Otto Porter Part 2

[payitforward]

Illmatic back spreading lies, tell us more about how we should trade Otto and Oubre for Rudy Gay, monte back being the worst mod in the history of fan boards, TGW back contributing absolutely nothing to anything per usual.

I'm embarrassed for you guys, stop ruining the Otto Porter thread. Go blow each other in the politics thread

Damn, Nat, guy labels you a troll (rightfully or wrongfully) and you essentially confirm it with a simple-minded post like this one.

its like the 5th time he's called me a troll based on the bulletsforever thing(even though he has no clue why I got banned)

Honestly never seen TGW post anything relevant to the wizards. Like honestly, I can't recall one instance.

Just look at this thread, I was simply posting about the team and my opinion, Dat jumps in insulting me, TGW/Monte/Illmatic jump in per usual. It gets old, and frustrating.

But, when you take the bait all you do is make the insult look true. The way to handle a situation like that is to respond right away with a version of the start of that last sentence above.

Just write something like "Hey, I'm simply posting about the team and my opinion. No need to call me names."

Works better than responding by calling other people names!!

Do me a favor, please, & give it a try, ok?

[deneem4]

Like I said the day we drafted Oubre, the day the wizards unleash Porter as the fulltime 4, is the day they make the big jump like the non Durant warriors. Otto can be as good as Draymond even though they have slightly different strengths.

Benefits wall on his switches with literally everyone on defense, having Kelly and Otto to defend guards, gives him more spacing to drive and kick.

Benefits Beal, for the exact same reason

Benefits Oubre obviously giving him starters minutes (with the starters, doesn't have to create his shot)

Benefits Porter, playing his natural position and where he is best, allows him to get more shots because he can screen and get open. Allows him to cut more freely and still have a spaced out offense. Hides his lateral quickness weakness moreso, allows his defense to be a huge strength.

Gortat, spaces the floor for his pick and roll, gives him a frontcourt partner with a brain, much better help defender. Less stupid ass ISOs for Morris that piss him off.

Would improve our 3pt defense obviously, our rebounding, our floor spacing, our switchability, our athletic ability in transition.

Someone tell me what we lose?

gortat can switch on no one...literally....he can barely guard centers...
He don't space the floor
He can't catch a oop in transition anymore

That's what's holding us back
The only centers with no shot that can be played consistently are true rim protectors that's young and athletic

Gobert
Jordan
Adams

Thompson(elite rebounding)
Whiteside(elite rebounding)

Every other center can either shoot or are really power forwards

If you rank the starting centers in the league gortat would be in the bottom 25
That's including being better than zaza
Morris would probably be bottom 25 as a power forward as well but in a league where teams are shooting more than ever il rather have him
1.guarding post players (he's better at that than gortat)
2.switching on shooters
3.spacing the floor
4.running in transition

Dfg%
Kieff 50.7
Gortat 57.7
mahinmi 46.5
Smith 51.3

Dive deeper in the stats and kieff is actually a better rim protecter than gortat...

Otto will get more rebounds playing at the 4 and having oubre on the floor will compensate for gortat rebounding...

And kieff is pretty good in ISO, but it's the same problems nene had...gortat is in the paint and if he steps out his man will leave him open to give help on kieff ISO and no gortat won't hit the jumper if kieff passes

[dckingsfan]

I do worry that if Porter played the PF full-time he would wear down rather quickly. He struggled at the end of the season with being banged up...

[deneem4]

I do worry that if Porter played the PF full-time he would wear down rather quickly. He struggled at the end of the season with being banged up...

He wouldn't have to play full time in a sense
We would still have Morris oubre and smith who can get some minutes there

[CobraCommander]

In the 2014-15 season. Of course,it took a David Lee injury to start the season to put Draymond in the starting lineup and Green had started a few postseason games IIRC after Jermaine O'Neal and Andrew Bogut left the series with injuries.

