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Bradley Beal - Part III

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1021 » by queridiculo » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:27 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
That way he locks in guaranteed max money now , and also prevents trade rumors distractions from hanging over his name constantly . And he also maintains leverage because by 2021 he can start threatening to take his 2023 opt-out, thus applying pressure on the organization to either make moves or trade him


He's got absolutely nothing to gain from signing an extension now, that same offer will be there next year even if he doesn't qualify for the supermax.

It's foolish to go all in now when so much is unsettled.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1022 » by nate33 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:05 pm

Expanding on Rafael122's post above:

Beal is a 7-year vet under contract through his 9th season. He is currently making a 25% max contract.

He has 4 options:

1. Sign a 3-year extension now. The extension will be a 30% max extension keeping him under contract until 2024, which will be his 12th season. He'll make roughly $105M in those 3 years. This deal gives him maximum financial security in case of injury.

2. Wait until 2020 and sign an extension. If he makes All-NBA this year he will be eligible for a 35% max extension for 3 years, keeping him under contract until 2024 but allowing to make roughly $122M more over those 3 years. If he doesn't make All-NBA, he can still sign the 30% max extension, or he can wait another year.

3. Wait until 2021 and sign a 1+1 with the Wizards. If he makes All NBA in 2020-21, he can sign a 5-year supermax with the Wizards in 2021. If he doesn't, he can sign a 1+1 (second year player option) with the Wizards and become a free agent the following year when he is eligible for a 35% max from any team that acquires him in free agency.

4. Wait until 2021 and sign with a new team. He'll presumably sign at least a 3 year deal (giving his new team Bird Rights) which will only be a 30% max equaling $105M in those 3 years. He actually might make slightly less because his annual raises will be capped at 5% and not 8%. But we're talking only a $2-3M difference so it's not a huge consideration. This option allows him to go elsewhere, but it provides the least total money and the least financial security in case of injury.

Rafael122 makes a good point that All-NBA is unlikely next year. Curry, Harden, Lillard and Kyrie are locks, barring injury. He'll have to beat out all but one of Kemba, Simmons, Butler, Westbrook, McCullough, Russell, Fox and anybody else I haven't thought of yet. And he'll have to do so while on a very bad team with maybe 30 wins.

Frankly, I don't know what makes the most sense. He doesn't really have much to lose by choosing Option 2 over Option 1, but he doesn't have much to gain either since All-NBA is so unlikely.

I'm starting to think that Option 3 makes a lot of sense, if he's willing to accept the injury risk. Wait until 2021 and then sign a 1+1 contract. In 2022, he'll be an unrestricted free agent eligible for a 35% supermax from any team, which gives him a lot of options. And if Bryant, Hachimura, Brown and our 2020 pick pan out to be studs, he'll still have the option to stay in DC. But however it plays out, he'll get that 35% contract as soon as possible.

The good news is that Option 4 seems like the least advantageous deal of all of them. And in all other scenarios, Beal will be with us for at least 3 more years, not just 2.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1023 » by prime1time » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:16 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
prime1time wrote:
80sballboy wrote:Ultimately, they are just playing to be competitive and unless they get lucky in the draft, it will be tough to go far with Beal, Wall and company. But, while I disagree with the way they've treated their broadcast team, I think it's good PR to offer Beal as much as they can. He's a good guy, bordering on a great player and while I don't think he'll re-sign, you might as well try to offer him the max. If he takes it, great. If not, you have to start finding out what you can get for him in a deal. There's no rush though.



I disagree. Keeping Beal is the quickest way to building a contender. The other option is to rebuild and start over with no strong veteran presence to help the younger guys. How good can Beal be? This is a two star league. If you think Beal can be a star, then you keep him and figure out a way to get another. It really is that simple.



I HAVE TO SAY, I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE, P1T.

Primarily because your team has had two stars for years now and has never made it past the 2nd round.

Because of mediocre coaching, poor personnel decisions, bad salary cap management, inept drafting -- your squad has had elite players but not elite results.

And with limited cap space for the forseeable future, a reset seems inevitable for the franchise to get past its current state.

Just having elite players isn't enough. Stock up on young talent and future draft picks, clear cap space and rebuild the right way.

