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http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/2/18/8063 ... i-redskins

Full story above. I know this isn't the Skins board, but this is huge and deserves its own thread.

Some juicy bits

- Shanahan pleaded with Robert to run the 2012 offense, Robert refused

- Dr. Andrews' a huge contributer to Roberts injuries


Its a good read. I don't have an opinion yes as I'm still taking it all in.

It just seems like the Redskins are a dysfunctional organization. If you want to see winning football- no need to watch it here especially with Snyder in charge.

"Revealed" isn't the right word. What we got today (and it was a really good get by Sheehan and Loverro) was Shanahan's side of the story. It was interesting to hear, and I'm sure much of it was basically what went down. But keep in mind, it's one guy's story. Predictably, in Shanahan's version, he was right about everything, but was the victim of the owner, the doctor and the QB. Griffin probably would tell it differently. So would Andrews. So would Snyder and Allen.

^^ Even if it is Shanahan's side of the story and he's completely wrong, Snyder still hired him.

I didn't hear Shanahan say he made a mistake in that entire interview. Every one else was to blame for anything bad that happened.

TGW wrote:I didn't hear Shanahan say he made a mistake in that entire interview. Every one else was to blame for anything bad that happened.

Shanahan did say that the RG3 trade was a mistake given that the cap penalties that were going to happen. He also said that he had misused RG3 earlier in the season when Washington was 3-6 and last in 3rd down conversions. He also wished that he had made more of an emphasis on RG3 learning how to slide.

Of course, I could point to more mistakes (switching to a 3-4 defense, benching McNabb with 2 minutes, should have used his own intuition to take out RG3)- still no one is perfect.

Jay Gruden names Robert Griffin III Redskins’ starting quarterback to start ’15

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

Yeah, his points about the Andrews stuff was cringeworthy in regards to how he was shifting away blame. Anyone with eyes saw that Robert should have been pulled. But besides that I believe the rest of it for the most part.

The thing is, the read option wasn't what was getting Robert killed to begin with. He's still been taking big hits in years 2 and 3. There isn't any reason why a healthy RGIII couldn't have been doing a lot of the things Russell was doing behind a good o-line in Seattle.

It's really sad, because everybody loved this kid and he was the only guy in the room ashamed of his running QB label.

Listened to all of that. Makes sense. Robert is a stubborn SOB with a huge ego.

Project Patience

I expect in time Robert will look back and realize Shanny actually had his back running the 50 series.

Shanny was a good coach. But of course, the Dan always sticking his noise in places he shouldn't.

Dan saying he didn't talk with Robert about being a pocket QB after they spend time together. Ahh yeah.

The Redskins sucking for so long was all about the Dan. Look no further. Fish stinks from the head down.

Shanahan made his share of mistakes, is not a good GM and should have taken more blame in that interview, but the fans who villainize Shanahan are complete lunatics. He's still a significantly better coach than Gruden or anyone we're going to hire in the near future. The problem with the Skins starts with Snyder and ends with the fact that RG3 just isn't that good and doesn't have the head/personality to be an NFL QB.

RG3 does not sound like someone who you'd want to coach. The dude is delusional about himself and seems two-faced in a way that is kind of bothersome.

Dark Faze wrote:Yeah, his points about the Andrews stuff was cringeworthy in regards to how he was shifting away blame. Anyone with eyes saw that Robert should have been pulled. But besides that I believe the rest of it for the most part.

The thing is, the read option wasn't what was getting Robert killed to begin with. He's still been taking big hits in years 2 and 3. There isn't any reason why a healthy RGIII couldn't have been doing a lot of the things Russell was doing behind a good o-line in Seattle.

It's really sad, because everybody loved this kid and he was the only guy in the room ashamed of his running QB label.

Exactly. And not pulling him (clearly imo - THE fault of both Shannahans) everything could have come out differently - and one of the Shannahans would likely still be here as the head coach.

Actually, its doesn't look that way to me all and its not just from the Shanny interview, though the interview supports a lot of what I suspected.

Its starts and ends with the Dan and Robert.

Shanny understood who Robert was and what he could and couldn't do. And I have heard lots of analyst break down Robert's game and say the same thing. He can't read the defenses well enough to see 2nd, 3rd, 4th options. Shanny said the same thing.

