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Continued from here:

Guns suck.

Noticed you guys have a political discussion thread over here. I don't generally post on other peoples boards, but I might over here every so often if it doesn't bother anybody.

Noticed gun control is a hot topic. My question would be; what is realistic gun control policy that could pass and also help to lower homicide by firearm rate?

I don't see an all out firearm ban happening in our lifetime. Rifles account for a very small percentage of homicides and are one of the most popular firearms for hunting and self defense. Background checks are theoretically a good thing, but not realistic for all private sales, gifts, inheritance etc. Handguns are the biggest culprit but are the most popular for self defense.

Is there a answer? Violent crime rates are already dropping, should we mess with a system that is trending towards a safer society?

Zonkerbl wrote:My problem with this proposal is it only addresses a small part of the problems guns present. It won't stop people without a criminal record or history of mental illness from legally purchasing guns and then going on a murder spree. It won't stop people from sticking their legally purchased handgun in their mouth and pulling the trigger.

Understand, I'd have zero problem with guns being outright banned. That's unrealistic in any kind of meaningful time period. If I could get the first three of those proposals, plus a bio-passport on all NEW firearms, I'd do it.

The way I would negotiate a gun ban is to start out saying all guns should be banned. If you can convince me that there is a safe way to make exceptions that don't create huge loopholes nullifying the whole purpose of the ban then I would consider them.

There is absolutely no reason to be negotiating from a position of weakness on banning guns. It is obvious that being awash in guns is a huge problem for this country and we have to do something to drastically reduce their prevalence. A gun ban will happen the moment our politicians have the balls to propose it.

Zonkerbl wrote:The way I would negotiate a gun ban is to start out saying all guns should be banned. If you can convince me that there is a safe way to make exceptions that don't create huge loopholes nullifying the whole purpose of the ban then I would consider them.

There is absolutely no reason to be negotiating from a position of weakness on banning guns. It is obvious that being awash in guns is a huge problem for this country and we have to do something to drastically reduce their prevalence. A gun ban will happen the moment our politicians have the balls to propose it.

It would appear that the trend is working against you despite the recent media attention on mass shootings. From CNN in October:



We also had a record number of guns purchased on Black Friday.

I oppose stricter gun control laws. I think they're a red herring, not worth expending political capital over. The only thing that will really solve the problem is an outright ban.

No one knows what the national opinion on an outright ban would be because we're all terrified of asking the question. The terrorists have won.

Trippinskarlo wrote:Noticed you guys have a political discussion thread over here. I don't generally post on other peoples boards, but I might over here every so often if it doesn't bother anybody.

Noticed gun control is a hot topic. My question would be; what is realistic gun control policy that could pass and also help to lower homicide by firearm rate?

I don't see an all out firearm ban happening in our lifetime. Rifles account for a very small percentage of homicides and are one of the most popular firearms for hunting and self defense. Background checks are theoretically a good thing, but not realistic for all private sales, gifts, inheritance etc. Handguns are the biggest culprit but are the most popular for self defense.

Is there a answer? Violent crime rates are already dropping, should we mess with a system that is trending towards a safer society?

I don't think there's much we can do, Trippinskarlo. I think most of this is just frustration. When people die, the response is to Do Something. But when you look at the details, there really isn't anything legislatively that we can do that will make much difference. There are probably some minor things we can do at the margins like tightening the gun show loopholes, but I really don't think that will matter much.

And feel free to post in our politics thread.

Zonkerbl wrote:I oppose stricter gun control laws. I think they're a red herring, not worth expending political capital over. The only thing that will really solve the problem is an outright ban.

No one knows what the national opinion on an outright ban would be because we're all terrified of asking the question. The terrorists have won.

Oh, I think we know full well what the national opinion on an outright ban would be. It would be supported by well less than 50%. Probably less than 30%.

There is a solution. Ban the manufacture and import of guns.

nate33 wrote:

Zonkerbl wrote:I oppose stricter gun control laws. I think they're a red herring, not worth expending political capital over. The only thing that will really solve the problem is an outright ban.

No one knows what the national opinion on an outright ban would be because we're all terrified of asking the question. The terrorists have won.

Oh, I think we know full well what the national opinion on an outright ban would be. It would be supported by well less than 50%. Probably less than 30%.

