in his jumper. I don't think he's a knockdown shooter, but a streaky one instead and considering he may struggle to finish against bigs in the NBA, I've been wondering if he's going to be more of a volume scorer than an efficient scorer.

I think he's going to be like Vinny The Microwave Johnson as a scorer. Streaky, but a good one. I think steals and rebounds should be good with McCollum. He reminds me of Walt Frazier, but he's more of a selfish player (in not a good way) based on the little I saw of CJM.

I think he will be a volume scorer, Dat. I suspect, like Russell Westbrook, in a couple years CJM will be a PG. He's got too much talent not to be pretty good IMO.

The Pistons got a good one with Kentavious Caldwell Pope. Before the draft I said he seems like a future all star player. Still feel that way.

OTOH, Portland's pick, Allen Crabbe is not having a strong summer league. Neither has their pick who I liked a lot last season, Will Barton. I'm disappointed in his turnovers and erratic shooting.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

Dat2U wrote:

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Agreed, Dat. That's why I want to find the stats. I do think McCollum is going to be a great pro, however.

(See my self-promoting edit to post above. Had to got there. I hope Otto turns out to be really good in a few years, but I'm thinking Olynyk would have been the far better choice.)

What made me iffy on McCollum (and why I really cooled on him towards the end of the draft process) is the lack of consistency in his jumper. I don't think he's a knockdown shooter, but a streaky one instead and considering he may struggle to finish against bigs in the NBA, I've been wondering if he's going to be more of a volume scorer than an efficient scorer.

I think he's going to be like Vinny The Microwave Johnson as a scorer. Streaky, but a good one. I think steals and rebounds should be good with McCollum. He reminds me of Walt Frazier, but he's more of a selfish player (in not a good way) based on the little I saw of CJM.

I think he will be a volume scorer, Dat. I suspect, like Russell Westbrook, in a couple years CJM will be a PG. He's got too much talent not to be pretty good IMO.

Watching him, I don't think he's got that Westbrook type of athleticism. He's more quick than explosive IMO. He certainly won't finish like him. I see a guy who's a notch below Kemba Walker in terms of athleticism and skill. Someone mentioned Jason Terry as a comparison on the general board. I could see him having that type of career.

It took a while but here are the Vegas SL stats.

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2013/st ... index.html

(I wish I knew how to do a screen capture or how to turn the graphics into a jpg. )

Looking at the stats, it seems like the more experienced players (non-rookies) are dominating the Vegas SL.

Henson's been the top player. He and Valenciunas are tearing it up.

Vesely has, by far, the highest FG % at .647. His blocks appear to be second (but I believe others not listed are higher).

Of the rookies in Vegas, I'd say Zeller has the best stats. Nah, make that Cooley. (He's two years older, however).

Dat2U wrote:Watching him, I don't think he's got that Westbrook type of athleticism. He's more quick than explosive IMO. He certainly won't finish like him. I see a guy who's a notch below Kemba Walker in terms of athleticism and skill. Someone mentioned Jason Terry as a comparison on the general board. I could see him having that type of career.

I can see that comparison. He's built to absorb a little more contact than Terry.

I made a bad comparison with Westbrook, because you're right about the difference in athleticism. I was just thinking guys who were strictly SGs in college who will transition to PG in pros.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:It took a while but here are the Vegas SL stats.

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2013/st ... index.html

(I wish I knew how to do a screen capture or how to turn the graphics into a jpg. )

Jonas has also been impressive. Damn I wish he had slipped to us...

Thanks!

A picture is worth a thousand words, GoG.

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2013/teams/wizards/

Wizard team stats, but I think the other thread is a better place for comments.

I hate the way NBA.com presents its stats. They're worthless for even an attempt at meaningful analysis.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

verbal8 wrote:Is there a good source for Summer league player stats?

Real good question. I hate nba.com. Highlights I don't want to see automatically pop up. Stats are hard to find...

Here's their rookie ladder, with rankings based on SL play:

http://www.nba.com/rookie-ladder/?ls=nbahpsplit1

Kelly Olynyk is ranked first. I liked him most this draft. I'm getting old and bitter, but I truly believe I have a gift for this stuff. I should get paid to do this because I'm usually right.

Olynyk wrapped up an impressive run in Orlando with 12 points and seven boards in just 15 minutes of work. All told, he finished as the rookie leader in scoring (19.5 ppg) and rebounding (7.8 rpg) on 57.8 percent shooting. Now, we'll just have to see if anyone in Vegas can overtake him for the top rung. -- July 12

They have CJ McCollum second. He was the other guy many of us thought they could trade down for.

Still working on finding good stats, verbal.

Here is the thing with being right on a BB.

Its easy to gloss over the ones you get wrong. If you were a real GM, those would show up on your face like a 3rd eye zit for all to see, every day for years. Just owning it wouldn't wash it away like people do here. You would have draft picks and million dollar contracts hanging around your neck.

Plus you can't list 20 players and then shout if one or two make it.

Also, its also a lot easier to do this when there isn't any money on the line. Add the stress, responsibility and accountability to the decision, and you might find you have some major shrinkage when it comes time to making the call.

Point is, it a lot different doing this for fun instead of a job on the biggest stage with the lights on.

hands, I think you're just like everyone else who hates on my picks.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1255857&start=1425

This is what I said June 25th, before the draft:

I think drafting Porter is NOT the best move.

Draft Olynyk and Karasev instead.

Karasev will exceed all expectations. He might be better than Porter. Karasev won't disrupt continuity by running off Webster or contract year Ariza, because Karasev won't start immediately.

Olynyk is by FAR the most efficient post scorer. He will be a playoff scorer who brings Brad Miller/Luis Scola skill. Forget about athleticism--dude puts the ball in the basket!

In round 2 pick Wolters, Canaan, McCallum (I have a very good feeling that he's massively underrated, like Karasev) or Siva.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1255857&start=1470

Ruzious, Fazekas is a very good player who got caught in a numbers game. I think you or others mention him as a bust to say Olynyk will similarly not make it. I still like Fazekas.

I think Olynyk is a better player and is even a good pick at 3. He will get a guaranteed roster spot and it all depends on opportunity from there.

hands, it shouldn't anger me at all what you posted. I understand small minds and hate because I guess I have my ways on some things, too. Frankly, I don't care what you think because I know I have a gift for this. Find one other person who said draft him third.