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Hmmm, not sure where it is going to land us...

Not as many as the loss of Trevor Ariza.

To early to tell. Need to watch for preseason to near its end and see if they made any more moves.

To answer your question, you need to tell me how much wins Beal gets us on average.

Beal is a "Building Block of Comfort" for JW, but we'll adjust....it could get slow and ugly though.

queridiculo wrote:Not as many as the loss of Trevor Ariza.

I really, really wish we could have convinced Ariza to stay and play on a 2-year contract, overpaying him if necessary. I don't like how this team is constructed, and it's even worse now without Beal. Basically, the only players on the roster who have the type of game that meshes well with Wall are Beal and Gortat. And we just lost Beal.

Going back in the time machine, the thing to do was to draft Nerlens Noel last year. Then convince Ariza to resign this year. Sign Pierce with the MLE. And sign Booker to a 2-year contract if possible, or Blair to the 2-year deal using the Maynor TPE. The team would have looked like this:

PG Wall/Miller
SG Beal/Webster
SF Ariza/Pierce/Rice
PF Nene/Gooden/Blair/Pierce
C Gortat/Nene/Noel

Put Beal, Ariza, Pierce and Gortat (or Nene) around Wall in crunch time and things would go smoothly. Meanwhile Noel and Rice develop on the bench and become good, cheap depth in 2016 when we dump all the big contracts and go after Durant.

closg00 wrote:Beal is a "Building Block of Comfort" for JW, but we'll adjust....it could get slow and ugly though.

Ugly is how we would win.

Lots of half court and posting and fouls.

Now if Wall can bust into a grove, that might change that. Plus we should be seeing more Wall and Gortat.

Don't see a loss of games because the schedule isn't that brutal for oct/nov/early dec.

nate33 wrote:

queridiculo wrote:Not as many as the loss of Trevor Ariza.

I really, really wish we could have convinced Ariza to stay and play on a 2-year contract, overpaying him if necessary. I don't like how this team is constructed, and it's even worse now without Beal. Basically, the only players on the roster who have the type of game that meshes well with Wall are Beal and Gortat. And we just lost Beal.

Going back in the time machine, the thing to do was to draft Nerlens Noel last year. Then convince Ariza to resign this year. Sign Pierce with the MLE. And sign Booker to a 2-year contract if possible, or Blair to the 2-year deal using the Maynor TPE. The team would have looked like this:

PG Wall/Miller
SG Beal/Webster
SF Ariza/Pierce/Rice
PF Nene/Gooden/Blair/Pierce
C Gortat/Nene/Noel

Put Beal, Ariza, Pierce and Gortat (or Nene) around Wall in crunch time and things would go smoothly. Meanwhile Noel and Rice develop on the bench and become good, cheap depth in 2016 when we dump all the big contracts and go after Durant.

Go back even further.
We shouldve drafted Drummond and not overpayed Gortat. Would've been far more attractive to Durant in 2015.

I truly dont get all the Ariza hype. I was high on him last year before anyone, even when he sucked until the last preseason game but people on this board are overrating him and even moreso underrating what we currently have. 1st off, I have seen nothing in PP's game to' be worried about like so many on here are. He's hitting a few shots, getting to the line, he's rebounding and assisting well. I just dont get why people are so concerened. Furthermore, Porter has way more upside then Ariza and will play more with TA gone. Sorry, but Im taking the combo of Pierce & Porter over Ariza 10 times out of 10.

Also, stop going crazy in a negative light over Preseason. Again, 90% of this board hated Ariza until the final preseason game. He missed every shot until then. Dont make the same mistake with Pierce

I've been working on my individual projections, and while Beal doesn't project as being anything great this season, his loss will cost a few wins because there's not much behind him at SG.

Temple is bad -- many of the players who had a season like he did last season didn't get another one.

Rice and Porter don't project as being as productive as Beal, even if I ignore last season and treat them as rookies.

Pierce can't play SG at this point in his career.

Webster will be out at least as long as Beal will be.

Maybe Grunfeld can swap next year's 1st for a veteran.

jangles86 wrote:

nate33 wrote:

queridiculo wrote:Not as many as the loss of Trevor Ariza.

I really, really wish we could have convinced Ariza to stay and play on a 2-year contract, overpaying him if necessary. I don't like how this team is constructed, and it's even worse now without Beal. Basically, the only players on the roster who have the type of game that meshes well with Wall are Beal and Gortat. And we just lost Beal.

Going back in the time machine, the thing to do was to draft Nerlens Noel last year. Then convince Ariza to resign this year. Sign Pierce with the MLE. And sign Booker to a 2-year contract if possible, or Blair to the 2-year deal using the Maynor TPE. The team would have looked like this:

PG Wall/Miller
SG Beal/Webster
SF Ariza/Pierce/Rice
PF Nene/Gooden/Blair/Pierce
C Gortat/Nene/Noel

Put Beal, Ariza, Pierce and Gortat (or Nene) around Wall in crunch time and things would go smoothly. Meanwhile Noel and Rice develop on the bench and become good, cheap depth in 2016 when we dump all the big contracts and go after Durant.