That isn't what Robert learned in college. He might be able to learn. He suspected he would be able to learn. But that would be a process that takes 3-5 years.

Well they drafted Robert and it sounds like Shanny laid out the timeline for Robert to become a drop back passer and put together an offense that would have him succeed in year one without getting clobbered. And they did that. They had a great offensive year. But it was Robert who decided he wanted to be seen like the great smart drop back passers like Brady and Manning. I suspect that was in large part because of he didn't want to be seen as the black guy that wasn't smart enough like that great smart white dudes. And with the Dan in his eye suggesting the he become a drop back, Shanny didn't stand a chance after that. I guess Robert didn't know about the great smart running QBs like Joe Montana and Steve Young

All it sounds like Shanny was telling him was, look... you have to do it now while we grow your game and just the treat of you doing it is going to open the field for you/us. You don't even have to run for big yards. But I don't think Robert had that gear. If he was running, he was going to run. We saw that.

What Shanny said makes perfect sense. He can't be the doctor for each of over 50 players on the team. If Robert said he was good and the doctors said he was good, then you think he is good. Now if he wasn't running the plays or he was just down right not getting it done, that's when a coach decides to pull someone or not. But we are talking your franchise QB. Lots of coaches would ride them through tough times. Most coaches don't change QB very often. You gotta put this in context.

Now as a fan, hell ya I said let Kirk play in those games. But as a coach, with the owner pushing for what he wants, you either do it or leave. But I don't suspect Dan was honest with Shanny. When Shanny paid him a visit and asked if he was involved in what Robert was thinking and Dan said no.... I don't believe that for a second. I suspect Shanny didn't either. And it can't be like that.

I suspect Shanny is more then happy to be away from the Dan who is a total train wreck as an owner. He took a once great franchise and dug it into the ground. Shanny is right. Owner, GM, Coach They need to all be on the same page and I agree.. hell.. I have said the same thing here 1000 times.

To date. the Dan and the Skins have looked a mess. Ted and the Wizards.. they are looking legit. Ted is shinning. Dan.. not so much.

Robert vs Wall... Wall owns this town and the media way more then Robert does. And in the end, that might be the best thing for Robert. Now he has a model to understand and follow because Wall is another top draft pick athletic star who needed to learn the game. Well Wall went thought the process. Not a straight line but he got there. And he put in the time watching film and learned.

As of today. Robert and Dan sound like they were made for each other. Two Peas. And while the finally got a GM, it sound like they found another coach that doesn't agree with them.

It may well take Danny selling the team before they ever get their acts together again. Hell, they had Marty and blow it. Then had Shanny and blow it. Wash.. Rinse.. Repeat. Hey, at least the got a real GM finally. Now we will see if the Dan has learned anything.

hands11 wrote:Jay Gruden names Robert Griffin III Redskins’ starting quarterback to start ’15

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

My initial reaction yesterday was that I don't like handing it to him with no competition. I also still have hope for Cousins. Now, I'm assuming Cousins will be dealt and McCoy will be the backup.

But thinking about it today, I think this is actually more about the new GM. It says to me that he's looking at building longterm and he isn't worried about being competitive next year. So if they're going to be bad, might as well give RG3 the most opportunity to improve. And if he stinks, then you find a new QB in 2016 when you'll also have had 2 full drafts under your belt and a clear salary cap.

LyricalRico wrote:

hands11 wrote:Jay Gruden names Robert Griffin III Redskins’ starting quarterback to start ’15

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

My initial reaction yesterday was that I don't like handing it to him with no competition. I also still have hope for Cousins. Now, I'm assuming Cousins will be dealt and McCoy will be the backup.

But thinking about it today, I think this is actually more about the new GM. It says to me that he's looking at building longterm and he isn't worried about being competitive next year. So if they're going to be bad, might as well give RG3 the most opportunity to improve. And if he stinks, then you find a new QB in 2016 when you'll also have had 2 full drafts under your belt and a clear salary cap.

I was listening to Coley on the radio. Cousins was getting coached by Chuckie Gruden I believe. Something like 3 days worth. They don't know if it will happen again before next season. They believe its a sure thing Cousin makes it in this league. They suspect Jay actually likes Cousins more and that he and the Dan are not on the same page.. shocker.. right.

