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Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2)

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IS IT TIME TO FIRE ERNIE GRUNFELD?

1) Yes, I believe it is time for EG to go now.
57
64%
2) Ted should let him go at the end of the season.
21
24%
3) No, Ted needs to give him more time..(DESPITE THE FACT ERNIE HAS BEEN GM SINCE 2003 AND WASHINGTON HAS THE THIRD WORST RECORD IN THE LEAGUE IN THAT SPAN)
11
12%
 
Total votes: 89

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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#561 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Apr 7, 2014 5:02 pm

Kanyewest wrote:^^ At least we're not Detroit (or Cleveland!)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM[/youtube]

Although I guess Detroit won a championship 10 years ago...


Or Dayton...

:(

Now I'm depressed.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#562 » by hands11 » Mon Apr 7, 2014 10:21 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
fishercob wrote:
DCZards wrote:
PIF, on what basis have you determined that MKG has been a better player than Beal?


Presumably, win shares per 48 minutes.


I would still want Beal next to Wall to stretch the court. But I do see your point.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =ws_per_48


Beal 2300 mins
MKG 1400 mins

That really jumped out at me.

I think MKG will be an interesting player in time. Man, both these two are still only 20 years old. For some reason that jumped out at me more when I see that next to MKG name but we have to remember, that is Beal as well. And Drummond and Davis and Harkless.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#563 » by hands11 » Mon Apr 7, 2014 10:27 pm

closg00 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
hands11 wrote:
That original post implied CHA have done a better job then the Wizards. I don't think the facts support that.


That was my point... they are close (subjective) and both have poorly ranked FOs - this shouldn't startle anyone.


No hands, the point re: CHA was that they (and other teams), took less time to return to relevancy than the Wizards, that is a fact.


No Clogs. Its isn't and I explained why. Now if you want to ignore the facts and use your over simplified single data point, well then go ahead. But it hardly paints an accurate picture because it ignores all the most relevant information.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#564 » by dckingsfan » Mon Apr 7, 2014 11:50 pm

hands11 wrote:
closg00 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
That was my point... they are close (subjective) and both have poorly ranked FOs - this shouldn't startle anyone.


No hands, the point re: CHA was that they (and other teams), took less time to return to relevancy than the Wizards, that is a fact.


No Clogs. Its isn't and I explained why. Now if you want to ignore the facts and use your over simplified single data point, well then go ahead. But it hardly paints an accurate picture because it ignores all the most relevant information.


So basically you are arguing that the Wizard FO should be ranked 24th vs. 26th... sigh
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#565 » by Benjammin » Tue Apr 8, 2014 12:22 am

24th with a ten year run.

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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#566 » by hands11 » Tue Apr 8, 2014 1:56 am

dckingsfan wrote:
hands11 wrote:
closg00 wrote:
No hands, the point re: CHA was that they (and other teams), took less time to return to relevancy than the Wizards, that is a fact.


No Clogs. Its isn't and I explained why. Now if you want to ignore the facts and use your over simplified single data point, well then go ahead. But it hardly paints an accurate picture because it ignores all the most relevant information.


So basically you are arguing that the Wizard FO should be ranked 24th vs. 26th... sigh


I never mentioned anything about where they should be ranked. That wasn't the topic.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#567 » by closg00 » Tue Apr 8, 2014 2:14 am

hands11 wrote:
closg00 wrote:So the Cats took less time to return to the playoffs then the Wizards.

My fall-back position now is hoping for the Wizards to be decisively swept in the 1st. round, that is my only hope for change in the FO and coaching.


This is not a position on EG but what happened in CHA needs to be put in context.

They were a team that popped into the playoffs one year ( their only year ) then out for 3 while they load up. They also didn't have Gil's contract to dump and gungate. And no, Gils contract was not on EG, it was on Abe. And if not for lucking into Al Jefferson (well done by MJ), they would still be out of the playoffs. They picked MKG over Beal. They picked Bismack Biyombo 7th. But at least they were smart enough to pick Kemba Walker over Jimmer. And picked Zeller last year was a good pick.