Go back even further.
We shouldve drafted Drummond and not overpayed Gortat. Would've been far more attractive to Durant in 2015.

says who? Beal was a star in the playoffs. Everyone clowns on here when Beal sucks but if you go to the Pistons board its the same thing about Drummond. One minute he's the best center prospect in ages, the next he has 0 offensive ability and cant stop anyone on defense. Even as great as he played the other night, Gortat & Seraphin scored at will

Nivek wrote:I've been working on my individual projections, and while Beal doesn't project as being anything great this season, his loss will cost a few wins because there's not much behind him at SG.

Temple is bad -- many of the players who had a season like he did last season didn't get another one.

Rice and Porter don't project as being as productive as Beal, even if I ignore last season and treat them as rookies.

Pierce can't play SG at this point in his career.

Webster will be out at least as long as Beal will be.

Maybe Grunfeld can swap next year's 1st for a veteran.

Take it back Kevin. Un-say it.

Don't think the fabulous EG isn't thinking it

jangles86 wrote:

nate33 wrote:

queridiculo wrote:Not as many as the loss of Trevor Ariza.

I really, really wish we could have convinced Ariza to stay and play on a 2-year contract, overpaying him if necessary. I don't like how this team is constructed, and it's even worse now without Beal. Basically, the only players on the roster who have the type of game that meshes well with Wall are Beal and Gortat. And we just lost Beal.

Going back in the time machine, the thing to do was to draft Nerlens Noel last year. Then convince Ariza to resign this year. Sign Pierce with the MLE. And sign Booker to a 2-year contract if possible, or Blair to the 2-year deal using the Maynor TPE. The team would have looked like this:

PG Wall/Miller
SG Beal/Webster
SF Ariza/Pierce/Rice
PF Nene/Gooden/Blair/Pierce
C Gortat/Nene/Noel

Put Beal, Ariza, Pierce and Gortat (or Nene) around Wall in crunch time and things would go smoothly. Meanwhile Noel and Rice develop on the bench and become good, cheap depth in 2016 when we dump all the big contracts and go after Durant.

Go back even further.
We shouldve drafted Drummond and not overpayed Gortat. Would've been far more attractive to Durant in 2015.

I don't blame management for that one. First of all, I'm not so sure we would have had the same success with Drummond last year as we did with Gortat and Beal. I expect that playoff success to be meaningful for the team's development going forward. Also, very few people honestly thought Drummond should go 3rd in that draft. I don't think it's fair to bust management for a decision that almost nobody else would have made if in that position. There were a lot of doubts about Drummond at that time.

But the Porter/Noel choice seemed pretty obvious to me. I'm still really upset we didn't take Noel. And since Porter gave us absolutely nothing last year, the fact that Noel was injured in his rookie season would have had no consequences.

nate33 wrote:

jangles86 wrote:

nate33 wrote:I really, really wish we could have convinced Ariza to stay and play on a 2-year contract, overpaying him if necessary. I don't like how this team is constructed, and it's even worse now without Beal. Basically, the only players on the roster who have the type of game that meshes well with Wall are Beal and Gortat. And we just lost Beal.

Going back in the time machine, the thing to do was to draft Nerlens Noel last year. Then convince Ariza to resign this year. Sign Pierce with the MLE. And sign Booker to a 2-year contract if possible, or Blair to the 2-year deal using the Maynor TPE. The team would have looked like this:

PG Wall/Miller
SG Beal/Webster
SF Ariza/Pierce/Rice
PF Nene/Gooden/Blair/Pierce
C Gortat/Nene/Noel

Put Beal, Ariza, Pierce and Gortat (or Nene) around Wall in crunch time and things would go smoothly. Meanwhile Noel and Rice develop on the bench and become good, cheap depth in 2016 when we dump all the big contracts and go after Durant.

Go back even further.
We shouldve drafted Drummond and not overpayed Gortat. Would've been far more attractive to Durant in 2015.

I don't blame management for that one. First of all, I'm not so sure we would have had the same success with Drummond last year as we did with Gortat and Beal. I expect that playoff success to be meaningful for the team's development going forward. Also, very few people honestly thought Drummond should go 3rd in that draft. I don't think it's fair to bust management for a decision that almost nobody else would have made if in that position. There were a lot of doubts about Drummond at that time.

