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John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III

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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1481 » by CobraCommander » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:20 pm

JWizmentality wrote:Did....did someone just say that Gil shrank in big moments??? :o


No....

Where you hear that blasphemy-

Gil, like a lot of dudes just wasn’t Lebron. No shame in that.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1482 » by payitforward » Mon Dec 3, 2018 4:56 pm

I posted this in another thread, about Wall & the refs, but it really belongs here:

John Wall's attitude is not our problem. As to his play, the difference between this season & his career-best season two years ago comes down to a couple of things:

1. Free throw shooting: John's 2pt. % is higher than it was two years ago, & his 3 pt. % is the same as it was then (on more 3pt. attempts). His eFG% is up, in other words. In fact, it's at a career high!

But his TS% is down all the same, because he's shooting 67.6% from the line. If he were shooting 80% on his FTs, as he did 2 years ago, he'd be posting a career high in both points & TS%.

2. Assists: John is down 2.25 assists per 40 minutes compared to 2 years ago. Currently, he is #11 in assists this year among PGs who've played significant minutes. But, in 2016-17, he was #4.

For the rest, overall, he's playing at the same level he did 2 years ago. He's a little down in steals & rebounding, but he's also turning it over less, & he's up in blocked shots.

On the whole, however, his level of play is down from that best year. & if there's a concern, it's that after over 20,000 minutes of NBA play, John Wall is quite likely past his peak, meaning that one might speculate that he's unlikely to return to that level, even less likely to sustain that level of play, & almost certainly won't improve on it.

At the same time, obviously, that's not a statement about John Wall in particular but rather about the usual arc of an NBA player's career. So, we'll just have to wait and see.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1483 » by Wiz99 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 6:08 pm

payitforward wrote:I posted this in another thread, about Wall & the refs, but it really belongs here:

John Wall's attitude is not our problem. As to his play, the difference between this season & his career-best season two years ago comes down to a couple of things:

1. Free throw shooting: John's 2pt. % is higher than it was two years ago, & his 3 pt. % is the same as it was then (on more 3pt. attempts). His eFG% is up, in other words. In fact, it's at a career high!

But his TS% is down all the same, because he's shooting 67.6% from the line. If he were shooting 80% on his FTs, as he did 2 years ago, he'd be posting a career high in both points & TS%.

2. Assists: John is down 2.25 assists per 40 minutes compared to 2 years ago. Currently, he is #11 in assists this year among PGs who've played significant minutes. But, in 2016-17, he was #4.

For the rest, overall, he's playing at the same level he did 2 years ago. He's a little down in steals & rebounding, but he's also turning it over less, & he's up in blocked shots.

On the whole, however, his level of play is down from that best year. & if there's a concern, it's that after over 20,000 minutes of NBA play, John Wall is quite likely past his peak, meaning that one might speculate that he's unlikely to return to that level, even less likely to sustain that level of play, & almost certainly won't improve on it.

At the same time, obviously, that's not a statement about John Wall in particular but rather about the usual arc of an NBA player's career. So, we'll just have to wait and see.


And I’ll put my reply here too...

John’s attitude isn’t a problem, but he’s sucking at FTs and Assists, both of which are largely mental, as in do I concentrate enuf to shoot as well as I can and to distribute the rock?

Yah, no attitude problem. /s
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1485 » by nate33 » Tue Dec 4, 2018 2:16 pm


I'm really glad this got picked up by the media. Wall needs to be ridiculed for this. Absolutely inexcusable.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1486 » by Ruzious » Tue Dec 4, 2018 3:14 pm

Yeah, that was worse than the one where Otto fell asleep for a second or 2 and was ridiculed by Shaq. Wall fell asleep for an entire defensive possession there. You can't teach that... laziness.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1487 » by Kanyewest » Tue Dec 4, 2018 5:09 pm

payitforward wrote:I posted this in another thread, about Wall & the refs, but it really belongs here:

John Wall's attitude is not our problem. As to his play, the difference between this season & his career-best season two years ago comes down to a couple of things:

1. Free throw shooting: John's 2pt. % is higher than it was two years ago, & his 3 pt. % is the same as it was then (on more 3pt. attempts). His eFG% is up, in other words. In fact, it's at a career high!

But his TS% is down all the same, because he's shooting 67.6% from the line. If he were shooting 80% on his FTs, as he did 2 years ago, he'd be posting a career high in both points & TS%.

2. Assists: John is down 2.25 assists per 40 minutes compared to 2 years ago. Currently, he is #11 in assists this year among PGs who've played significant minutes. But, in 2016-17, he was #4.

For the rest, overall, he's playing at the same level he did 2 years ago. He's a little down in steals & rebounding, but he's also turning it over less, & he's up in blocked shots.

On the whole, however, his level of play is down from that best year. & if there's a concern, it's that after over 20,000 minutes of NBA play, John Wall is quite likely past his peak, meaning that one might speculate that he's unlikely to return to that level, even less likely to sustain that level of play, & almost certainly won't improve on it.

