Discuss Ernie Grunfeld's GM skills here (Part 2)

[closg00]

When we drafted Brad we also needed a SG, perfect fit. When we drafted Otto, we needed a SF, perfect fit. Wall, Ball & Otto were easy calls and they all fit positions of need, easy work for Ernie there.

Wizards didn't need a small forward. They had Webster coming off a career season and Trevor Ariza. They did need a center. And that's why they traded a first rounder for Gortat a few months later.

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Thank you. Zeller, Len, and Noel were widely preferred by many people with us just bringing back Ariza.
2 way wings that can spread the floor are the prize possessions in the modern NBA... And only GS and Boston appear to be clearly better in that regard.

This is false
viewtopic.php?t=1252608

Ariza (who was expiring) would leave the next year and Webster went down the next year. Porter was the consensus pick for us that year and a good fit for development to fill Ariza/Webster's shoes and he did.

[Kanyewest]

Wizards didn't need a small forward. They had Webster coming off a career season and Trevor Ariza. They did need a center. And that's why they traded a first rounder for Gortat a few months later.

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Thank you. Zeller, Len, and Noel were widely preferred by many people with us just bringing back Ariza.
2 way wings that can spread the floor are the prize possessions in the modern NBA... And only GS and Boston appear to be clearly better in that regard.

This is false
viewtopic.php?t=1252608

Ariza (who was expiring) would leave the next year and Webster went down the next year. Porter was the consensus pick for us that year and a good fit for development to fill Ariza/Webster's shoes and he did.

Nerlens Noel isn't on that poll.

How come no Noel?

I think he's #1 on most Wiz fans list but IMO he's an unrealistic draft target.

Also, the Wizards did give Webster a 4 year $22 million deal. Like Ariza, Okafor was on an expiring deal. Ultimately, the Washington front office saw Porter as the best player available.

[closg00]

Agree that they saw Porter as BPA

[AFM]

When do we give Ernie credit for the Oubre pick?

Who here even knew who Oubre was on draft night?

[Kanyewest]

When do we give Ernie credit for the Oubre pick?

Who here even knew who Oubre was on draft night?

Did you see his shoes?

[montestewart]

When do we give Ernie credit for the Oubre pick?

Who here even knew who Oubre was on draft night?

Quit provoking PIF

[pinkman7382]

When do we give Ernie credit for the Oubre pick?

Who here even knew who Oubre was on draft night?

I honestly though Oubre would go in top 12. When they traded up I thought it might have been for Vaughn.

[montestewart]

When do we give Ernie credit for the Oubre pick?

Who here even knew who Oubre was on draft night?

I honestly though Oubre would go in top 12. When they traded up I thought it might have been for Vaughn.

yeah, I don't even follow college ball and I knew who Oubre was. He got plenty of pre-draft coverage. I wanted Portis at 19 but I was OK with the Oubre pick at the time. Oubre is one of EGgo's success stories, and could still become his smartest move.

[payitforward]

Wizards didn't need a small forward. They had Webster coming off a career season and Trevor Ariza. They did need a center. And that's why they traded a first rounder for Gortat a few months later.

Sorry, no. Okafor had had a terrific season. We only traded for Gortat b/c he got injured just before the beginning of the season, & we had no backup plan.

You're right about Webster/Ariza of course. But, we picked Porter as BPA, which is the right way to make any draft pick -- & certainly near the top of the draft!

[Kanyewest]

Wizards didn't need a small forward. They had Webster coming off a career season and Trevor Ariza. They did need a center. And that's why they traded a first rounder for Gortat a few months later.

Sorry, no. Okafor had had a terrific season. We only traded for Gortat b/c he got injured just before the beginning of the season, & we had no backup plan.

You're right about Webster/Ariza of course. But, we picked Porter as BPA, which is the right way to make any draft pick -- & certainly near the top of the draft!

Okafor was alright but the Wizards needed an upgrade at that position more at the time given that Okafor showed he was injury prone having played 27 games the previous season, and older than both Ariza and Webster, who were both younger. The backups at the time included Kevin Seraphin and Jason Collins.

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[FAH1223]

Ernie still needs to go.

[P'Oed]

The shortened version of this conversation all comes down to this: this current team's cieling is 2 or 3 wins in the second round of the playoffs higher than the Big 3 (Caron, Gil and Tawn) teams. Add any player that might fit into their cap situation and the needle doesn't move very much at all. Ernie blew it up after Gungate and we're essentially right back in 2006 although this time, you're probably looking at Boston knocking us out of the playoffs 3 times in a row instead of Cleveland.

The "reserve the purse for Durant" off-season set the team back at least 5 years. Whiffing on Durant and Horford and consequently trying to show the fanbase that they're willing to open the wallet in free agency by grabbing Mahimi, Smith, Nicholson and Burke (through a trade) would've been enough to get any GM fired. But nope, not Ernie.

This might be the most hopeless I've felt as a Wizards fan, and that's saying a lot. I have only watched one game beginning to end this year which, for me, is unusual. The ONLY thing that could give me one of those Ernie trade deadline "jolts" would be if Ted closed the door on this 14-year era and at least showed the fans that the franchise has a pulse. But round and round we go. The shield of "loyalty and consistency" that Ted uses as an excuse will forever keep the franchise from acquiring a new vision and direction.

If only media in this area loved tearing apart Ernie as much as they do Bruce Allen and everything Redskins.

[payitforward]

Wizards didn't need a small forward. They had Webster coming off a career season and Trevor Ariza. They did need a center. And that's why they traded a first rounder for Gortat a few months later.