Never thought I would ever agree with NatP4...but if we are resigned to not win a ring right now, why not get KO playing time with the starters right now? Seriously, what does it hurt? I mean seriously, Morris and Gortat (and other people) should be on the block and we should be trying to get younger studs to give JW, BB and OP a reason to believe the future is going to be brighter when Lebron leaves Cleveland next year.

At the deadline, I would love to turn Gortat, Morris, Smith, filler into Deng and Cousins.
Essentially, we take on Deng and get assets (2020 1st/Nance/Hart)... We then use those assets to get Boogie.

I.E.
Wiz in: Cousins, Deng, Nance
Wiz out: Gortat, Morris, Smith, Frazier & Filler (CMC, Ochefu , etc.)

LAL in: Morris, Smith, Ajinca, Frazier, CMC
LAL out: Deng, Randle, Clarkson, Nance

NOP in: Gortat, Clarckson, Randle
NOP out: Cousins, Ajinca

*** Sweetener for NOP could easily be added by us giving away future pick, routing Hart to NOP, or sending them Sheldon Mac.

I think this has some legs.
LAL gets out of Deng's contract by giving up Randle who is about to be a FA. They get Morris at a cheap 8M and save 19M next year minimum. This summer I see them having no problem dumping Ajinca and his 1/5M contract.
They would have the following team with 2 Max roster spots...

Ball
Hart
Ingram
Morris
Zubac

NOP might be a bottom 10-12 at the deadline in the smallest market in the NBA. Im not sure what teams give anything of value for Boogie at that point. Gortat, Clarkson, and Randle are nice pieces and they dump Ajinca

Rondo / Clarkson
Jrue / Moore
Hill
Randle
AD / Gortat

We go all in with this squad and hope Deng has a nice resurgence as a backup 3/4.
Wall / Sato
Beal / Meeks / Mac
Otto / Oubre
Nance / Deng
Cousins / Mahinmi

If we had a GM this could happen....

[dckingsfan]

Damn, Nat, guy labels you a troll (rightfully or wrongfully) and you essentially confirm it with a simple-minded post like this one.

its like the 5th time he's called me a troll based on the bulletsforever thing(even though he has no clue why I got banned)

Honestly never seen TGW post anything relevant to the wizards. Like honestly, I can't recall one instance.

Just look at this thread, I was simply posting about the team and my opinion, Dat jumps in insulting me, TGW/Monte/Illmatic jump in per usual. It gets old, and frustrating.

But, when you take the bait all you do is make the insult look true. The way to handle a situation like that is to respond right away with a version of the start of that last sentence above.

Just write something like "Hey, I'm simply posting about the team and my opinion. No need to call me names."

Works better than responding by calling other people names!!

Do me a favor, please, & give it a try, ok?

Second this... or in the post where you are clearly just stating an opinion use "IMO" and remember green font is your friend

Keep posting

[FAH1223]

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[Wizardspride]

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[tontoz]

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I think the board is pretty much unanimous about keeping the big 3 together. The problem is the other 12 spots on the roster and the man in charge of filling those spots.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[FAH1223]

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Porter’s response to Wall’s comments revealed that he’s not under any delusion that more money has made him exponentially better (“We’re talking about Paul George,” he said with a shrug). But he also didn’t shriek from the assessment. “I didn’t take no offense to what John had to say. End of the day, it’s just motivating me to get to where that level is. It’s all good,” Porter told The Vertical. “I’ve always had that in the back of mind, what type of player I want to be. I’ve always wanted to be an All-Star type player. I feel like I don’t have a ceiling. I can only get better from here on. And for me, it’s the work that I put in and the goals that I set for myself.”

[CobraCommander]

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Porter’s response to Wall’s comments revealed that he’s not under any delusion that more money has made him exponentially better (“We’re talking about Paul George,” he said with a shrug). But he also didn’t shriek from the assessment. “I didn’t take no offense to what John had to say. End of the day, it’s just motivating me to get to where that level is. It’s all good,” Porter told The Vertical. “I’ve always had that in the back of mind, what type of player I want to be. I’ve always wanted to be an All-Star type player. I feel like I don’t have a ceiling. I can only get better from here on. And for me, it’s the work that I put in and the goals that I set for myself.”

