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Kelly Oubre

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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1141 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Sat Jul 7, 2018 8:31 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:If he starts over Morris, he will have a breakout season.

You mean if Porter starts over Morris and Oubre moves into the starting line-up? Couldn't agree more. And Porter's defensive rebounding numbers are very close to Morris. I think that Oubre makes the starting lineup better because you then have another playmaker in the starting line-up. And if you believe (like I do) that Oubre will shoot above .375 from 3 point land - then you will be able to spread the floor better for Wall/Howard.

That leaves you with (ideally) Sato, Rivers, Brown, Morris, Mahimni. Yes, Brown to get him some experience and let him grow. That gives you Rivers and Brown as playmakers in the second unit.

But we both know it won't happen this way.


Where would you put Jeff Green in that equation?
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1142 » by NatP4 » Sat Jul 7, 2018 8:36 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:If he starts over Morris, he will have a breakout season.

We don’t necessarily want Oubre to have a breakout season. Some team will give him a huge RFA offer sheet in free agency and the Wizards will be bent over a barrel.

I would almost rather see Kelly’s role reduced slightly next season. There’s a reason why all these wing players were brought in - I think a large part of it was they wanted guys who would compete against KO for minutes.


Can always trade him at the deadline if that’s the case, and rely on Brown for the future.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1143 » by NatP4 » Sat Jul 7, 2018 8:40 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:If he starts over Morris, he will have a breakout season.

You mean if Porter starts over Morris and Oubre moves into the starting line-up? Couldn't agree more. And Porter's defensive rebounding numbers are very close to Morris. I think that Oubre makes the starting lineup better because you then have another playmaker in the starting line-up. And if you believe (like I do) that Oubre will shoot above .375 from 3 point land - then you will be able to spread the floor better for Wall/Howard.

That leaves you with (ideally) Sato, Rivers, Brown, Morris, Mahimni. Yes, Brown to get him some experience and let him grow. That gives you Rivers and Brown as playmakers in the second unit.

But we both know it won't happen this way.


Where would you put Jeff Green in that equation?


Wall Sato
Beal Rivers
Oubre Brown
Porter Green
Howard Mahinmi

It just makes no sense to keep Morris on the roster, green and Porter are both better PFs, Howard and Mahinmi are better C options.

Troy Brown just isn’t going to play at all unfortunately. It’ll be this:

Wall Rivers
Beal Sato
Porter Oubre
Morris Green
Howard Mahinmi

It’s just shocking to me that a lineup(Wall Beal Oubre Porter Gortat) that was top 10 in the league for two years straight on 200+ minute sample sizes, is so underused.

Statistically, it’s the best non GS lineup in the NBA.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1144 » by Illmatic12 » Sat Jul 7, 2018 8:48 pm

NatP4 wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:If he starts over Morris, he will have a breakout season.

We don’t necessarily want Oubre to have a breakout season. Some team will give him a huge RFA offer sheet in free agency and the Wizards will be bent over a barrel.

I would almost rather see Kelly’s role reduced slightly next season. There’s a reason why all these wing players were brought in - I think a large part of it was they wanted guys who would compete against KO for minutes.


Can always trade him at the deadline if that’s the case, and rely on Brown for the future.

I think KO brings a different skillset from Brown. He's not a ballhandler like Troy , but he is the prototype wing athlete and has a better catch & shoot game. Ideally you want to be able to play them together , and lineup with multiple wing players who are long 6'7+ and do different things on the court.

I'd like to keep them both if possible.. unless we're trading one of them as part of a package for a better wing .
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1145 » by NatP4 » Sat Jul 7, 2018 9:06 pm

I’d rather keep both as well. Oubre’s skillset does fit perfectly with the starters, he and Otto also have great chemistry. Hopefully Sato and Brown will have similar chemistry and unselfish high effort team guys that compliment each other’s strengths and weakensses, (Sato lack of ball handling, Brown, lack of off ball game)
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1146 » by 80sballboy » Sat Jul 7, 2018 9:15 pm

For Oubre to start over Porter at the 3 and to move OP to the 4, he has to not only improve his 3-point shot and overall IQ awareness, he can't go for the steal all the time on defense. If he's going to be that undisciplined on D, I'd rather have a healthy Morris or Jeff Green at the 4 and Otto at the 3. So far, he hasn't proven he can consistently do both.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1147 » by dckingsfan » Sun Jul 8, 2018 12:40 am

I would say that last season, Oubre was as good as Morris. And Morris isn't going to improve as rapidly (if at) as Oubre. As Nat cited above, the lineup of (Wall Beal Oubre Porter Gortat) was top 10 in the league for two straight years. My guess is (Wall Beal Oubre Porter Howard) should be just as good.

