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Bradley Beal - Part III

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1041 » by doclinkin » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:08 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
doclinkin wrote:I’d submit you have no idea what the cap will be over the life of Brads next contract.


Rafael122 wrote:At this point I'm not really worried about the cap situation anymore. Wall's deal isn't the albatross on the cap that people are making it out to be. The Wiz have some cap space next summer (like $18 million or something), and then they have something like close to $45 million in Summer of 2021.




Sounds like you guys are on the fast track to contention.

I wish your fans the best and look forward to seeing it all play out.


I think we will be OK with a short term hit for retaining a young and improving 2 time all star who is involved in the community and front office decisions. Who advocated for our current GM to get the job because of his relationship with him. If for whatever reason we can’t retain him, he has proven ability to keep his opinions on stealth mode, and from everything he says publicly, would likely work with the GM to get the team the best deal possible for all involved.

I don’t think that will be the case. I think this team will re-sign him for his next contract, and build the team around him. Whether or not it will result in an uptick in wins or contention for postseason success remains to be seen. Having this player on the team is unlikely to be the thing that holds us back. That’s all up to how Intelligently we can draft and put pieces around him through trade.

But that’s the team plan: build a squad in the mold of Bradley Beal: hardworking good character guys. That may be handicapping ourself by passing up Hi talent guys who are less team focused but more impressively gifted. But hey. We will see.

If our max contract point guard comes back from injury with a willingness to play defense, that he was unable to consistently do while suffering from pain, then even if his top end speed is off, we still have a 6‘4“ point guard with superior vision and passing. It’s not like he were say Trae Young who is always Always going to be tiny, so any edge taken off his game will make him a defensive liability.

I don’t see the road for championship contention for this team with those two players as the only pieces. But I do have a sliver of faith that the team they are putting together in the front office will make smart decisions to find other pieces.

So far they found one for free, and signed him on the cheap this off-season, in our young hard-working talented center.

Hachimura also shows flashes of something interesting on offense at least, and a willingness to give effort on defense, whether or not he yet knows what he’s doing at that end.

It should be interesting.

But just understand and remember this team paid the luxury tax out of loyalty alone, because they like the guys they have. And if it comes down to it, while digging out of the past regime, I get the sense that they would be willing to put down some seed money to buy future respect.

We have two key assets that most teams don’t have. We have a $30 million coupon in insurance money that is paying for the John Wall contract this year.

And we have Ms. Apple Computers as a co-owner of the team. Our entire budget as a rounding error in her monthly interest. She’s a very smart business woman, and the financial potential of this team in this market is currently depressed, but if you lose a little money upfront, you just may see a powerful significant return on investment. Washington capitals championship money paid for renovations elsewhere in the building. DC is a basketball town that goes berserk when Georgetown or Maryland are significant. There is money here waiting to be spent. The team is looking to create a legacy. Establish a way of doing business. Paying up front for a player who exemplifies the philosophy you wish to instill just may be the cost you pay.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1042 » by Illmatic12 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:21 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:Yeah.. no.

Beal is too young. Thats all that needs to be said. He just turned 26yo, he is simply too young to be the piece that you trade to “start a rebuild”.. I don’t care what anyone says , he is too young period.




I understand the sentiment. Brad Beal is fantastic.

And in a vacuum, you're right.

It's the salary cap situation moving forward that limits what your team can be. Adding in Wall's career threatening injury and there's a very good chance WAS is on the verge of committing a quarter of a billion dollars to field a playoff team with a 2nd round ceiling for the next half decade.



We see great players languish on mediocre to bad teams all the time. The last Wizards PBO dug such a deep hole, there's no easy fix unless you can con someone into taking John Wall's contract off the books. Otherwise -- Beal becomes Anthony Davis, Chris Paul in New Orleans. Paul George in Indiana. Kemba in Charlotte. A very good player on a capped out, less than stellar team.

This is the new NBA , you can always figure something out and work around the salary cap.

Keep your young star player and figure out the rest later. The Wiz can move Wall’s contract in the future they were really motivated to do so. They can deal with that later.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1043 » by DCZards » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:23 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
DCZards wrote:Ok, Jamaailver, we get it. You think the Zards should trade Beal ASAP. You’ve said it over and over and over again. You’re entitled to your opinion on the subject but many of us here disagree with it.

Heck, you’re a fan of an opposing team and probably don’t even follow the Zards closely...or truly know our situation. So why should we believe you have our team’s best interest at heart?


:dontknow:

i JUST Sympathize with other long suffering fanbases.

You guys had the best backcourt in the EC for years, sadly with little to show for it.

I'd like to see all of the teams in the Southeastern Division improve. Somehow, our 5-team collection has become the laughing stock of the NBA.


If the Zards did indeed have the "best backcourt in the EC" it was really only for one year--the 2016-17 season when they won 49 games and came within a game of advancing to the EC finals. Wall played 78 games that season and Beal played 77 games.

