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Kelly Oubre

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1121 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun May 27, 2018 8:00 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Yup. Gooden's good for a streak here and there, but they need longer term answers - and really need to get 2 bigs - considering Nene may be basically done.
Isn't it funny that Nene Hilario is a member of the Houston Rockets now and he may be heading to the NBA finals along with Trevor Ariza!

Taj Gibson is doing quite well with Minnesota.

Bobby Portis is still with the Bulls and Mirotic is with the Pelicans.

The Wizards can't win more than 40 some games and lose in the first round.... Their big men stink largely because of Ernie grunfeld stupidity.



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If watching the Conference Finals has shown anything, it's become a league of guards & wings. Oubre fits the modern game better than Portis. Nene can't get off the bench for Houston. Even the Cavs have played much better w/o Kevin Love in the lineup.

Portis also can't defend anyone or hasn't shown the willingness to. I still see Oubre's upside as Ariza, maybe a little better in time. Only reason I'd seriously consider moving Oubre is financial reasons. When drafted, I said Oubre was 2 years away from being 2 years away. After 3 years, I'm confident his development track is the same. He's likely another year away from truly having a positive impact.
If the Cavaliers had Portis instead of Kevin Love they would already be advanced to the finals.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/portibo01.html

21 points and 11 rebounds per 36 minutes
19.7 player efficiency rating PER

You say he can't defend. Please explain why his defensive box plus minus is better than Kelly Oubre's. Why is Portis' winscore / 48 better? Why is his overall box plus minus better?

Just saying that wings dominate the NBA is one thing. How about Bobby Portis can play small-ball center? Imagine the damn Wizards in the playoffs with Portis who can score instead of Gortat or Mahinmi or Jason Smith.

I disagree with you on this one.

Big time
2020 Wizards SHOULD Draft:

(Unless they move up in the top to draft Wiseman/Okongwu)

JALEN SMITH and either Xavier Tillman, Paul Reed, Udoka Azubuike, or TYLER BEY (if they get lucky and he slips in the draft).
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1122 » by Dat2U » Sun May 27, 2018 11:12 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Isn't it funny that Nene Hilario is a member of the Houston Rockets now and he may be heading to the NBA finals along with Trevor Ariza!

Taj Gibson is doing quite well with Minnesota.

Bobby Portis is still with the Bulls and Mirotic is with the Pelicans.

The Wizards can't win more than 40 some games and lose in the first round.... Their big men stink largely because of Ernie grunfeld stupidity.



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If watching the Conference Finals has shown anything, it's become a league of guards & wings. Oubre fits the modern game better than Portis. Nene can't get off the bench for Houston. Even the Cavs have played much better w/o Kevin Love in the lineup.

Portis also can't defend anyone or hasn't shown the willingness to. I still see Oubre's upside as Ariza, maybe a little better in time. Only reason I'd seriously consider moving Oubre is financial reasons. When drafted, I said Oubre was 2 years away from being 2 years away. After 3 years, I'm confident his development track is the same. He's likely another year away from truly having a positive impact.
If the Cavaliers had Portis instead of Kevin Love they would already be advanced to the finals.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/portibo01.html

21 points and 11 rebounds per 36 minutes
19.7 player efficiency rating PER

You say he can't defend. Please explain why his defensive box plus minus is better than Kelly Oubre's. Why is Portis' winscore / 48 better? Why is his overall box plus minus better?

Just saying that wings dominate the NBA is one thing. How about Bobby Portis can play small-ball center? Imagine the damn Wizards in the playoffs with Portis who can score instead of Gortat or Mahinmi or Jason Smith.

I disagree with you on this one.

Big time


His DBPM is -0.6... at the a C position. His DRPM is -2.16, worse out of any big in the league PF or C! Defense at the C postion matters. He wouldn't be able to stay on the floor in the playoffs, teams would just attack him over and over again.

Also I never said Oubre was ready or a polished product. In another year or two, based on his development curve he'll become a solid player. Obviously he's not there yet. He's still only 22.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1123 » by DCZards » Mon May 28, 2018 4:32 am

payitforward wrote:I have no idea whether Portis is "slow-footed." I'd love to know how you tell that.


...by watching him run up and down the floor. It's called the eye test. :)
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Re: RE: Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1124 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Mon May 28, 2018 12:46 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:What you guys are missing was the Wizards need for perimeter defense. Someone said the Wizards are "loaded" at the 3...in body only, not in ability. Webster is a very average defender. The Wizards need a guy who can defend off the bench as well as provide scoring.