But the Porter/Noel choice seemed pretty obvious to me. I'm still really upset we didn't take Noel. And since Porter gave us absolutely nothing last year, the fact that Noel was injured in his rookie season would have had no consequences.

why are you sold on Noel being so much better than Porter or Noel being a better deal than Porter-Gortat as you say? Ive seen nothing from Noel yet to make me say we missed on him so much. If there was one game to win tomorrow, I would take Porter in that game over Noel. As for going forward, again I have seen nothing to say that Noel's upside is so much greater

dlts20 wrote:I truly dont get all the Ariza hype. I was high on him last year before anyone, even when he sucked until the last preseason game but people on this board are overrating him and even moreso underrating what we currently have. 1st off, I have seen nothing in PP's game to' be worried about like so many on here are. He's hitting a few shots, getting to the line, he's rebounding and assisting well. I just dont get why people are so concerened. Furthermore, Porter has way more upside then Ariza and will play more with TA gone. Sorry, but Im taking the combo of Pierce & Porter over Ariza 10 times out of 10.

Also, stop going crazy in a negative light over Preseason. Again, 90% of this board hated Ariza until the final preseason game. He missed every shot until then. Dont make the same mistake with Pierce

I don't think you were alone on that. But yeah, there were lots of people complaining that we got him to begin with and 1000 trades to get ride of him.

But your right. The combo of Otto and PP is better then TA. What we lost is continuity at SF. And thats just something we will have to build again. People seem to forget that to begin last year, we didn't even have that with TA. He came off the bench the year before while Webster was the starter and most thought Webster should have started again to begin last year. But Randy saw the better fix was Trevor A.

What we have this year out of the gate is a powerful front court and PG continuity. We should feed the post early and often and get other teams into foul trouble. Thats our advantage to start the year. Over time, we get Webster and Beal back and Otto will settle in. Then we will go on some nice long kick ass win streaks.

nate33 wrote:

jangles86 wrote:

nate33 wrote:I really, really wish we could have convinced Ariza to stay and play on a 2-year contract, overpaying him if necessary. I don't like how this team is constructed, and it's even worse now without Beal. Basically, the only players on the roster who have the type of game that meshes well with Wall are Beal and Gortat. And we just lost Beal.

Going back in the time machine, the thing to do was to draft Nerlens Noel last year. Then convince Ariza to resign this year. Sign Pierce with the MLE. And sign Booker to a 2-year contract if possible, or Blair to the 2-year deal using the Maynor TPE. The team would have looked like this:

PG Wall/Miller
SG Beal/Webster
SF Ariza/Pierce/Rice
PF Nene/Gooden/Blair/Pierce
C Gortat/Nene/Noel

Put Beal, Ariza, Pierce and Gortat (or Nene) around Wall in crunch time and things would go smoothly. Meanwhile Noel and Rice develop on the bench and become good, cheap depth in 2016 when we dump all the big contracts and go after Durant.

Go back even further.
We shouldve drafted Drummond and not overpayed Gortat. Would've been far more attractive to Durant in 2015.

I don't blame management for that one. First of all, I'm not so sure we would have had the same success with Drummond last year as we did with Gortat and Beal. I expect that playoff success to be meaningful for the team's development going forward. Also, very few people honestly thought Drummond should go 3rd in that draft. I don't think it's fair to bust management for a decision that almost nobody else would have made if in that position. There were a lot of doubts about Drummond at that time.

But the Porter/Noel choice seemed pretty obvious to me. I'm still really upset we didn't take Noel. And since Porter gave us absolutely nothing last year, the fact that Noel was injured in his rookie season would have had no consequences.

Right. Beal was the right pick. Its actually the one pick I wanted them to make that they did so I have no problem with it.

As for Noel or Otto. Lets see what the season brings.

And you can't count Otto injured in the formula because he wasn't when he was drafted. Noel was.

Had Otto been healthy all year, he could have helped last playoffs. Hell, even as it was I wanted to see him get some minutes since Webster was laboring.

dlts20 wrote:why are you sold on Noel being so much better than Porter or Noel being a better deal than Porter-Gortat as you say? Ive seen nothing from Noel yet to make me say we missed on him so much. If there was one game to win tomorrow, I would take Porter in that game over Noel. As for going forward, again I have seen nothing to say that Noel's upside is so much greater

It's not that I'm sold on Noel. It's that I have no reason to think Porter is better than Noel and at least Noel fills a need. We have no young bigs worth developing. Also, bigs are much harder to find than wings.

If they were both in the draft this year, I'd still take Noel. He's just a better prospect.

To me, the only argument to take Porter over Noel was concern that Noel couldn't play in his rookie year because of the knee injury. Well, that turned out to be irrelevant because Porter made no meaningful contribution as a rookie either.

Beal's presence doesn't hurt in so much as losing his ability to shoot 3s and replacing him with a lesser shooter. We'll have to play a different type of game offensively as we no longer have the shooters for the drive & kick option.

I don't see us bottoming out or anything. Maybe an extra loss or 2. Spacing will be pretty poor, I suspect we'll win more games on our defense than our offense to start the year. Defensively we shouldn't miss a beat, Pierce may not be the individual defender Ariza was, but he's always going to be in the right spot. Rice has the tools & willingness to defend solidly on the perimeter.