If you are interested, it was the 2-17 show
http://stationcaster.com/player_skinned ... &f=4017213

I think publicly giving Robert the nod is a PR move. It puts a lot of summer speculation to rest which is good. Its keeps the media circus away and if gives Robert room to get his act together. But this is not settled in the least.

And until I see the Dan truly get the hell out of the way or sell the team, I will not trust another rebuild under the same owner. I have seen this show before. I don't trust the DAN. Marty. Joe Gibbs, Shanny.. makes no different if Dan is at the top.

hands11 wrote:

LyricalRico wrote:

hands11 wrote:Jay Gruden names Robert Griffin III Redskins’ starting quarterback to start ’15

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

My initial reaction yesterday was that I don't like handing it to him with no competition. I also still have hope for Cousins. Now, I'm assuming Cousins will be dealt and McCoy will be the backup.

But thinking about it today, I think this is actually more about the new GM. It says to me that he's looking at building longterm and he isn't worried about being competitive next year. So if they're going to be bad, might as well give RG3 the most opportunity to improve. And if he stinks, then you find a new QB in 2016 when you'll also have had 2 full drafts under your belt and a clear salary cap.

I was listening to Coley on the radio. Cousins was getting coached by Chuckie Gruden I believe. Something like 3 days worth. They don't know if it will happen again before next season. They believe its a sure thing Cousin makes it in this league. They suspect Jay actually likes Cousins more and that he and the Dan are not on the same page.. shocker.. right.

If you are interested, it was the 2-17 show
http://stationcaster.com/player_skinned ... &f=4017213

I think publicly giving Robert the nod is a PR move. It puts a lot of summer speculation to rest which is good. Its keeps the media circus away and if gives Robert room to get his act together. But this is not settled in the least.

And until I see the Dan truly get the hell out of the way or sell the team, I will not trust another rebuild under the same owner. I have seen this show before. I don't trust the DAN. Marty. Joe Gibbs, Shanny.. makes no different if Dan is at the top.

Yep, I already read Russell's blog on it and I did hear the Cooley segment. The problem with them liking and keeping Cousins IMO is that it makes it very hard to get away with playing Robert. If the media, the fans, and every other player in the locker room sees that Cousins is more liked by the coaches and also possibly better at running the offense - yet they continue to play Griffin? How can you expect that to be anything other than a mess, especially internally? But if McNewGM is going to completely re-do the roster, maybe they don't care about losing the existing locker room.

How about this - maybe they are so sure on Cousins that they sent him to Chuckie to convince him to stay one more year on the bench, with the knowledge that they have to play Griffin because of the owner but they fully expect him to fail. Then they re-sign Kirk in 2016 and the team is his. And everyone involved has just resigned themselves to enduring a horrible 2015 while they get the owner's fave player out the door, and then they can move on.

All that interview revealed was what we already knew: the Redskins are a dysfunctional mess of an organization.

Kanyewest wrote:

TGW wrote:I didn't hear Shanahan say he made a mistake in that entire interview. Every one else was to blame for anything bad that happened.

Shanahan did say that the RG3 trade was a mistake given that the cap penalties that were going to happen. He also said that he had misused RG3 earlier in the season when Washington was 3-6 and last in 3rd down conversions. He also wished that he had made more of an emphasis on RG3 learning how to slide.

Of course, I could point to more mistakes (switching to a 3-4 defense, benching McNabb with 2 minutes, should have used his own intuition to take out RG3)- still no one is perfect.

Well, he didn't say trading for Griffin was a mistake, he said he wouldn't have made the trade IF HE'D KNOWN about the cap penalty.

The defining pattern of that interview was that Shanahan was never wrong and never at fault. Whatever went wrong was because of someone else: the owner, the team president, the doctor, the league itself and the quarterback.

Which struck me as odd considering that when hired, he was allegedly given final say over all football personnel matters. Which means, he should have been the one making The Decision about McNabb (for example), Griffin, etc. As the head coach and vice president in charge of football operations, he should be taking at least some responsibility. But nope -- Shanahan was correct at every turn. It was everyone around him that screwed things up.

Agree with Weapon - He was in charge of everything but responsible for nothing - according to him.

hands11 wrote:

LyricalRico wrote:

hands11 wrote:Jay Gruden names Robert Griffin III Redskins’ starting quarterback to start ’15

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

My initial reaction yesterday was that I don't like handing it to him with no competition. I also still have hope for Cousins. Now, I'm assuming Cousins will be dealt and McCoy will be the backup.