You gotta love how Porter handled JWs comments but if Porter is going to get to that elite level he says he aspires to, he has to want to be the best player on the Wiz and start thier...then go after that all star nod. The Wiz only got one all star and Beal clearly feels like he is the best player on the team...so he got that chip on his shoulder that makes him seem like he could be a allstar at some point. Otto seems like a good guy and a hard worker...but that nice guy unselfish with an honest assessment of themselves attitude in an allstar seems to only exist on the Spurs- the rest of the NBA has guys that have over inflated egos striving for an allstar spot or guys just happy to play a role and cash a nba check. Who is Otto- My hope is Otto is somewhere working on his game and stack ranking SFs and saying...i am going to get in the top 5 this year...like Wall and Beal did - you can argue if either are there but you cant debate if Wall and Beal feel they are top 5 at thier position. Otto should be looking at Gordon Hayward and thinking....dude you should not have come east cause It's Lebron then OTTO... this is going to be a fun year to be a wiz fan if Otto produces at his contract level.

[DCZards]

You gotta love how Porter handled JWs comments but if Porter is going to get to that elite level he says he aspires to, he has to want to be the best player on the Wiz and start thier...then go after that all star nod. The Wiz only got one all star and Beal clearly feels like he is the best player on the team...so he got that chip on his shoulder that makes him seem like he could be a allstar at some point. Otto seems like a good guy and a hard worker...but that nice guy unselfish with an honest assessment of themselves attitude in an allstar seems to only exist on the Spurs- the rest of the NBA has guys that have over inflated egos striving for an allstar spot or guys just happy to play a role and cash a nba check. Who is Otto- My hope is Otto is somewhere working on his game and stack ranking SFs and saying...i am going to get in the top 5 this year...like Wall and Beal did - you can argue if either are there but you cant debate if Wall and Beal feel they are top 5 at thier position. Otto should be looking at Gordon Hayward and thinking....dude you should not have come east cause It's Lebron then OTTO... this is going to be a fun year to be a wiz fan if Otto produces at his contract level.

I hear ya. But I don't expect OP to become that guy who talks about himself or compares his play (at least publicly) to other SFs. But after following Porter at G'Town and learning a good deal about his family background and his basketball roots, I fully expect him to continue to quietly work his natural born butt off and eventually become the guy that others talk about and place in the top 5 at his position.

[payitforward]

He's already one of the best. I'd say Leonard, Butler, Durant & LeBron are clearly superior (but Durant & LeBron mostly play the 4). I don't think there's another 3 in the league who I'd say was clearly superior -- & few who are anywhere near as good.

The only other guy in the conversation would be Hayward, & I'm sure most would say he's better than Porter. He does score a lot more than Otto, & he's a very efficient scorer as well. A terrific player in all. But Otto does too many other things way better than Hayward for the scoring to bring Hayward up to Otto's level.

But even if someone wants to put Hayward above Porter, there's still no question Otto is in the top handful of 3s in the league -- & only just turned 24 a few months ago!

Underrated though Otto Porter is, he's not the most underrated 3 in the league -- that would be Larry Nance. He's outstanding, & he's going to make a total of $3.8m over the next 2 seasons! Doesn't score much, but he is phenomenal at everything else.

[Kanyewest]

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[payitforward]

Here are performance numbers for 3 players. Do they help you figure out how good any of them are? There are %s & numbers per 48 minutes.

