RealGM

Here's where we left off in the last thread:

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1305429&start=1960

Here's how you ended (more or less -- and I hope clear):

LyricalRico wrote:
Found this little tidbit from Larry Coon:

Larry Coon: To keep Parsons' rights & still sign Bosh to max, they have to dump another $3,732,744 in guaranteed salary. That's Jones AND Motiejunas. Twitter @LarryCoon


Larry Coon: So to get Bosh at max AND keep Parsons, Daryl Morey just needs to dump Asik, Lin, Jones AND Motiejunas with no salary coming he other way, Twitter @LarryCoon

closg00 wrote:
Either Jones or Donatas would fit under our TPE. I'd love to pickup Terrance Jones for a couple future seconds.


Man it would be a steal to get Jones, he'd be great with Wall & Beal.

Now this where I have to reflexively bash EG EG has never shown that he is the kind of GM to have the imagination to try these kind of moves to get a Terrance Jones. EG looks around at the Maynor's, the Josh Howards etc. for "Steals" This is what he has consistently done as GM sadly

Lyrical Rico ended with:
Haha, noted.

Actually, if somebody else is able to get Terrence Jones for a 2nd, and then Ernie turns around and signs a guy like Humphries for the full MLE - I'll reflexively bash him myself! LOL

To which my reply is... I'll believe that when I see it, amigo!!

I think Morey is too smart to dump Terrance Jones. I have him undervalued by about $10mm on his current contract and the kid is only 22. I would think Daryl Morey would prefer to keep Terrance Jones and some flexibility under the tax than signing both Parsons and Bosh while blocking any other future moves.

I haven't taken a deep dive into the salary situation in Houston but I believe Larry Coon.

If we had a GM with a brain and an owner willing to pay the lux tax, would there be any way to get in on any of the Rox or Cavs potential salary dumps?

Deadline trade...Gortat for Milsapp.

Yes I'm already trying to think of ways to get rid of that hideous contract.

awolfinwater wrote:I think Morey is too smart to dump Terrance Jones. I have him undervalued by about $10mm on his current contract and the kid is only 22. I would think Daryl Morey would prefer to keep Terrance Jones and some flexibility under the tax than signing both Parsons and Bosh while blocking any other future moves.

I haven't taken a deep dive into the salary situation in Houston but I believe Larry Coon.

Agreed Jones has the potential to blow up......he had some Barkley like performances last year at a very young age.

TGW wrote:Deadline trade...Gortat for Milsapp.

Yes I'm already trying to think of ways to get rid of that hideous contract.

Like the nuggets did with Nene?

Ummm on Terrence Jones, did anyone watch Jones "try" to defend PFs this year? It wasn't a pretty sight and Houston had to bench him during the playoffs.

Dat2U wrote:Ummm on Terrence Jones, did anyone watch Jones "try" to defend PFs this year? It wasn't a pretty sight and Houston had to bench him during the playoffs.

You got me. Didn't watch much of Houston this year to make a solid assessment. Was going by the stats but those offensive numbers are DAZZLING.

If you can get a young, skilled power forward on THIS roster, one with no good young bigs, for basically nothing, you have to do it. His defense against Aldridge wasn't good, true, but those numbers plus skill are something we do not have anything close to.

Which means EG will never do anything like it.

Dat2U wrote:Ummm on Terrence Jones, did anyone watch Jones "try" to defend PFs this year? It wasn't a pretty sight and Houston had to bench him during the playoffs.

Not buying it.... Did you watch Jones shoot better than 58% on 2 point attempts? Did you watch him rebound at a high rate? Did you watch Jones foul very little, turn it over very little, and so forth?

It's a straight out methodological error to assess players based on what they *can't* do, especially when what you mean is "can't" based on what you saw (your "eye test") in limited exposure -- Jones played 2100 minutes; how many of them did you see?

This is how to under-estimate someone like Jones compared to a guy like Taj Gibson (whom you *do* like) even though Gibson fouls more, turns it over almost twice as often, steals less, assists less, and takes 3.5 more shots every 40 minutes to deliver exactly 1 more point for his team, because he shoots 48% instead of 58% like Jones.

It's academic, since Morey isn't giving us or anyone Terrence Jones -- I'm sure we could have Motiejunas all day long and twice on Sundays, however!

payitforward wrote:

Dat2U wrote:Ummm on Terrence Jones, did anyone watch Jones "try" to defend PFs this year? It wasn't a pretty sight and Houston had to bench him during the playoffs.

Not buying it.... Did you watch Jones shoot better than 58% on 2 point attempts? Did you watch him rebound at a high rate? Did you watch Jones foul very little, turn it over very little, and so forth?

It's a straight out methodological error to assess players based on what they *can't* do, especially when what you mean is "can't" based on what you saw (your "eye test") in limited exposure -- Jones played 2100 minutes; how many of them did you see?

This is how to under-estimate someone like Jones compared to a guy like Taj Gibson (whom you *do* like) even though Gibson fouls more, turns it over almost twice as often, steals less, assists less, and takes 3.5 more shots every 40 minutes to deliver exactly 1 more point for his team, because he shoots 48% instead of 58% like Jones.