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. This has already been debated ad nauseam here. If you're looking for a back and forth about the decision I've already done it and don't care to beat a dead horse.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1024 » by DCZards » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:17 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
prime1time wrote:
80sballboy wrote:Ultimately, they are just playing to be competitive and unless they get lucky in the draft, it will be tough to go far with Beal, Wall and company. But, while I disagree with the way they've treated their broadcast team, I think it's good PR to offer Beal as much as they can. He's a good guy, bordering on a great player and while I don't think he'll re-sign, you might as well try to offer him the max. If he takes it, great. If not, you have to start finding out what you can get for him in a deal. There's no rush though.



I disagree. Keeping Beal is the quickest way to building a contender. The other option is to rebuild and start over with no strong veteran presence to help the younger guys. How good can Beal be? This is a two star league. If you think Beal can be a star, then you keep him and figure out a way to get another. It really is that simple.



I HAVE TO SAY, I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE, P1T.

Primarily because your team has had two stars for years now and has never made it past the 2nd round.

Because of mediocre coaching, poor personnel decisions, bad salary cap management, inept drafting -- your squad has had elite players but not elite results.

And with limited cap space for the forseeable future, a reset seems inevitable for the franchise to get past its current state.

Just having elite players isn't enough. Stock up on young talent and future draft picks, clear cap space and rebuild the right way.


The Zards had two stars...and one of the NBA's most mediocre supporting casts. I suggest you look at how bad the Zards bench was when they won 49 games in the 2016-17 season. It's amazing they won that many games.

The 2020-21 season will, hopefully, feature two healthy stars in Beal & Wall, young and developing talent in Bryant, Rui and Brown, and a 2020 lottery pick. In addition, Ian Mahinmi's cumbersome salary will be off the books by then.

Yes, just having elite players like Beal isn't enough but without elite players like him you're screwed.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1025 » by prime1time » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:26 pm

nate33 wrote:Expanding on Rafael122's post above:

Beal is a 7-year vet under contract through his 9th season. He is currently making a 25% max contract.

He has 4 options:

1. Sign a 3-year extension now. The extension will be a 30% max extension keeping him under contract until 2024, which will be his 12th season. He'll make roughly $105M in those 3 years. This deal gives him maximum financial security in case of injury.

2. Wait until 2020 and sign an extension. If he makes All-NBA this year he will be eligible for a 35% max extension for 3 years, keeping him under contract until 2024 but allowing to make roughly $122M more over those 3 years. If he doesn't make All-NBA, he can still sign the 30% max extension, or he can wait another year.

3. Wait until 2021 and resign with the Wizards. If he makes All NBA in 2020-21, he can sign a 5-year supermax with the Wizards in 2021. If he doesn't, he can sign a 1+1 with the Wizards and become a free agent the following year when he is eligible for a 35% max from anyone.

4. Wait until 2021 and sign with a new team. He'll presumably sign at least a 3 year deal (giving his new team Bird Rights) which will only be a 30% max equaling $105M in those 3 years. He actually might make slightly less because his annual raises will be capped at 5% and not 8%. But we're talking only a $2-3M difference so it's not a huge consideration. This option allows him to go elsewhere, but it provides the least total money and the least financial security in case of injury.

Rafael122 makes a good point that All-NBA is unlikely next year. Curry, Harden, Lillard and Kyrie are locks, barring injury. He'll have to beat out all but one of Kemba, Simmons, Butler, Westbrook, McCullough, Russell, Fox and anybody else I haven't thought of yet. And he'll have to do so while on a very bad team with maybe 30 wins.

Frankly, I don't know what makes the most sense. He doesn't really have much to lose by choosing Option 2 over Option 1, but he doesn't have much to gain either since All-NBA is so unlikely.

I'm honestly starting to think that Option 3 makes some sense, if he's willing to accept the injury risk. Don't resign now or next year unless me makes All-NBA. Wait until 2021 and then sign a 1+1 contract. In 2022, he'll be an unrestricted free agent eligible for a 35% supermax from any team, which gives him a lot of options. And if Bryant, Hachimura, Brown and our 2020 pick pan out to be studs, he'll still have the option to stay put.

The good news is that Option 4 seems like the least advantageous deal of all of them. In all other scenarios, Beal will be with us for at least 3 more years, not 2.