Points
Player #1 19.8
Player #2 15.1
Player #3 26.6

Defensive Boards
Player #1 7.3
Player #2 9.7
Player #3 7.3

Offensive Boards
Player #1 2.2
Player #2 1.9
Player #3 1.7

Total Rebounds
Player #1 9.5
Player #2 11.6
Player #3 9.0

Assists
Player #1 2.2
Player #2 10.3
Player #3 3.9

Turnovers
Player #1 .8
Player #2 3.6
Player #3 3.5

Blocks
Player #1 .8
Player #2 2.1
Player #3 1.2

Steals
Player #1 2.1
Player #2 3.0
Player #3 2.1

Fouls
Player #1 3.6
Player #2 4.2
Player #3 3.7

FG %
Player #1 51.5%
Player #2 41.6%
Player #3 45.5%

Two point %
Player #1 57.6%
Player #2 49.0%
Player #3 48.3%

Three point %
Player #1 43.3%
Player #2 30.7%
Player #3 37.2%

FT %
Player #1 83.2%
Player #2 70.9%
Player #3 85.5%

eFG%
Player #1 60.7%
Player #2 47.8%
Player #3 50.2%

TS%
Player #1 62.8%
Player #2 51.9%
Player #3 55.9%

FG Attempts
Player #1 14.8
Player #2 12.7
Player #3 20.9

3PT FG Attempts
Player #1 6.3
Player #2 5.1
Player #3 5.4

FT Attempts
Player #1 2.2
Player #2 4.1
Player #3 6.5

Doesn't matter who they are -- not a guessing game. I'm curious how you would rate them. Who's the most productive? Are they all 3 similarly productive? Is 1 of them an outlier? In which direction (i.e. much better than the other 2? Or much worse than the other 2?)

Is this not enough information to make a judgment? If not, what else would you need to know?

Not asking anyone to make a big deal out of this, not looking for an argument either -- I'm just curious.

(Yikes! This would be much easier if the information was tabular -- I don't know how to do that here I could upload an image of a table, but I don't see a way to upload an image either. HELP!!)

[nate33]

(Yikes! This would be much easier if the information was tabular -- I don't know how to do that here I could upload an image of a table, but I don't see a way to upload an image either. HELP!!)

Code: Select all

           PTS   REB  AST  TO   BLK  STL  PF   eFG%   TS%    FGA
Player #1  19.8  9.5  2.2  0.8  0.8  2.1  3.6  60.7%  62.8%  14.8
Player #2  15.1 11.6 10.3  3.6  2.1  3.0  4.2  47.8%  51.9%  12.7
Player #3  26.6  9.0  3.9  3.5  1.2  2.1  3.7  50.2%  55.9%  20.9

[nate33]

(Yikes! This would be much easier if the information was tabular -- I don't know how to do that here I could upload an image of a table, but I don't see a way to upload an image either. HELP!!)

Code: Select all

           PTS   REB  AST  TO   BLK  STL  PF   eFG%   TS%    FGA
Player #1  19.8  9.5  2.2  0.8  0.8  2.1  3.6  60.7%  62.8%  14.8
Player #2  15.1 11.6 10.3  3.6  2.1  3.0  4.2  47.8%  51.9%  12.7
Player #3  26.6  9.0  3.9  3.5  1.2  2.1  3.7  50.2%  55.9%  20.9

It's tough to compare them without knowing a bit more about their defense. On the offensive side, I'd take Player 1 who is presumably Otto Porter. But Player 2 is posting extremely impressive steals and blocks numbers, and factoring the high assist rate, I'm assuming that's Draymond Green. Knowing Green's real world defensive impact (coupled with his ability to guard all 5 positions and thereby provide insane team flexibility), I'd take him over Porter.

I'm not sure who Player 3 is. He appears to handle the ball a lot more than Porter, getting more shots up and generating more assists, but with a much higher turnover rate. Those extra 7 points and 1.7 assists are nice, but not when it takes him 6.1 extra FGA's plus 4.3 extra FTA's, plus 2.7 extra turnovers. He would have to be a much better or more versatile defender than Otto for me to rank him higher.

[NatP4]

3 has to be Paul George right?