My guy Terry Rozier was selected directly after him...that's the only thing that hurts me about this pick. Always seems to happen this way. Rozier's going to impress...just watch.
Your guy Scary Terry is way better than Kelly o.

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What can I say?


Not sure I recall many mentions here of drafting a PG in the 1st round that year and I still think I should take over scouting/draft duties from Grunfeld.


Terry Rozier's certainly showed his worth and a moniker has even been born out of his play.

We have two quality SF's and a third with potential on the roster, meanwhile the Wizards still need a quality backup PG and it showed in the playoffs.

Folks can keep believing that Satoransky is the answer if they want to.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1125 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon May 28, 2018 3:43 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
If watching the Conference Finals has shown anything, it's become a league of guards & wings. Oubre fits the modern game better than Portis. Nene can't get off the bench for Houston. Even the Cavs have played much better w/o Kevin Love in the lineup.

Portis also can't defend anyone or hasn't shown the willingness to. I still see Oubre's upside as Ariza, maybe a little better in time. Only reason I'd seriously consider moving Oubre is financial reasons. When drafted, I said Oubre was 2 years away from being 2 years away. After 3 years, I'm confident his development track is the same. He's likely another year away from truly having a positive impact.
If the Cavaliers had Portis instead of Kevin Love they would already be advanced to the finals.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/portibo01.html

21 points and 11 rebounds per 36 minutes
19.7 player efficiency rating PER

You say he can't defend. Please explain why his defensive box plus minus is better than Kelly Oubre's. Why is Portis' winscore / 48 better? Why is his overall box plus minus better?

Just saying that wings dominate the NBA is one thing. How about Bobby Portis can play small-ball center? Imagine the damn Wizards in the playoffs with Portis who can score instead of Gortat or Mahinmi or Jason Smith.

I disagree with you on this one.

Big time


His DBPM is -0.6... at the a C position. His DRPM is -2.16, worse out of any big in the league PF or C! Defense at the C postion matters. He wouldn't be able to stay on the floor in the playoffs, teams would just attack him over and over again.

Also I never said Oubre was ready or a polished product. In another year or two, based on his development curve he'll become a solid player. Obviously he's not there yet. He's still only 22.
By the same token if you put Portis at Center in a year or two he's going to adjust and he is going to be a force. He doesn't have the athletic profile that Kelly does but the dude is a baller.

He turned 23 in February and if you look at the statistics he is still improving.
2020 Wizards SHOULD Draft:

(Unless they move up in the top to draft Wiseman/Okongwu)

JALEN SMITH and either Xavier Tillman, Paul Reed, Udoka Azubuike, or TYLER BEY (if they get lucky and he slips in the draft).
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Re: RE: Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1126 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon May 28, 2018 3:46 pm

DCZards wrote:
payitforward wrote:I have no idea whether Portis is "slow-footed." I'd love to know how you tell that.


...by watching him run up and down the floor. It's called the eye test. :)
Slow footed slew-footed right footed or left-footed ....

Dr. Seuss ruined my brain I think...

Portis runs funny and he's IMO a weird dude and he's got crazy eyes. But he's got something about him that makes me think he can play.

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2020 Wizards SHOULD Draft:

(Unless they move up in the top to draft Wiseman/Okongwu)

JALEN SMITH and either Xavier Tillman, Paul Reed, Udoka Azubuike, or TYLER BEY (if they get lucky and he slips in the draft).
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1127 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon May 28, 2018 3:47 pm

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:What you guys are missing was the Wizards need for perimeter defense. Someone said the Wizards are "loaded" at the 3...in body only, not in ability. Webster is a very average defender. The Wizards need a guy who can defend off the bench as well as provide scoring.

My guy Terry Rozier was selected directly after him...that's the only thing that hurts me about this pick. Always seems to happen this way. Rozier's going to impress...just watch.
Your guy Scary Terry is way better than Kelly o.

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What can I say?


Not sure I recall many mentions here of drafting a PG in the 1st round that year and I still think I should take over scouting/draft duties from Grunfeld.


Terry Rozier's certainly showed his worth and a moniker has even been born out of his play.

We have two quality SF's and a third with potential on the roster, meanwhile the Wizards still need a quality backup PG and it showed in the playoffs.