I don't agree that All-NBA Is unlikely. I think Beal is poised to get even better next year. If you look past the games we were clearly tanking, after Wall went down Beal averaged 28, 6 and 5. And I expect him to get better. Also, this year, he'll have teammates that accept their roles. We need to start putting more respect on Beal's name. IMO, he's right next to Lillard and Kyrie. The only argument you can make is that our record will be bad so those other guys will win by default. But I think we have a chance to squeak into the playoffs. Regardless, Beal has a great shot at making an All-NBA team. It was a shame that he didn't make it this year.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1026 » by Illmatic12 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:51 pm

queridiculo wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
That way he locks in guaranteed max money now , and also prevents trade rumors distractions from hanging over his name constantly . And he also maintains leverage because by 2021 he can start threatening to take his 2023 opt-out, thus applying pressure on the organization to either make moves or trade him


He's got absolutely nothing to gain from signing an extension now, that same offer will be there next year even if he doesn't qualify for the supermax.

It's foolish to go all in now when so much is unsettled.

He locks in guaranteed money which insures him against any freak injury. That’s what he’s gaining by signing it now.

Brad just saw his own teammate suffer a career-altering injury. If Wall hadn’t taken the money at that time it would be another Demarcus Cousins story right now.

There could be other peripheral motivations to sign it now but that’s the main one.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1027 » by Illmatic12 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:55 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
prime1time wrote:
80sballboy wrote:Ultimately, they are just playing to be competitive and unless they get lucky in the draft, it will be tough to go far with Beal, Wall and company. But, while I disagree with the way they've treated their broadcast team, I think it's good PR to offer Beal as much as they can. He's a good guy, bordering on a great player and while I don't think he'll re-sign, you might as well try to offer him the max. If he takes it, great. If not, you have to start finding out what you can get for him in a deal. There's no rush though.



I disagree. Keeping Beal is the quickest way to building a contender. The other option is to rebuild and start over with no strong veteran presence to help the younger guys. How good can Beal be? This is a two star league. If you think Beal can be a star, then you keep him and figure out a way to get another. It really is that simple.



I HAVE TO SAY, I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE, P1T.

Primarily because your team has had two stars for years now and has never made it past the 2nd round.

Because of mediocre coaching, poor personnel decisions, bad salary cap management, inept drafting -- your squad has had elite players but not elite results.

And with limited cap space for the forseeable future, a reset seems inevitable for the franchise to get past its current state.

Just having elite players isn't enough. Stock up on young talent and future draft picks, clear cap space and rebuild the right way.

Yeah.. no.

Beal is too young. Thats all that needs to be said. He just turned 26yo, he is simply too young to be the piece that you trade to “start a rebuild”.. I don’t care what anyone says , he is too young period.

This isn’t like a Hawks situation where Millsap and Horford were aging, or even the Raptors where Derozan was already 30yo and at or past his prime.

If a 26yo rising star is willing to commit to your franchise , you do everything in your power to keep and build around them. I can’t remember the last team that traded a 26yo franchise star after they had a career season and did not demand a trade - that just isn’t done in this business, and idk why people expect the Wizards to be the ones to do it.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1028 » by nate33 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:49 am

prime1time wrote:I don't agree that All-NBA Is unlikely. I think Beal is poised to get even better next year. If you look past the games we were clearly tanking, after Wall went down Beal averaged 28, 6 and 5. And I expect him to get better. Also, this year, he'll have teammates that accept their roles. We need to start putting more respect on Beal's name. IMO, he's right next to Lillard and Kyrie. The only argument you can make is that our record will be bad so those other guys will win by default. But I think we have a chance to squeak into the playoffs. Regardless, Beal has a great shot at making an All-NBA team. It was a shame that he didn't make it this year.

I think opposing defenses will load up on him even more, now that Porter/Parker aren't around to draw attention. It's going to be real tough for Beal to maintain that TS% north of 58%.

Also, I don't think they're going to play Beal 37 minutes a night. It doesn't make sense for a team that has no realistic shot at the playoffs. So his counting stats will probably drop even if his per minute stats improve a bit more.

Finally, I expect the competition to be more fierce. Curry, Harden and Lillard are locks. Kyrie is probably a lock. Jimmy Butler and Ben Simmons should both benefit by no longer playing alongside each other. And Kemba's path just got easier because he now plays on a team that matters. That's 7 guys - all on playoff teams. Beal can't just match them, he'll have to outplay them significantly to move ahead of them. There's also D'Aaron Fox. And Westbrook may not be out of the conversation just yet either. And maybe Doncic will be considered a guard.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1029 » by Dark Faze » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:33 am

I really don't understand why Tommy is offering it. It's creating pressure for both sides now when its very clear that it's in Brads best interest for a number of reasons to wait for his current contract to run out.