As they say, what are we waiting for... just do it. Or to quote Scotty Brooks when talking about running a modern offense,

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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1148 » by dckingsfan » Sun Jul 8, 2018 12:41 am

NatP4 wrote:
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:You mean if Porter starts over Morris and Oubre moves into the starting line-up? Couldn't agree more. And Porter's defensive rebounding numbers are very close to Morris. I think that Oubre makes the starting lineup better because you then have another playmaker in the starting line-up. And if you believe (like I do) that Oubre will shoot above .375 from 3 point land - then you will be able to spread the floor better for Wall/Howard.

That leaves you with (ideally) Sato, Rivers, Brown, Morris, Mahimni. Yes, Brown to get him some experience and let him grow. That gives you Rivers and Brown as playmakers in the second unit.

But we both know it won't happen this way.


Where would you put Jeff Green in that equation?


Wall Sato
Beal Rivers
Oubre Brown
Porter Green
Howard Mahinmi

It just makes no sense to keep Morris on the roster, green and Porter are both better PFs, Howard and Mahinmi are better C options.

Troy Brown just isn’t going to play at all unfortunately. It’ll be this:

Wall Rivers
Beal Sato
Porter Oubre
Morris Green
Howard Mahinmi

It’s just shocking to me that a lineup(Wall Beal Oubre Porter Gortat) that was top 10 in the league for two years straight on 200+ minute sample sizes, is so underused.

Statistically, it’s the best non GS lineup in the NBA.

Love to trade Morris for 2nd round picks...
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1149 » by queridiculo » Sun Jul 8, 2018 1:30 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Love to trade Morris for 2nd round picks...


Wouldn't be surprised to see Morris moved in a three-way deal at the trade deadline.

Wizards receive a trade exception, and the receiving team sends a 2nd rounder to a team with enough cap space to absorb the contract.

There's a glut of teams out West that could use some help at the position.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1150 » by prime1time » Mon Jul 9, 2018 12:22 am

NatP4 wrote:
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:You mean if Porter starts over Morris and Oubre moves into the starting line-up? Couldn't agree more. And Porter's defensive rebounding numbers are very close to Morris. I think that Oubre makes the starting lineup better because you then have another playmaker in the starting line-up. And if you believe (like I do) that Oubre will shoot above .375 from 3 point land - then you will be able to spread the floor better for Wall/Howard.

That leaves you with (ideally) Sato, Rivers, Brown, Morris, Mahimni. Yes, Brown to get him some experience and let him grow. That gives you Rivers and Brown as playmakers in the second unit.

But we both know it won't happen this way.


Where would you put Jeff Green in that equation?


Wall Sato
Beal Rivers
Oubre Brown
Porter Green
Howard Mahinmi

It just makes no sense to keep Morris on the roster, green and Porter are both better PFs, Howard and Mahinmi are better C options.

Troy Brown just isn’t going to play at all unfortunately. It’ll be this:

Wall Rivers
Beal Sato
Porter Oubre
Morris Green
Howard Mahinmi

It’s just shocking to me that a lineup(Wall Beal Oubre Porter Gortat) that was top 10 in the league for two years straight on 200+ minute sample sizes, is so underused.

Statistically, it’s the best non GS lineup in the NBA.

Is that true, regarding the Wall, Beal, Oubre, Porter, Gortat lineup? We closed with Wall, Beal, Porter, Oubre Morris. But I think the issue is that Scott loves lineups with 5 bench guys. I like Scott but it might be time for a change.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1151 » by prime1time » Mon Jul 9, 2018 12:24 am

What are people thinking about next year for an Oubre extension? Are teams projected to have a ton of cap space? I’d hate to lose Oubre, but with so much money committed to John, Bradley and Otto I just don’t see how we could afford him.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1152 » by dckingsfan » Mon Jul 9, 2018 12:33 am

prime1time wrote:What are people thinking about next year for an Oubre extension? Are teams projected to have a ton of cap space? I’d hate to lose Oubre, but with so much money committed to John, Bradley and Otto I just don’t see how we could afford him.

Yes to lots of teams having cap space, I count 1/2 the league at 80M and under:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1153 » by NatP4 » Mon Jul 9, 2018 12:59 am

prime1time wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
Where would you put Jeff Green in that equation?


Wall Sato
Beal Rivers
Oubre Brown
Porter Green
Howard Mahinmi

It just makes no sense to keep Morris on the roster, green and Porter are both better PFs, Howard and Mahinmi are better C options.