Folks can keep believing that Satoransky is the answer if they want to.
Satoransky would be fine with a coach that was worth a damn. He should be a player that you put at 3 or even possibly four positions.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]
2020 Wizards SHOULD Draft:

(Unless they move up in the top to draft Wiseman/Okongwu)

JALEN SMITH and either Xavier Tillman, Paul Reed, Udoka Azubuike, or TYLER BEY (if they get lucky and he slips in the draft).
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1128 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jun 1, 2018 6:56 am

Dat2U wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I think hind sight shows it was a good pick, now do we trade otto in the off season and go all in on Kelley.


What does "go all in on Kelley" even mean? We need multiple guys with length who can both F spots. Why is Otto's presence tied to Kelly Oubre's development? Oubre averaged 27.5 minutes last year.

You are reading my line of thought differently than I. going on in on kelley is starting him, which if we trade otto we would almost have to do. Trading otto not because of kelley but saying kelley is not ready as reason not to trade otto. When trading otto as a big contract is one of the only ways to create some sort of change.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1129 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 1, 2018 2:17 pm

NatP4 wrote:Wasn’t Portis dead last in DRPM for power forwards? Which would obviously be dead last for centers as well, meaning he is literally the worst defender out of all big men in the entire nba. Add in the inefficiency, hard pass. Plus he’s a dirtbag

Yup.

With 20/20 hindsight, I'm still happy that we picked Oubre over Portis.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1130 » by NatP4 » Fri Jun 1, 2018 2:27 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Your guy Scary Terry is way better than Kelly o.

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What can I say?


Not sure I recall many mentions here of drafting a PG in the 1st round that year and I still think I should take over scouting/draft duties from Grunfeld.


Terry Rozier's certainly showed his worth and a moniker has even been born out of his play.

We have two quality SF's and a third with potential on the roster, meanwhile the Wizards still need a quality backup PG and it showed in the playoffs.

Folks can keep believing that Satoransky is the answer if they want to.
Satoransky would be fine with a coach that was worth a damn. He should be a player that you put at 3 or even possibly four positions.

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Haha. Rozier has never even shot 40% in his career, his rookie season he literally shot 27% from the field. I’ll take Satoransky and his .615 TS% AND Oubre, who is a far better prospect than Rozier. I’ve never seen a player become so massively overrated from just a couple big playoff performances. Using a mid 1st on a career backup PG is not a win in my book.

The Celtics are going to trade him to avoid paying him way too much money and people are going to see, he’s nothing more than an average PG
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1131 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 1, 2018 2:35 pm

NatP4 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:

What can I say?


Not sure I recall many mentions here of drafting a PG in the 1st round that year and I still think I should take over scouting/draft duties from Grunfeld.


Terry Rozier's certainly showed his worth and a moniker has even been born out of his play.

We have two quality SF's and a third with potential on the roster, meanwhile the Wizards still need a quality backup PG and it showed in the playoffs.

Folks can keep believing that Satoransky is the answer if they want to.
Satoransky would be fine with a coach that was worth a damn. He should be a player that you put at 3 or even possibly four positions.

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Haha. Rozier has never even shot 40% in his career, his rookie season he literally shot 27% from the field. I’ll take Satoransky and his .615 TS% AND Oubre, who is a far better prospect than Rozier. I’ve never seen a player become so massively overrated from just a couple big playoff performances. Using a mid 1st on a career backup PG is not a win in my book.

The Celtics are going to trade him to avoid paying him way too much money and people are going to see, he’s nothing more than an average PG

I agree that he is overrated right now. But I do think he'll be a starting caliber PG in this league - probably not an above-average starting PG, but he'll be alright. About as good as a Dennis Schroder or Reggie Jackson.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1132 » by Kanyewest » Fri Jun 1, 2018 3:03 pm

DCZards wrote:
payitforward wrote:I have no idea whether Portis is "slow-footed." I'd love to know how you tell that.


...by watching him run up and down the floor. It's called the eye test. :)


And now he exclusively plays center because he can't keep up with most 4s. I guess the danger with playing and exposing Portis's poor defensive speed is that he could shove you to the ground like he did to Sato.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1133 » by Dat2U » Fri Jun 1, 2018 4:28 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Satoransky would be fine with a coach that was worth a damn. He should be a player that you put at 3 or even possibly four positions.

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Haha. Rozier has never even shot 40% in his career, his rookie season he literally shot 27% from the field. I’ll take Satoransky and his .615 TS% AND Oubre, who is a far better prospect than Rozier. I’ve never seen a player become so massively overrated from just a couple big playoff performances. Using a mid 1st on a career backup PG is not a win in my book.