At the same time, obviously, that's not a statement about John Wall in particular but rather about the usual arc of an NBA player's career. So, we'll just have to wait and see.


Interesting points. Yeah you are right that John Wall appears to be getting worse and not better although some of that can be mitigated by better free throw shooting.

That being said, the league is getting much better since 2016-17 the year that Wall made an all NBA team.While John Wall has raised his efg%, so has the rest of the league. Over the last two years, guys like Irving (53.5% to 55%), Bledsoe (45% to 59%), Westbrook (47.6% to 49.6%), Curry (56 to 64%) have raised their efg% while players like Walker (52%), Lillard(51%), Lowry (54%), have not improved their efg% still have better efg% than Wall. And Lowry now averages more assists than Wall!

Wall's assist to turnover ratio is currently at 2.4. While it appears to be getting better, it is still the worst it has been since 2012-13.

While Wall's steals are up, it feels a bit empty as the Wizards are one of the worst if not worst defensive teams in the NBA. it doesn't feel like John Wall has th defensive gear which is what many said separated him from Kyrie Iriving in the past.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1488 » by nate33 » Tue Dec 4, 2018 5:39 pm

Did the Wizards lose a key shooting coach or something? I find it interesting that Oubre, Porter and Beal have all regressed dramatically from 3-point range, while at the same time, Wall has forgotten how to shoot free throws.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1489 » by Wizardspride » Tue Dec 4, 2018 6:30 pm

nate33 wrote:Did the Wizards lose a key shooting coach or something? I find it interesting that Oubre, Porter and Beal have all regressed dramatically from 3-point range, while at the same time, Wall has forgotten how to shoot free throws.

Weird, isn't it?

We talk about the team lacking chemistry etc...and that may be true....but personally, I just think they don't make enough shots.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1490 » by Wiz99 » Sun Dec 9, 2018 3:54 am

John Wall, 1 pt vs rookie Sexton and bottom feeding Cleveland.

Man, this guy finds creative ways to embarrass himself.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1491 » by trast66 » Sun Dec 9, 2018 3:58 am

The excuse he had a kid this week does not fly unless he is the one who gave birth to it.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1492 » by ClutchDJ » Sun Dec 9, 2018 3:18 pm

It’s a damn shame John has let his insecurities get the best of him. He’s so deep in it too that I think he can’t even be saved.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1493 » by CobraCommander » Sun Dec 9, 2018 5:13 pm

trast66 wrote:The excuse he had a kid this week does not fly unless he is the one who gave birth to it.


Did the kid die or have birth defects? On some human compassion emotional empathy notes....if that happen I can understand. Otherwise...take leave and come back when ready.

If nothing horrible happen in child birth -if he wasn’t ready he should not have come back.


On another note...John should/could be contemplating the reality of being a father and a better dad than his dad. If that doesn’t weigh on him, he is scum. JW is a blood-allstar basketball player-father and he has to reconcile that in light of his father road. Call me crazy but that’s real stuff right there....

But JW getting one point feels like Jimmy Butler demanding a trade...but that’s me without facts
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1494 » by nate33 » Sun Dec 9, 2018 5:20 pm

CobraCommander wrote:
trast66 wrote:The excuse he had a kid this week does not fly unless he is the one who gave birth to it.


Did the kid die or have birth defects? On some human compassion emotional empathy notes....if that happen I can understand. Otherwise...take leave and come back when ready.

If nothing horrible happen in child birth -if he wasn’t ready he should not have come back.


On another note...John should/could be contemplating the reality of being a father and a better dad than his dad. If that doesn’t weigh on him, he is scum. JW is a blood-allstar basketball player-father and he has to reconcile that in light of his father road. Call me crazy but that’s real stuff right there....

But JW getting one point feels like Jimmy Butler demanding a trade...but that’s me without facts

It's perfectly reasonable for Wall to be unwilling or unable to think about basketball at this pivotal moment in his life. That's fine. If he had chosen not to play, I would have supported it.

My issue is with him trying to play when he knew he couldn't give close to 100% (be for physical or emotional reasons). He isn't good enough to play half-assed and still help the team.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1495 » by Earth2Ted » Sun Dec 9, 2018 6:23 pm

Definitely time for John to move on- he's done here mentally.

I would just hold him out until 12/15/18 or whenever it is that we might be waiting to pull the trigger on a deal.

I expect him, wherever he goes, to go back to the player we thought he was, and that he'll be like Shelvin Mack and Shaun Livingston who we thought were toast here, and then they go elsewhere and look like entirely different players.