The 3 year extension makes no sense. It feels like the organization trying to rush an answer out of Brad now--and I don't think you keep anyone that way. Feels like pushing Brad out the door.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1030 » by doclinkin » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:08 pm

Dark Faze wrote:I really don't understand why Tommy is offering it. It's creating pressure for both sides now when its very clear that it's in Brads best interest for a number of reasons to wait for his current contract to run out.

The 3 year extension makes no sense. It feels like the organization trying to rush an answer out of Brad now--and I don't think you keep anyone that way. Feels like pushing Brad out the door.


That’s not how Tommy presented it. He said there’s a lot of time but this is the first chance the organization has to offer an extension so they’re making their interest and intentions clear. Brad is a cornerstone of the franchise and the team is being built in his image and in consultation with him, so this is just a procedural step to formally make clear he’s their guy. There will be other opportunities to do so.

Sounds like Brad was in the room or asked on every major move they made in the draft and free agency.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1031 » by JWizmentality » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:24 pm

Dark Faze wrote:I really don't understand why Tommy is offering it. It's creating pressure for both sides now when its very clear that it's in Brads best interest for a number of reasons to wait for his current contract to run out.

The 3 year extension makes no sense. It feels like the organization trying to rush an answer out of Brad now--and I don't think you keep anyone that way. Feels like pushing Brad out the door.


How is it in our best interest to let Brad's contract run out so we get Kemba'd?
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1032 » by Illmatic12 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:38 pm

Dark Faze wrote:I really don't understand why Tommy is offering it. It's creating pressure for both sides now when its very clear that it's in Brads best interest for a number of reasons to wait for his current contract to run out.

The 3 year extension makes no sense. It feels like the organization trying to rush an answer out of Brad now--and I don't think you keep anyone that way. Feels like pushing Brad out the door.

There’s no pressure , they aren’t expecting him to sign it right then and there.

Sheppard said it’s being offered as soon as they can to show how much the organization values Brad and wants to build around him. He has until October to sign it, and even if he does not sign this particular extension the Wizards were clear that they would not trade him just because he turns it down.

If Beal doesn’t sign its very likely that he wants to see if he can get more money next summer.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1033 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:03 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:Yeah.. no.

Beal is too young. Thats all that needs to be said. He just turned 26yo, he is simply too young to be the piece that you trade to “start a rebuild”.. I don’t care what anyone says , he is too young period.




I understand the sentiment. Brad Beal is fantastic.

And in a vacuum, you're right.

It's the salary cap situation moving forward that limits what your team can be. Adding in Wall's career threatening injury and there's a very good chance WAS is on the verge of committing a quarter of a billion dollars to field a playoff team with a 2nd round ceiling for the next half decade.



We see great players languish on mediocre to bad teams all the time. The last Wizards PBO dug such a deep hole, there's no easy fix unless you can con someone into taking John Wall's contract off the books. Otherwise -- Beal becomes Anthony Davis, Chris Paul in New Orleans. Paul George in Indiana. Kemba in Charlotte. A very good player on a capped out, less than stellar team.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1034 » by doclinkin » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:19 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:Yeah.. no.

Beal is too young. Thats all that needs to be said. He just turned 26yo, he is simply too young to be the piece that you trade to “start a rebuild”.. I don’t care what anyone says , he is too young period.




I understand the sentiment. Brad Beal is fantastic.

And in a vacuum, you're right.

It's the salary cap situation moving forward that limits what your team can be. Adding in Wall's career threatening injury and there's a very good chance WAS is on the verge of committing a quarter of a billion dollars to field a playoff team with a 2nd round ceiling for the next half decade.



We see great players languish on mediocre to bad teams all the time. The last Wizards PBO dug such a deep hole, there's no easy fix unless you can con someone into taking John Wall's contract off the books. Otherwise -- Beal becomes Anthony Davis, Chris Paul in New Orleans. Paul George in Indiana. Kemba in Charlotte. A very good player on a capped out, less than stellar team.


I’d submit you have no idea what the cap will be over the life of Brads next contract. Ratings are up under the new high octane era. Gambling $ has not yet hit the books. And we’ve commonly seen that a player who is extended for high dollars at the time ends up looking a relative bargain when the next wave of contracts is inked.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1035 » by Rafael122 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:37 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:Yeah.. no.