I think they are an interesting team that can get better but they aren't out of the woods yet.

As for what happens to the Wizards in the playoffs. I suspect that will have more to do with determining what happens to Randy then it does EG. I suspect Ted already has a good sense of what he wants to do with EG. He has either lined up people he thinks are better, or he is going to do something like extend him 2 yrs or move him up and bring in a GM under him depending in part of what EG wants to do.


Here is the original post folks.
Now Hands, please explain to the board again why it is not a fact that other NBA teams returned to relevancy in a shorter amount of time than the Wizards. We don't even have to use CHA. PHX turned their record around in a shorter amount of time than the Wizards. FACT.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#568 » by Youheardme90 » Wed Apr 9, 2014 1:20 am

No BS, No games, No Shortcuts, do you think you could do or could`ve done a better job than Ernie Grunfeld has done up to this point in his tenure ?
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#569 » by montestewart » Wed Apr 9, 2014 1:57 am

Youheardme90 wrote:No BS, No games, No Shortcuts, do you think you could do or could`ve done a better job than Ernie Grunfeld has done up to this point in his tenure ?

yes
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#570 » by queridiculo » Wed Apr 9, 2014 2:30 am

Youheardme90 wrote:No BS, No games, No Shortcuts, do you think you could do or could`ve done a better job than Ernie Grunfeld has done up to this point in his tenure ?


Yes.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#571 » by hands11 » Wed Apr 9, 2014 7:24 am

closg00 wrote:
hands11 wrote:
closg00 wrote:So the Cats took less time to return to the playoffs then the Wizards.

My fall-back position now is hoping for the Wizards to be decisively swept in the 1st. round, that is my only hope for change in the FO and coaching.


This is not a position on EG but what happened in CHA needs to be put in context.

They were a team that popped into the playoffs one year ( their only year ) then out for 3 while they load up. They also didn't have Gil's contract to dump and gungate. And no, Gils contract was not on EG, it was on Abe. And if not for lucking into Al Jefferson (well done by MJ), they would still be out of the playoffs. They picked MKG over Beal. They picked Bismack Biyombo 7th. But at least they were smart enough to pick Kemba Walker over Jimmer. And picked Zeller last year was a good pick.

I think they are an interesting team that can get better but they aren't out of the woods yet.

As for what happens to the Wizards in the playoffs. I suspect that will have more to do with determining what happens to Randy then it does EG. I suspect Ted already has a good sense of what he wants to do with EG. He has either lined up people he thinks are better, or he is going to do something like extend him 2 yrs or move him up and bring in a GM under him depending in part of what EG wants to do.


Here is the original post folks.
Now Hands, please explain to the board again why it is not a fact that other NBA teams returned to relevancy in a shorter amount of time than the Wizards. We don't even have to use CHA. PHX turned their record around in a shorter amount of time than the Wizards. FACT.


How about you go back and read where I already explained it. CHA was never relevant. They made the playoffs one year. I would say their rebuild took 10 years but it wasn't a rebuild, it was a build. It has taken them 10 years. 9 lottery picks since 2004. It has taken the Wizard 4 years to rebuild.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#572 » by dckingsfan » Wed Apr 9, 2014 1:14 pm

Youheardme90 wrote:No BS, No games, No Shortcuts, do you think you could do or could`ve done a better job than Ernie Grunfeld has done up to this point in his tenure ?


I think that a random generator would have done better in the drafts than EG. That is the truly sad part.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#573 » by Zonkerbl » Wed Apr 9, 2014 1:24 pm

Youheardme90 wrote:No BS, No games, No Shortcuts, do you think you could do or could`ve done a better job than Ernie Grunfeld has done up to this point in his tenure ?


OH MY GOD.