That's BS. Nobody knows the answer to that question. We are not nearly as stupid as you think we are Nate.

Kind of interesting to learn the leading causes of death.

The 25 Most Common Causes of Death

25: Exposure to excessive natural cold
Odds of dying: 1 in 7,399
People exposed to very cold temperatures die from hypothermia, which occurs when the core body temperature drops from the normal range of 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit (37 degrees Celsius) to below 95 degrees Fahrenheit (35 degrees Celsius). Interestingly, Florida, one of the warmest states in the U.S., has hundreds of cases of hypothermia every year because residents are not as well prepared for cold weather when it comes, especially out at sea.

#24: Exposure to excessive natural heat
Odds of dying: 1 in 6,174
Apparently hot and cold weather are almost equally dangerous. Few people die from direct sun exposure, but rather from heatstroke, which occurs when the body temperature rises above 105 degrees Fahrenheit (40.5 degrees Celsius). You are about 100 times more likely to die from excessive natural heat or cold than from excessive heat or cold of man-made origin (odds are 1 in 639,989), like freezers and saunas.

#23: Fall from a building
Odds of dying: 1 in 6,115
For most people skydiving is a risky, scary adventure, but statistically you are much more likely to die from a fall off a building at some point in your life. According to the United States Parachute Association, about 3 million jumps took place in 2010, but there were only 21 deaths. That's an average of 0.007 deaths per thousand jumps.

#22: Firearms discharge
Odds of dying: 1 in 5,981
In 2006, there were 862 undetermined/unintentional firearm deaths. Americans are statistically much more likely to die from firearms discharge than people in comparable countries. Total firearm-related deaths are eight times higher in the U.S. than in economic counterparts in other parts of the world, like Canada, England and France.

#21: Air and space transport accidents
Odds of dying: 1 in 5,862
Anyone who is afraid of flying on an airplane but isn't worried about driving every day should check the facts. Statistically, 1 out of every 5,862 people will die in aviation-related accidents while 1 in every 272 people will die in an automobile accident.

#20: Contact with machinery
Odds of dying: 1 in 5,189
People with arachnophobia should know that they are almost 200 times more likely to die from contact with machinery than contact with venomous spiders, where the odds are almost 1 in a million. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, types of machinery likely to cause injury or death include heating, cooling and cleaning, construction, logging, mining and special materials machinery.

#19: Choking on food
Odds of dying: 1 in 4,404
You should be more worried about the food you eat than having an irrational fear, like dying in a terrorist attack. The truth is that only 1 in 25 million people will be killed in a terrorist attack aboard a commercial airliner, yet 1 in 4,404 people will die via asphyxiation from choking on food, so you are better off being afraid of your brunch.

#18: Fall involving bed, chair or other furniture
Odds of dying: 1 in 4,238
Beds, couches and furniture exist in our homes to provide personal comfort and relaxation, but they are associated with death far more often than most would think. Falls are the leading cause of death among people over the age of 65. A person is far more likely to die falling out of bed, a chair or other furniture at home than traveling on a railway, where the odds are 1 in 225,879.

#17: Bicycle accident
Odds of dying: 1 in 4,147
In 2009, 630 bicyclists were killed, and a whopping 51,000 were injured in accidents. Most of these deaths occurred in urban areas, where there are more cars and traffic congestion. The number one thing you can do to reduce your risk? Wear a helmet!

#16: ATV or off-road vehicle accident
Odds of dying: 1 in 3,579
In 2009, there were 376 reported ATV-related deaths and 131,900 emergency room visits. This is a steady decline from 2008, where there were 616 reported deaths and 135,100 emergency room visits. The reason ATV-related deaths have declined is thanks to rider safety education and parental supervision.

#15: Complications of medical and surgical care
Odds of dying: 1 in 1,523
According to the National Hospital Discharge Survey, 45 million surgeries were performed in 2007, so it's a good thing that only 1 in 1,523 people will die from medical or surgical complications. You are more than twice as likely to die from complications of medical and surgical care than in an ATV or off-road vehicle accident; the largest gap in odds on this list.

#14: Exposure to smoke, fire and flames
Odds of dying: 1 in 1,235
In a burning house or building, you are actually more likely to die from smoke inhalation than burning from flames or heat. People have about three minutes to get out of a burning structure before dying from smoke inhalation.