Beal is too young. Thats all that needs to be said. He just turned 26yo, he is simply too young to be the piece that you trade to “start a rebuild”.. I don’t care what anyone says , he is too young period.




I understand the sentiment. Brad Beal is fantastic.

And in a vacuum, you're right.

It's the salary cap situation moving forward that limits what your team can be. Adding in Wall's career threatening injury and there's a very good chance WAS is on the verge of committing a quarter of a billion dollars to field a playoff team with a 2nd round ceiling for the next half decade.



We see great players languish on mediocre to bad teams all the time. The last Wizards PBO dug such a deep hole, there's no easy fix unless you can con someone into taking John Wall's contract off the books. Otherwise -- Beal becomes Anthony Davis, Chris Paul in New Orleans. Paul George in Indiana. Kemba in Charlotte. A very good player on a capped out, less than stellar team.


At this point I'm not really worried about the cap situation anymore. Wall's deal isn't the albatross on the cap that people are making it out to be. The Wiz have some cap space next summer (like $18 million or something), and then they have something like close to $45 million in Summer of 2021.

This is why I kinda like the trades we made with the Lakers. We're not sure how good Wagner, Bonga, or Jones will be but at the very least they are under team control through the 2021 season. If they're going to rebuild this quick, it's good to have cheap contracts on the books.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1036 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:41 pm

doclinkin wrote:I’d submit you have no idea what the cap will be over the life of Brads next contract.


Rafael122 wrote:At this point I'm not really worried about the cap situation anymore. Wall's deal isn't the albatross on the cap that people are making it out to be. The Wiz have some cap space next summer (like $18 million or something), and then they have something like close to $45 million in Summer of 2021.




Sounds like you guys are on the fast track to contention.

I wish your fans the best and look forward to seeing it all play out.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1037 » by Rafael122 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:44 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
doclinkin wrote:I’d submit you have no idea what the cap will be over the life of Brads next contract.


Rafael122 wrote:At this point I'm not really worried about the cap situation anymore. Wall's deal isn't the albatross on the cap that people are making it out to be. The Wiz have some cap space next summer (like $18 million or something), and then they have something like close to $45 million in Summer of 2021.




Sounds like you guys are on the fast track to contention.

I wish your fans the best and look forward to seeing it all play out.


Has nothing to do with contention. You're pushing the national narrative that Wall's contract somehow prohibits them from fielding a good team, which is false.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1038 » by DCZards » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:57 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:Yeah.. no.

Beal is too young. Thats all that needs to be said. He just turned 26yo, he is simply too young to be the piece that you trade to “start a rebuild”.. I don’t care what anyone says , he is too young period.




I understand the sentiment. Brad Beal is fantastic.

And in a vacuum, you're right.

It's the salary cap situation moving forward that limits what your team can be. Adding in Wall's career threatening injury and there's a very good chance WAS is on the verge of committing a quarter of a billion dollars to field a playoff team with a 2nd round ceiling for the next half decade.



We see great players languish on mediocre to bad teams all the time. The last Wizards PBO dug such a deep hole, there's no easy fix unless you can con someone into taking John Wall's contract off the books. Otherwise -- Beal becomes Anthony Davis, Chris Paul in New Orleans. Paul George in Indiana. Kemba in Charlotte. A very good player on a capped out, less than stellar team.


Ok, Jamaailver, we get it. You think the Zards should trade Beal ASAP. You’ve said it over and over and over again. You’re entitled to your opinion on the subject but many of us here disagree with it.

Heck, you’re a fan of an opposing team and probably don’t even follow the Zards closely...or truly know our situation. So why should we believe you have our team’s best interest at heart?
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1039 » by tontoz » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:59 pm

I understand the reasoning of the "trade Beal" crowd. I just don't want to do it.

If I was a season ticket holder I would be even more strongly against it.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1040 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:00 pm

DCZards wrote:Ok, Jamaailver, we get it. You think the Zards should trade Beal ASAP. You’ve said it over and over and over again. You’re entitled to your opinion on the subject but many of us here disagree with it.

Heck, you’re a fan of an opposing team and probably don’t even follow the Zards closely...or truly know our situation. So why should we believe you have our team’s best interest at heart?


:dontknow:

i JUST Sympathize with other long suffering fanbases.

You guys had the best backcourt in the EC for years, sadly with little to show for it.

I'd like to see all of the teams in the Southeastern Division improve. Somehow, our 5-team collection has become the laughing stock of the NBA.

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