I hope all the stuff that Kev mentioned in his bulletsforever article about the Lakers rumors actually goes down. That would obviously be great for the Wiz, and also I've always felt that Wall needed to be with a Lebron who would be both the go to guy on the court and the alpha dog off it, and that, as good as he's been at times for us, that he would never be a true franchise player on a championship contender.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1497 » by nate33 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:08 pm


:nonono:

This is institutional failure on the part of the Wizards organization. Wall's penchant for standing around and doing nothing is absolutely inexcusable and should have been nipped in the bud during his rookie season. It's also really frustrating because it shows an appalling lack of basketball IQ. It's just common sense that it's a really bad idea to stand around off to the side of the lane when people are battling for rebounds. You have no chance to get the rebound from there, and if the other team gets it, you are in terrible position to play transition defense. It's basketball 101. When the ball is shot, everybody should be moving somewhere with a purpose. You either go fight for the rebound or get back on D, or maybe, if it looks like your teammate has a good chance at the board, you move into position behind the arc for a catch-and-shoot 3.

And this type of inactivity is even more demoralizing than merely making bad decisions when the ball is shot. Westbrook, for example, constantly crashes the offensive boards when the odds are very low that he'll get the board, instead of simply getting back on D. It costs his team in defensive transition, but at least it shows effort.

Wall's laziness is toxic. And to be fair, it may not even be laziness per se. It may just be really poor instincts. Wall doesn't seem to understand that in any type of loose ball situation, your instinct should be to be moving, or at least to be on your toes ready to dart quickly in some direction. As a general rule, in the game of basketball, you should never be relaxed and casually walking unless you are walking the ball up the court or your teammate is. You are either moving with a purpose, or on your toes ready to move quickly.
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1498 » by Wiz99 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:04 pm

What historical players are good comparisons to John Wall at this moment in his career with his mix of highs/lows?

-28 yrs old, 9 seasons in The Association

-A much-hyped rookie (1st team All Rookie) who’s cred didn’t explode instantly but grew steadily to year 5 with his first All Star selection (and a 2nd team All D recognition)

-Then an All NBA (3rd team) selection and 4 consecutive All Star games, seemed poised to be a fixture among top 10-20 players in The Association

-Now suddenly in serious danger of missing his first All Star game since 2013, literally a guy NBA analysts/columnists make fun of, and widely viewed as untradeable

Have we ever seen another player go from such heights to such a low so quick, in the prime of their career? If so, who? And what happened to the rest of their career?
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1499 » by nate33 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:42 pm

Wiz99 wrote:What historical players are good comparisons to John Wall at this moment in his career with his mix of highs/lows?

-28 yrs old, 9 seasons in The Association

-A much-hyped rookie (1st team All Rookie) who’s cred didn’t explode instantly but grew steadily to year 5 with his first All Star selection (and a 2nd team All D recognition)

-Then an All NBA (3rd team) selection and 4 consecutive All Star games, seemed poised to be a fixture among top 10-20 players in The Association

-Now suddenly in serious danger of missing his first All Star game since 2013, literally a guy NBA analysts/columnists make fun of, and widely viewed as untradeable

Have we ever seen another player go from such heights to such a low so quick, in the prime of their career? If so, who? And what happened to the rest of their career?

Melo comes to mind, but it wasn't in the prime of his career.

But let's not act like Wall has suddenly become a terrible player. Statistically, he was having a pretty good season until the Cleveland numbers brought down his averages. But for many reasons, the team isn't having much success and they've been blown out by bad teams. Wall is being scapegoated as the primary cause which isn't really the case. Wall bears some of the blame to be sure, but so do other players. Then factor that Wall is due an immense pay raise, and suddenly people are more critical of his weaknesses.

What I think is weird is this tendency to stand around on the court and do nothing. I don't really think it's laziness. It's not like Wall doesn't care. It's just this odd lack of a "motor". His default state while on the court is to stand still flatfooted, rather than to be on his toes, jogging or running to the next spot. You see it every once in a while in other players too. Harden does it. Wade used to do it at times. Markieff Morris does it too. Lots of centers do it, particularly in the old days when tall people played basketball because they were tall, not because they liked basketball.

It's bizarre because you would think that nobody on the planet could conceivably make the NBA despite having such terrible instincts.

I think one of the main problems for the Wizards is that we have two guys like that, and we've had them too long, and the team has developed an atmosphere where it's tolerated. As fans, we all love Sato just because he works hard out there and is willing to scrap and claw for every loose ball. Frankly, EVERYONE should be doing that. How good could Morris be if he flew around the court like Sato?
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Re: John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III 

Post#1500 » by pcbothwel » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:20 pm

Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Stephon Marbury, Deron Williams... Top 5 picks, bigger PG's, Leadership/health issues, big contracts.

Doesnt look good post 29/30 y/o.
Unless a big offer comes up for Wall ... move Oubre, Morris, and Rivers for expiring filler & small assets while getting under tax. \
- Sign Lawson, play Brown.

This summer, You will see a huge Sellers market and would be the best time to move any of our max contracts, but specifically Wall.

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