It's academic, since Morey isn't giving us or anyone Terrence Jones -- I'm sure we could have Motiejunas all day long and twice on Sundays, however!

And I believe Motiejunas would prosper as a Wizard, particularly playing with Gortat and Nene. Motiejunas has a lot of skill but he's just very weak. He's nowhere near as talented as Terrance Jones, but I'd be happy with Motiejunas.

In many ways Motiejunas and Otto Porter have the same issues. Both need playing time and patience.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

payitforward wrote:

Dat2U wrote:Ummm on Terrence Jones, did anyone watch Jones "try" to defend PFs this year? It wasn't a pretty sight and Houston had to bench him during the playoffs.

Not buying it.... Did you watch Jones shoot better than 58% on 2 point attempts? Did you watch him rebound at a high rate? Did you watch Jones foul very little, turn it over very little, and so forth?

It's a straight out methodological error to assess players based on what they *can't* do, especially when what you mean is "can't" based on what you saw (your "eye test") in limited exposure -- Jones played 2100 minutes; how many of them did you see?

This is how to under-estimate someone like Jones compared to a guy like Taj Gibson (whom you *do* like) even though Gibson fouls more, turns it over almost twice as often, steals less, assists less, and takes 3.5 more shots every 40 minutes to deliver exactly 1 more point for his team, because he shoots 48% instead of 58% like Jones.

It's academic, since Morey isn't giving us or anyone Terrence Jones -- I'm sure we could have Motiejunas all day long and twice on Sundays, however!

And I believe Motiejunas would prosper as a Wizard, particularly playing with Gortat and Nene. Motiejunas has a lot of skill but he's just very weak. He's nowhere near as talented as Terrance Jones, but I'd be happy with Motiejunas.

In many ways Motiejunas and Otto Porter have the same issues. Both need playing time and patience.

I really like Motiejunas... I think he is ready to play now - not so much last year. I am surprised that his 3pt % is as low as it is, I think he has a really nice stroke. If they want to dump him, we should take him. And the salary is reasonable - 1,483,920.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

payitforward wrote:

Dat2U wrote:Ummm on Terrence Jones, did anyone watch Jones "try" to defend PFs this year? It wasn't a pretty sight and Houston had to bench him during the playoffs.

Not buying it.... Did you watch Jones shoot better than 58% on 2 point attempts? Did you watch him rebound at a high rate? Did you watch Jones foul very little, turn it over very little, and so forth?

It's a straight out methodological error to assess players based on what they *can't* do, especially when what you mean is "can't" based on what you saw (your "eye test") in limited exposure -- Jones played 2100 minutes; how many of them did you see?

This is how to under-estimate someone like Jones compared to a guy like Taj Gibson (whom you *do* like) even though Gibson fouls more, turns it over almost twice as often, steals less, assists less, and takes 3.5 more shots every 40 minutes to deliver exactly 1 more point for his team, because he shoots 48% instead of 58% like Jones.

It's academic, since Morey isn't giving us or anyone Terrence Jones -- I'm sure we could have Motiejunas all day long and twice on Sundays, however!

And I believe Motiejunas would prosper as a Wizard, particularly playing with Gortat and Nene. Motiejunas has a lot of skill but he's just very weak. He's nowhere near as talented as Terrance Jones, but I'd be happy with Motiejunas.

In many ways Motiejunas and Otto Porter have the same issues. Both need playing time and patience.

Meh. Not buying that either. Motiejunas is the same age as Drew Gordon. Why wouldn't I want Gordon as much or more than DM?

I thought he was quite a good prospect coming into the league, but he's shown nothing. I can't see anything he does well. A Center who shoots 44% and gets less than 10 boards every 40 minutes -- while collecting 5.5 fouls in that time? No thanks.

Edit: don't get me wrong: Motiejunas isn't any good, but he's still a lot better than Kevin Seraphin! At 1/3 the price. Then again, so was Jan Vesely.

payitforward wrote:

Dat2U wrote:Ummm on Terrence Jones, did anyone watch Jones "try" to defend PFs this year? It wasn't a pretty sight and Houston had to bench him during the playoffs.

Not buying it.... Did you watch Jones shoot better than 58% on 2 point attempts? Did you watch him rebound at a high rate? Did you watch Jones foul very little, turn it over very little, and so forth?

It's a straight out methodological error to assess players based on what they *can't* do, especially when what you mean is "can't" based on what you saw (your "eye test") in limited exposure -- Jones played 2100 minutes; how many of them did you see?

This is how to under-estimate someone like Jones compared to a guy like Taj Gibson (whom you *do* like) even though Gibson fouls more, turns it over almost twice as often, steals less, assists less, and takes 3.5 more shots every 40 minutes to deliver exactly 1 more point for his team, because he shoots 48% instead of 58% like Jones.

It's academic, since Morey isn't giving us or anyone Terrence Jones -- I'm sure we could have Motiejunas all day long and twice on Sundays, however!

I can sympathize with Dat. I don't agree with his dislike of Jones and would love to get the guy for pennies on the dollar....but there's one thing you have to understand about Dat - he has, what the medical profession calls, "Antawn-itis". Any time he sees a power forward who can put up points and rebounds but can't defend a stationary rock, Dat gets the Antawn-itis. It's a crippling disease with no known cure.