Troy Brown just isn’t going to play at all unfortunately. It’ll be this:

Wall Rivers
Beal Sato
Porter Oubre
Morris Green
Howard Mahinmi

It’s just shocking to me that a lineup(Wall Beal Oubre Porter Gortat) that was top 10 in the league for two years straight on 200+ minute sample sizes, is so underused.

Statistically, it’s the best non GS lineup in the NBA.

Is that true, regarding the Wall, Beal, Oubre, Porter, Gortat lineup? We closed with Wall, Beal, Porter, Oubre Morris. But I think the issue is that Scott loves lineups with 5 bench guys. I like Scott but it might be time for a change.


Of all lineups that played 200+ minutes in 2017-2018, they were ranked #7 https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*200&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Of all lineups that played 200+ minutes in 2016-2017 (healthy John Wall), they were ranked #3 overall, behind only the GS starters, and the GS death lineup. https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*200&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Look at this one, 4 man combos in 2016-2017, all GS lineups and then who’s next? Wall-Beal-Oubre-Porter https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*200&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=4
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1154 » by NatP4 » Mon Jul 9, 2018 1:01 am

It’s not crazy at all to think that this team could challenge GS if Oubre just improves (which he will, he’s only 22), and Brooks just finally stops being a moron and changes the team’s style of play and rotations.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1155 » by prime1time » Mon Jul 9, 2018 1:29 am

NatP4 wrote:It’s not crazy at all to think that this team could challenge GS if Oubre just improves (which he will, he’s only 22), and Brooks just finally stops being a moron and changes the team’s style of play and rotations.

Money’s going to be an issue fairly soon but things are really interesting when you start talking about player’s ceilings. Oubre is only 22. He continue sto improve and he can eventually become a player that can attack off the bounce, hit 3’s and do some adequate playmaking. And when you look at Otto and Beal both of those guys are trending in the same direction. Watching summer league today, Brooks pointed out that Wall made 40% of his set 3’s last year. It’s clear to me that the organization is trying to move in the direction of taking the ball out of Wall’s hands and becoming more free flowing. I’d Wall continues to improve as a 3-point shooter, it’ll make this team that much harder to guard. That’s not to say Wall has to relinquish his control over the offense completely, but right now his control over it is way too significant. We need to democratize the offense and be smarter in attacking mismatches.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1156 » by pcbothwel » Mon Jul 9, 2018 2:39 am

dckingsfan wrote:
prime1time wrote:What are people thinking about next year for an Oubre extension? Are teams projected to have a ton of cap space? I’d hate to lose Oubre, but with so much money committed to John, Bradley and Otto I just don’t see how we could afford him.

Yes to lots of teams having cap space, I count 1/2 the league at 80M and under:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/


Including Cap holds, I had 16 teams with a max spot.. and 3-4 with over 60M
Thats why you see so many FA's take 1 year deals.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1157 » by Rafael122 » Mon Jul 9, 2018 2:07 pm

prime1time wrote:What are people thinking about next year for an Oubre extension? Are teams projected to have a ton of cap space? I’d hate to lose Oubre, but with so much money committed to John, Bradley and Otto I just don’t see how we could afford him.


He's gonna get at least the full MLE and top off at $12 million per year if he really breaks out this season. As others have said, more teams will have cap space next summer so there's gonna be more competition.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1158 » by FAH1223 » Mon Sep 3, 2018 3:47 pm

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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1159 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:52 am

Let the record show that I’m bullish on Oubre.

Last year, he showed flashes of being a dominant player, but was inconsistent then fell off significantly.

This is the year he takes the leap to consistency. Book it.
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Re: Kelly Oubre 

Post#1160 » by nate33 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:24 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:Let the record show that I’m bullish on Oubre.

Last year, he showed flashes of being a dominant player, but was inconsistent then fell off significantly.

This is the year he takes the leap to consistency. Book it.

Seconded!

Oubre was really, really impressive over the first half of the season - showing much more ability to go right and the ability to create shots in isolation with no other shot creators around him to draw defensive attention. He also hit 39.5% of his 3-point attempts over the first 50 gams of the season.

He then hit a horrific shooting slump which may have had something to do with his anxiety/depression issues. But take away that mid-season shooting slump, and he's a rock solid player with plenty more upside.

Defensively, he's a mixed bag. He still gambles too much, but he's getting much better and he is very disruptive at the point of attack. He can easily switch 1 through 4, doing a better job on the opposition's PG than Porter or Morris can. He obviously has the length and athleticism to be a top tier defender and will certainly get somewhat better as his instincts for the game improve with experience.

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