But thinking about it today, I think this is actually more about the new GM. It says to me that he's looking at building longterm and he isn't worried about being competitive next year. So if they're going to be bad, might as well give RG3 the most opportunity to improve. And if he stinks, then you find a new QB in 2016 when you'll also have had 2 full drafts under your belt and a clear salary cap.

I was listening to Coley on the radio. Cousins was getting coached by Chuckie Gruden I believe. Something like 3 days worth. They don't know if it will happen again before next season. They believe its a sure thing Cousin makes it in this league. They suspect Jay actually likes Cousins more and that he and the Dan are not on the same page.. shocker.. right.

If you are interested, it was the 2-17 show
http://stationcaster.com/player_skinned ... &f=4017213

I think publicly giving Robert the nod is a PR move. It puts a lot of summer speculation to rest which is good. Its keeps the media circus away and if gives Robert room to get his act together. But this is not settled in the least.

And until I see the Dan truly get the hell out of the way or sell the team, I will not trust another rebuild under the same owner. I have seen this show before. I don't trust the DAN. Marty. Joe Gibbs, Shanny.. makes no different if Dan is at the top.

LOL at still believing in Cousins/McCoy.

Cousins has the panic gene. Good luck to any coach that believes that can be coached out of him.

TheSecretWeapon wrote:

Kanyewest wrote:

TGW wrote:I didn't hear Shanahan say he made a mistake in that entire interview. Every one else was to blame for anything bad that happened.

Shanahan did say that the RG3 trade was a mistake given that the cap penalties that were going to happen. He also said that he had misused RG3 earlier in the season when Washington was 3-6 and last in 3rd down conversions. He also wished that he had made more of an emphasis on RG3 learning how to slide.

Of course, I could point to more mistakes (switching to a 3-4 defense, benching McNabb with 2 minutes, should have used his own intuition to take out RG3)- still no one is perfect.

Well, he didn't say trading for Griffin was a mistake, he said he wouldn't have made the trade IF HE'D KNOWN about the cap penalty.

The defining pattern of that interview was that Shanahan was never wrong and never at fault. Whatever went wrong was because of someone else: the owner, the team president, the doctor, the league itself and the quarterback.

Which struck me as odd considering that when hired, he was allegedly given final say over all football personnel matters. Which means, he should have been the one making The Decision about McNabb (for example), Griffin, etc. As the head coach and vice president in charge of football operations, he should be taking at least some responsibility. But nope -- Shanahan was correct at every turn. It was everyone around him that screwed things up.

Well, he did take responsibility for being on board the RG3 trade (which I wasn't). I think he went on to say that

They didn't ask him about specific coaching mistakes. Seems as if he's in the mindset that RG3 wasn't truthful which seems to be true given NFL films recording of him saying that he wasn't going to tell Shanahan/doctors that he was injured during the Seattle game.

Also, I'm not really going to dispute Shanahan's argument that Snyder was a meddling owner. It seems as if Washington has been this way since the times of Norv such as Snyder yelling at Norv after games to put in Jeff George. Certainly, it make sense that Shanahan was not a McNabb guy especially since he took him out with 2 minutes left to go in the game (which was a horrid move IMO).

And given what we've seen from this season, it does appear that RG3 has been uncoachable or simply is not good enough given his knee injury.

Of course, I would have loved to here Shanahan say something along the lines that "In retrospect, the RG3 trade was a mistake- it was too much to give up for one player who was damaged goods. Especially since Washington was comfortable taking other QBs on the board including Tannehill, Wilson, and Cousins". Or even, "It was foolish for me to bench McNabb at that stage of the game, especially since Grossman was not ready for the moment- I also lost a lot of trust from McNabb". Truth is Shanahan is not self aware - which is probably true of most people in the world.

Then again, I see Shanahan in a no win situation here as if he completely blasted the trade, it would sound like he's coming down too hard on RG3. RG3 didn't improve this season. His current coach in Jay Gruden said that he didn't know the plays. And RG3 said again that he lied about his foot injury so that he could return sooner to play again. RG3 right now doesn't appear to be a guy that gets it.