#13: Accidental drowning and submersion
Odds of dying: 1 in 1,073
In the U.S., there were 3,443 fatal unintentional drownings in 2007. Males were 3.7 times more likely to die from drowning than females, because they are more likely to engage in reckless behavior. Children under the age of 14 accounted for one-fifth of these deaths from drowning.

#12: Motorcycle accident
Odds of dying: 1 in 802
It's no surprise that motorcycle accidents are on this list. Riding a motorcycle is an infamously dangerous activity. The Governors Highway Safety Association (GHSA) reports that 4,762 motorcycle deaths occurred in 2009, a 10 percent decline from 2008.

#11: Pedestrian accident
Odds of dying: 1 in 623
But trading two wheels for two feet is not any safer. Statistically, you are better off riding a motorcycle than walking on a busy street. The three U.S. cities with the most pedestrian fatalities per 100,000 residents every year are Atlanta, Ga., with 10.97, Detroit, Mich., with 10.31 and Los Angeles, Calif., with 7.64. Pedestrian fatalities are more likely to occur in large cities with heavy traffic.

#10: Assault by firearm
Odds of dying: 1 in 300
America is the gun violence capital of the world. According to FBI crime statistics, there were 9,146 murders by firearm in 2009. Like death by accidental gun discharge, death rates for assault by firearm in the U.S. are also disproportionate to similar countries. It has the highest rate of firearm deaths among 25 high-income nations and more disturbingly, the overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children under age 15 is 12 times higher than the death rates of these 25 high-income nations combined.

#9: Exposure to narcotics and hallucinogens
Odds of dying: 1 in 289
Prescription opioid painkillers like Oxycontin and Percocet are now the most dangerous narcotics in America. Experts from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the University of North Carolina and Duke University Medical Center report that in 2007, there were more unintentional deaths from prescription opioid pain killers than overdose deaths from heroin and cocaine combined. Even alcohol, a substance well-known for its hazardous effects when consumed in large quantities, doesn't compare to the dangers that prescription opioids pose. The odds of dying from alcohol poisoning are 1 in 10,909.

#8: Car accident
Odds of dying: 1 in 272
Car accidents are a major area of concern in the U.S. and teenage drivers are at the root of the problem. In 2009, the CDC reported that 3,000 teens ages 15 to 19 were killed in automobile accidents and 350,000 were treated in emergency rooms because of car accidents. While young people ages 15 to 24 comprise 14 percent of the population, they account for 30 percent of car accidents.

#7: Falls
Odds of dying: 1 in 184
This category includes statistical data from #18, the category for deaths from falling off a bed, chair or other furniture and #23, the category for people falling off a building, along with any other type of unintentional fall. In 2008, 22,631 Americans died from unintentional falls, which equates to 7.5 people per 100,000.

#6: Accidental poisoning and drug overdose
Odds of dying: 1 in 139
There were 29,846 deaths from unintentional poisoning in 2007 and 40,059 poisoning deaths total. Ninety-seven percent of these deaths are caused by drug overdoses. Not surprisingly, of all the accidental poisoning deaths from drug overdoses, narcotics (#9 on the list) were the most common inducers, and specifically opioids and benzodiazepenes (Valium) took the most lives.

#5: Intentional self harm
Odds of dying: 1 in 115
A person died from committing suicide every 15 minutes in the U.S. in 2007, the most recent year for which data was available. Ninety percent of people who die by suicide have a psychiatric disorder at the time of their death. When attempted, a suicide is not statistically likely to be successful. An estimated 8 to 25 suicide attempts occur for every death. Four male suicides occur for every one female suicide, but three times as many females attempt suicide. The reason is that men choose more lethal methods, like hanging and shooting themselves, than women.

#4: All types of land vehicle accidents
Odds of dying: 1 in 85
This category is similar to car and ATV accidents; it simply combines death rates from ATV and off-road vehicle accidents (#16), motorcycle accidents (#12), car accidents (#8) and any other type of land vehicles, like tractors, tanks and go-karts. Americans are 1,800 times more likely to die in a land vehicle accident than an earthquake, where the odds are 1 in 153,597.