Would love to grab Jones on the cheap. But Im sure every other team in the league would as well. And Morey is too smart to just give him away.

It seems like a lot of us are keying in on the rockets trying to make cap room but I think we need to look at it from a different side of things. I think we need to help N.O. clear the space to take Asik. I posted this in another thread.

gambitx777 wrote:So it looks like the Omar Asik trade that every thought was done is in danger of not going through because the projected cap is lower that previously thought. So now, N.O. needs to trade out rivers, Babbit, Ajinca and Whithey In order to have enough cap room to absorb Asik.

So why don't we run in there and grab one of Ajenca and Withey, and one of Rivers and Babbit. We have the trade exceptions to do so. I would love to grab Withey and Rivers. Both had decent years last year and both fill needs. Rivers got better last year and had better stats with less minutes. Ajenca is turning in to a decent back up center as well, babbit....meh. But, any way, I think this would be an amazing move, and since they are just trying to dump these guys, it would probably coast us nothing.

I think this would be a wonderful idea, fills needs and get's us some young talent that still has room to get better.

payitforward wrote:

Dat2U wrote:Ummm on Terrence Jones, did anyone watch Jones "try" to defend PFs this year? It wasn't a pretty sight and Houston had to bench him during the playoffs.

Not buying it.... Did you watch Jones shoot better than 58% on 2 point attempts? Did you watch him rebound at a high rate? Did you watch Jones foul very little, turn it over very little, and so forth?

It's a straight out methodological error to assess players based on what they *can't* do, especially when what you mean is "can't" based on what you saw (your "eye test") in limited exposure -- Jones played 2100 minutes; how many of them did you see?

This is how to under-estimate someone like Jones compared to a guy like Taj Gibson (whom you *do* like) even though Gibson fouls more, turns it over almost twice as often, steals less, assists less, and takes 3.5 more shots every 40 minutes to deliver exactly 1 more point for his team, because he shoots 48% instead of 58% like Jones.

It's academic, since Morey isn't giving us or anyone Terrence Jones -- I'm sure we could have Motiejunas all day long and twice on Sundays, however!

Eye test has nothing to do with it! Jones got torched so badly Houston had to bench him! They couldn't hide him, even playing with Dwight Howard, at the most important time of the year!

Meanwhile in the playoffs Taj Gibson was a man among boys and was Chicago's best player in the Wizards series.

payitforward wrote:

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

payitforward wrote:Not buying it.... Did you watch Jones shoot better than 58% on 2 point attempts? Did you watch him rebound at a high rate? Did you watch Jones foul very little, turn it over very little, and so forth?

It's a straight out methodological error to assess players based on what they *can't* do, especially when what you mean is "can't" based on what you saw (your "eye test") in limited exposure -- Jones played 2100 minutes; how many of them did you see?

This is how to under-estimate someone like Jones compared to a guy like Taj Gibson (whom you *do* like) even though Gibson fouls more, turns it over almost twice as often, steals less, assists less, and takes 3.5 more shots every 40 minutes to deliver exactly 1 more point for his team, because he shoots 48% instead of 58% like Jones.

It's academic, since Morey isn't giving us or anyone Terrence Jones -- I'm sure we could have Motiejunas all day long and twice on Sundays, however!

And I believe Motiejunas would prosper as a Wizard, particularly playing with Gortat and Nene. Motiejunas has a lot of skill but he's just very weak. He's nowhere near as talented as Terrance Jones, but I'd be happy with Motiejunas.

In many ways Motiejunas and Otto Porter have the same issues. Both need playing time and patience.

Meh. Not buying that either. Motiejunas is the same age as Drew Gordon. Why wouldn't I want Gordon as much or more than DM?

I thought he was quite a good prospect coming into the league, but he's shown nothing. I can't see anything he does well. A Center who shoots 44% and gets less than 10 boards every 40 minutes -- while collecting 5.5 fouls in that time? No thanks.

Edit: don't get me wrong: Motiejunas isn't any good, but he's still a lot better than Kevin Seraphin! At 1/3 the price. Then again, so was Jan Vesely.

I wouldn't mind Motiejunas for a TPE, but I would hesitate to even give up a 2nd to acquire him. I did like him as a prospect, but even more than his poor 3 point shooting, his FT shooting in the 60s concerns me. I don't think even a "semi-stretch" big like David Lee would be a realistic expectation. His 2 point shot selection is good, which makes him better than Seraphin, but every thing else seems about the same.

From another thread:

gambitx777 wrote:So it looks like the Omar Asik trade that every thought was done is in danger of not going through because the projected cap is lower that previously thought. So now, N.O. needs to trade out rivers, Babbit, Ajinca and Whithey In order to have enough cap room to absorb Asik.

So why don't we run in there and grab one of Ajenca and Withey, and one of Rivers and Babbit.

Rivers' salary is larger than either of our TPE's, and I wouldn't re-arrange anything to get him. I'm ambivalent about Ajinca/Babbitt. But I'd give up a future 2nd for Withey, definitely.