Yes, of course!!! I would've handled gungate very, very differently. I would have handled Blatche very differently. I would have handled the Thibs hire very, very differently (probably just would have fired EJ for not teaching defense. Screw Gilbert Arenas' endorsement - play some defense and I won't fire your coach. How about that?). I would have approached our draft from a much more analytic driven perspective and probably would have ended up with at least one of CCJ's second round standouts (Faried, Crowder, whatsisname the PF for the Spurs with no knees), and probably gotten somebody better than Vesely (although probably a redundant guard, but oh well). I would have handled the Jordan Crawford situation differently. I would have approached the backup PG question analytically, and therefore would never have signed Maynor.

I certainly wouldn't have traded away the #5 pick for two one year rentals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus Christ. How many screwups is this solo keystone cop going to get away with? Most of his screwups have nothing to do with his trades or the draft but his inability to manage people properly. That's INEXCUSABLE for someone earning as much as he is.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#574 » by DCZards » Wed Apr 9, 2014 1:49 pm

It's fascinating to read how some posters think they would have made ALL of the right draft and personnel decisions if they had only been GM instead of EG.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#575 » by tontoz » Wed Apr 9, 2014 1:53 pm

DCZards wrote:It's fascinating to read how some posters think they would have made ALL of the right draft and personnel decisions if they had only been GM instead of EG.



Pathetic strawman.

I don't see people claiming they would have made ALL the right moves. Please point those people out to me.

What i do see is people pointing out the moves that they said we should do at that time, without the benefit of hindsight.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#576 » by Nivek » Wed Apr 9, 2014 1:54 pm

DCZards wrote:It's fascinating to read how some posters think they would have made ALL of the right draft and personnel decisions if they had only been GM instead of EG.


In general I agree, BUT in this case there have been folks saying at the time that Grunfeld was making mistakes. Many identified at the time moves that would have been preferable. The only "looking back" required is simply to remind ourselves what folks said at the time.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#577 » by Dat2U » Wed Apr 9, 2014 3:00 pm

DCZards wrote:It's fascinating to read how some posters think they would have made ALL of the right draft and personnel decisions if they had only been GM instead of EG.


Image

Hell, I think this guy could have done better than Ernie.

You act like Ernie actually did something credible. I'm of the belief that frankly, it would hard to do worse than what Ernie did considering ALL the assets we had. It would be really really hard for someone to take five years of high picks including a #1, assets & cap space and turn that into a team led by that same #1 pick, 2 FAs looking for their final payday (Gortat, Ariza) and some guys we picked up off the street (Webster, Gooden).
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#578 » by closg00 » Wed Apr 9, 2014 3:00 pm

tontoz wrote:
DCZards wrote:It's fascinating to read how some posters think they would have made ALL of the right draft and personnel decisions if they had only been GM instead of EG.



Pathetic strawman.

I don't see people claiming they would have made ALL the right moves. Please point those people out to me.

What i do see is people pointing out the moves that they said we should do at that time, without the benefit of hindsight.

Precisely, most here waved the red flag on drafting Jan Vesely BEFORE that draft. There were several people who wanted to draft Parsons in the 2nd round I don't think anyone here would have rushed to get Maynor, much-less give HIM a 2nd year option.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#579 » by montestewart » Wed Apr 9, 2014 3:14 pm

What's really fascinating is watching the downward trajectory of EG defenses, from "He's good," to "He's above average," to "He's not below average," to "He's not the worst in the league," and finally settling for: "He's better than Joe Schmo off the street," itself a debatable contention.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2) 

Post#580 » by Dat2U » Wed Apr 9, 2014 3:29 pm

montestewart wrote:What's really fascinating is watching the downward trajectory of EG defenses, from "He's good," to "He's above average," to "He's not below average," to "He's not the worst in the league," and finally settling for: "He's better than Joe Schmo off the street," itself a debatable contention.


The last time I called Ernie an average GM was the day before he traded the 5th pick for Foye & Miller. No average GM does that. Ernie immediately went from average to MY GOD WHAT THE F*CK IS HE ON!!! basically overnight.

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