#3: Stroke
Odds of dying: 1 in 28
Sadly for Americans, there is a high statistical chance of dying from a stroke. Over 143,579 people die each year from stroke in the United States. Risk factors for suffering a stroke include high cholesterol, high blood pressure, being age 55 or older, being overweight, physical inactivity, binge drinking, drug use and cigarette smoking.

#2: Cancer
Odds of dying: 1 in 7
Cancer is the second-leading cause of death in the U.S. Americans are four times more likely to die from cancer than stroke, the third entry on this list. There are many different types of cancer, and some are more likely to occur than others. According to the American Cancer Society, lung cancer was the most common and deadliest form of cancer in 2010, with 222,520 cases and 157,300 deaths. Prostate andbreast cancer were second and third on the list, respectively.

#1: Heart disease
Odds of dying: 1 in 6
Heart disease, which is slightly more likely to result in death than cancer, is the most common cause of death in America. The good news is that the mortality rate for heart disease is decreasing. Between 1997 and 2007, deaths from heart disease fell 28 percent. During the same period, however, the number of heart procedures performed in hospitals rose 27 percent. This means that quality of care is improving, but our lifestyles are getting worse.

Chris Jagger is a journalism graduate from California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo.
Published: June 24, 2011
http://www.medhelp.org/general-health/articles/The-25-Most-Common-Causes-of-Death/193?page=1

Hmm. I didn't realize that drug overdose and falls were more common that car accidents.

Trippinskarlo wrote:Noticed you guys have a political discussion thread over here. I don't generally post on other peoples boards, but I might over here every so often if it doesn't bother anybody.

Noticed gun control is a hot topic. My question would be; what is realistic gun control policy that could pass and also help to lower homicide by firearm rate?

I don't see an all out firearm ban happening in our lifetime. Rifles account for a very small percentage of homicides and are one of the most popular firearms for hunting and self defense. Background checks are theoretically a good thing, but not realistic for all private sales, gifts, inheritance etc. Handguns are the biggest culprit but are the most popular for self defense.

Is there a answer? Violent crime rates are already dropping, should we mess with a system that is trending towards a safer society?

Trippin - I believe I read somewhere that most felons involved in gun related violence grew up in single parent households. Perhaps the most important thing we could do to reduce gun violence is for our leaders and press to repeat over and over and over....... Don't have babies out of wedlock

Zonkerbl wrote:The way I would negotiate a gun ban is to start out saying all guns should be banned. If you can convince me that there is a safe way to make exceptions that don't create huge loopholes nullifying the whole purpose of the ban then I would consider them.

There is absolutely no reason to be negotiating from a position of weakness on banning guns. It is obvious that being awash in guns is a huge problem for this country and we have to do something to drastically reduce their prevalence. A gun ban will happen the moment our politicians have the balls to propose it.

This reminds me of the Rs in the house

Interesting list Popper. Get rid of guns, cars, bikes & drugs and we would all be better off. hmmm, wait...

dckingsfan wrote:Interesting list Popper. Get rid of guns, cars, bikes & drugs and we would all be better off. hmmm, wait…

There's still the risk of dying of embarrassment when you show up to a function in the same attire as millie is wearing.

popper wrote:
Trippin - I believe I read somewhere that most felons involved in gun related violence grew up in single parent households. Perhaps the most important thing we could do to reduce gun violence is for our leaders and press to repeat over and over and over....... Don't have babies out of wedlock

Saying "Don't have babies out of wedlock" is a bit too simplistic when it comes to addressing the problems stemming from our violent society. There are responsible parents--male and female--who have chosen to have children out of wedlock (or are divorced or separated) who are doing an excellent job of raising their children. And then there are married couples who have raised kids that turn into mass murderers. There's a lot that goes into why an individual turns to a life of violence. You can't simply blame it on unmarried people with children.

BTW, I like a lot the 4 pt. plan that TSW has proposed for helping to stem gun violence. Sounds like a reasonable start to me.

montestewart wrote:

dckingsfan wrote:Interesting list Popper. Get rid of guns, cars, bikes & drugs and we would all be better off. hmmm, wait…

There's still the risk of dying of embarrassment when you show up to a function in the same attire as millie is wearing.

Flip flops and no pants -- and the function is at Panera