The Celtics are going to trade him to avoid paying him way too much money and people are going to see, he’s nothing more than an average PG

I agree that he is overrated right now. But I do think he'll be a starting caliber PG in this league - probably not an above-average starting PG, but he'll be alright. About as good as a Dennis Schroder or Reggie Jackson.


I think Rozier is already better than Schroder or Jackson... mainly due to defense. Both Schroder & Jackson are terrible defenders.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1134 » by 80sballboy » Fri Jun 1, 2018 4:31 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
Haha. Rozier has never even shot 40% in his career, his rookie season he literally shot 27% from the field. I’ll take Satoransky and his .615 TS% AND Oubre, who is a far better prospect than Rozier. I’ve never seen a player become so massively overrated from just a couple big playoff performances. Using a mid 1st on a career backup PG is not a win in my book.

The Celtics are going to trade him to avoid paying him way too much money and people are going to see, he’s nothing more than an average PG

I agree that he is overrated right now. But I do think he'll be a starting caliber PG in this league - probably not an above-average starting PG, but he'll be alright. About as good as a Dennis Schroder or Reggie Jackson.


I think Rozier is already better than Schroder or Jackson... mainly due to defense. Both Schroder & Jackson are terrible defenders.


He also made himself a lot of money due to his playoff performance.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1135 » by Joel Embust » Wed Jun 6, 2018 2:35 pm

Rozier's threepoint shooting is also much improved. 2 makes per game at 38%

Schröder and Jackson are miles behind in that category.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1136 » by Ruzious » Wed Jun 6, 2018 3:12 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
Haha. Rozier has never even shot 40% in his career, his rookie season he literally shot 27% from the field. I’ll take Satoransky and his .615 TS% AND Oubre, who is a far better prospect than Rozier. I’ve never seen a player become so massively overrated from just a couple big playoff performances. Using a mid 1st on a career backup PG is not a win in my book.

The Celtics are going to trade him to avoid paying him way too much money and people are going to see, he’s nothing more than an average PG

I agree that he is overrated right now. But I do think he'll be a starting caliber PG in this league - probably not an above-average starting PG, but he'll be alright. About as good as a Dennis Schroder or Reggie Jackson.


I think Rozier is already better than Schroder or Jackson... mainly due to defense. Both Schroder & Jackson are terrible defenders.

Easily better. When he came out of Louisville, I thought he was overrated, but he has improved dramatically. No matter where he's rated, what he does is help win games better than most starting PG's. He plays at his best in crunch time - whether it's getting a big rebound, a big defensive play, setting up a teammate, taking the ball to the rack, or hitting a big 3 on or off the dribble.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1137 » by dckingsfan » Sat Jul 7, 2018 4:38 pm

Okay, I am calling it - I think this is a breakout season for Oubre. I see him continuing to improve on both the offensive and defensive end to a tipping point of more than a replacement player.

FT shooting continues to improve: 633, .758, .820.

3 point shooting .316, .287, .341 (and that was with the horrible streak) continues to improve - I am predicting high .3xx.

TOV% 12.8, 9.3. 9.2 is relatively low even though his usage is climbing.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1138 » by NatP4 » Sat Jul 7, 2018 7:50 pm

If he starts over Morris, he will have a breakout season.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1139 » by dckingsfan » Sat Jul 7, 2018 7:57 pm

NatP4 wrote:If he starts over Morris, he will have a breakout season.

You mean if Porter starts over Morris and Oubre moves into the starting line-up? Couldn't agree more. And Porter's defensive rebounding numbers are very close to Morris. I think that Oubre makes the starting lineup better because you then have another playmaker in the starting line-up. And if you believe (like I do) that Oubre will shoot above .375 from 3 point land - then you will be able to spread the floor better for Wall/Howard.

That leaves you with (ideally) Sato, Rivers, Brown, Morris, Mahimni. Yes, Brown to get him some experience and let him grow. That gives you Rivers and Brown as playmakers in the second unit.

But we both know it won't happen this way.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1140 » by Illmatic12 » Sat Jul 7, 2018 8:20 pm

NatP4 wrote:If he starts over Morris, he will have a breakout season.

We don’t necessarily want Oubre to have a breakout season. Some team will give him a huge RFA offer sheet in free agency and the Wizards will be bent over a barrel.

I would almost rather see Kelly’s role reduced slightly next season. There’s a reason why all these wing players were brought in - I think a large part of it was they wanted guys who would compete against KO for minutes.

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