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Thank you. Zeller, Len, and Noel were widely preferred by many people with us just bringing back Ariza.
2 way wings that can spread the floor are the prize possessions in the modern NBA... And only GS and Boston appear to be clearly better in that regard.

This is false
viewtopic.php?t=1252608

Ariza (who was expiring) would leave the next year and Webster went down the next year. Porter was the consensus pick for us that year and a good fit for development to fill Ariza/Webster's shoes and he did.

No.

Not many people thought Ariza would leave, & no one could have known Webster would go down the following year -- how could that be relevant?!?

& Noel wasn't even on the poll, b/c most people here had him going #1. From that thread:

This was the only official poll of the board, Olidipo has two votes, other (KO?) only has 1 vote.

Various posts prior to the draft tell me that a lot of people would have picked Noel, but when this poll first went up, many/most assumed he'd already be gone. I voted trade early, but by draft day I was thinking Noel or Porter if Noel was gone, or just pick Porter and skip the risk.

As Monte points out, those people would have *loved* to grab him over Porter! That's true by definition: if you think a guy is the best player in the draft & will go #1, then of course you'd want him the most, & if 2 teams stupidly pass on him of course you'd grab him. That's like trading your #3 pick straight up for the #1 pick the day before the draft -- of course you would do that in every case!

IOW, "Porter was the consensus pick" represents no more than the expectation that the "better" pick -- Noel -- would be gone.

[payitforward]

Ooops, I see that Kanye had already made more or less the same points I just made -- sorry.

[gtn130]

Otto Porter becoming an elite 3pt shooter was not something anyone could have predicted - and nobody was predicting that at the time. People thought Otto was going to be Tayshaun Prince with less length.

The 2013 draft was historically bad even with guys like Giannis and Gobert coming out of nowhere. The Wizards made the safest pick on the board, taking a guy with extremely limited upside at #3, and ended up getting super lucky that Otto has hit at the absolute apex of his range.

[payitforward]

Wizards didn't need a small forward. ...They did need a center. And that's why they traded a first rounder for Gortat a few months later.

Sorry, no. Okafor had had a terrific season. We only traded for Gortat b/c he got injured just before the beginning of the season, & we had no backup plan....

Okafor was alright but the Wizards needed an upgrade at that position more at the time given that Okafor showed he was injury prone having played 27 games the previous season, and older than both Ariza and Webster, who were both younger. The backups at the time included Kevin Seraphin and Jason Collins.

We traded for Gortat a day or so before the season began. We only did it, b/c Okafor had just suffered an injury that meant he wouldn't play at all that season & maybe never play again period. We absolutely did not do it, b/c Ernie thought we "needed an upgrade at that position."

Now, maybe we're talking at cross purposes here. I'm talking about what Ernie did & why. You may be expressing your own opinion that in fact we needed a Center in the 2013 draft.

In that case, do you think we could have somehow traded our #3 pick for the #15 & #23 picks? That way we could have gotten the Greek freak & Rudy Gobert!

[gtn130]

Otto Porter becoming an elite 3pt shooter was not something anyone could have predicted - and nobody was predicting that at the time. People thought Otto was going to be Tayshaun Prince with less length.

The 2013 draft was historically bad even with guys like Giannis and Gobert coming out of nowhere. The Wizards made the safest pick on the board, taking a guy with extremely limited upside at #3, and ended up getting super lucky that Otto has hit at the absolute apex of his range.

To add to this, I remember when Nerlens Noel was available at #3, that's who I wanted by a huge margin. An elite rim protector is worth more than Porter even today. It's hard to predict Noel becoming a misanthrope and Porter becoming one of the best 3pt shooters in the league.

[Kanyewest]

Sorry, no. Okafor had had a terrific season. We only traded for Gortat b/c he got injured just before the beginning of the season, & we had no backup plan....

Okafor was alright but the Wizards needed an upgrade at that position more at the time given that Okafor showed he was injury prone having played 27 games the previous season, and older than both Ariza and Webster, who were both younger. The backups at the time included Kevin Seraphin and Jason Collins.

We traded for Gortat a day or so before the season began. We only did it, b/c Okafor had just suffered an injury that meant he wouldn't play at all that season & maybe never play again period. We absolutely did not do it, b/c Ernie thought we "needed an upgrade at that position."

Now, maybe we're talking at cross purposes here. I'm talking about what Ernie did & why. You may be expressing your own opinion that in fact we needed a Center in the 2013 draft.

In that case, do you think we could have somehow traded our #3 pick for the #15 & #23 picks? That way we could have gotten the Greek freak & Rudy Gobert!

I'm trying to give Ernie some credit for taking Otto even though Ariza was on the roster and apparently they were looking to bring back Webster. You are right that Okafor was more than a serviceable center.

Otto was my first choice. Oladipo was a close second, given that Washington already had Beal. Noel's lack of size, offensive game, and injury concerns with Washington's medical staff scared me.

IIRC, Giannis was like 6th or 7th in my rankings. I was content with picking Porter at the time though.

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[tontoz]

Webster was a UFA the summer we drafted Porter. We resigned Webster to that big deal AFTER we drafted Porter (and with Ariza still under contract obviously).

Yet another dumb move by EG. We desperately needed a big and had limited funds to get one. Spending that money on webster was idiotic.

[Kanyewest]

Webster didn't work out. He did have a really good season though and I can understand why Washington wanted to bring him back. That appeared to be the going rate of similar swingmen that offseason including Kyle Korver (obviously worked out much better but was 32), Mike Dunleavy, and Kevin martin. At least the final year of his contract was non-guaranteed. But yeah, Washington may have been best served to go after a center (although they would have needed a swingman as well since Otto missed most of that season).