Beal was injured a good deal the two previous seasons. He played 63 games during the 2014-15 season and only 55 games the following season. Wall played 41 games during the 2017-18 season and only played 32 games last season.

So, no, the Zards have not had the "best backcourt in the EC for years"...not when you take into account how often they were not on the court together in recent years.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1044 » by gambitx777 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:57 pm

A few years you could make the argument that we could have been much more serious contenders if better loved were made else where. And I'm not talking about seriously big stuff. I'm talking marginal **** like the Nicholson deal and not over paying ian

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1045 » by nate33 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:31 pm

DCZards wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
DCZards wrote:Ok, Jamaailver, we get it. You think the Zards should trade Beal ASAP. You’ve said it over and over and over again. You’re entitled to your opinion on the subject but many of us here disagree with it.

Heck, you’re a fan of an opposing team and probably don’t even follow the Zards closely...or truly know our situation. So why should we believe you have our team’s best interest at heart?


:dontknow:

i JUST Sympathize with other long suffering fanbases.

You guys had the best backcourt in the EC for years, sadly with little to show for it.

I'd like to see all of the teams in the Southeastern Division improve. Somehow, our 5-team collection has become the laughing stock of the NBA.


If the Zards did indeed have the "best backcourt in the EC" it was really only for one year--the 2016-17 season when they won 49 games and came within a game of advancing to the EC finals. Wall played 78 games that season and Beal played 77 games.

Beal was injured a good deal the two previous seasons. He played 63 games during the 2014-15 season and only 55 games the following season. Wall played 41 games during the 2017-18 season and only played 32 games last season.

So, no, the Zards have not had the "best backcourt in the EC for years"...not when you take into account how often they were not on the court together in recent years.

And they were never better than the Curry/Klay backcourt.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1046 » by Zerostatic » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:04 am

Knicks fan here. The Knicks signed a crap load of 1 year contracts this offseason (with a team option for a 2nd year). They have enough expiring contracts that they could take John Wall and Bradley Beal and only give you expiring back. Is this something you think the Wizards would consider?
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1047 » by doclinkin » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:54 am

Zerostatic wrote:Knicks fan here. The Knicks signed a crap load of 1 year contracts this offseason (with a team option for a 2nd year). They have enough expiring contracts that they could take John Wall and Bradley Beal and only give you expiring back. Is this something you think the Wizards would consider?


There’s no polite way to answer so I’ll answer in the dialect of Bensonhurst:

“Fuggouttaheah... You believe this guy? Samatta you. You got kicked in da head? Take your one year expiring carcass out this thread and back to wherever dahell you came from. I’ll tell you what you can do with your one year expiring contracts. You can roll them into a tight little cylinder the size of a tampon and poke them right up where da sun don’t shine. It a be a tight fit cuz evidence suggests yer head is already well tucked up there.

“This guy...”

Now let me translate:

“No.”

Read the headline where the Wiz are planning to sign Beal to as Max an extension as possible.

Also: the owner of the team is in daily contact with John Wall during his rehab, just calling to chat with his buddy and fully expecting him to come back 100%.

Also, $30 million of that Wall max salary is paid by insurance.

Also, even if it weren’t: Steve Jobs widow is co-owner of the team. We’re not hurting for money.

Also: we paid lux tax already to pay Wall and Beal. The plan is to continue to build around them. We’re hiring staff trying to build a franchise philosophy of hard work and good character guys. Building around Beal is the cornerstone of that new direction. Beal has been involved in the draft and free agent decisions and is good friends with our new GM. The team is not trying to dump him. The team is trying to retire his jersey and give him a job in the front office after his playing days are over.

And you’re offering expiring deals. That’s it. Fuxsamattawitchu.

Look at the pick haul Nawlins got for AD. And the haul that the Clips got for PG. Now recognize that the Clips called our team second to make a trade for Beal and we turned them down. Read that part again. The Thunder got a billion and a half pics from the Clips and prospects. But _before they called about PG_ they called us and were politely told what I’m telling you. No. No. Never. Not under any circumstances.

New York does not, has not, will never have, enough assets to make any trade enticing. But you want our five time all star and two time all star for free. You been huffing inhalants again. Don’t do that man. You got a future ahead of you. Or maybe you don't, I dunno. You’re a fan of the Nix. Did you ask anyone on the Knicks board about this trade idea before you came over here? Did they laugh?

Feel free to answer in this thread here if you want to have a good fight about it. I’ll happily accept any insults you got.
if you’re reading this welcome to the Secret East Coast Vigilante forum.

Mods: in the spirit of Pineappleheadindc (miss that dude) maybe move this entire response to the trolls thread? Sorry?
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1048 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:16 am

doclinkin wrote: I think we will be OK with a short term hit for retaining a young and improving 2 time all star who is involved in the community and front office decisions.

But that’s the team plan: build a squad in the mold of Bradley Beal: hardworking good character guys. That may be handicapping ourself by passing up Hi talent guys who are less team focused but more impressively gifted. But hey. We will see.

If our max contract point guard comes back from injury with a willingness to play defense, that he was unable to consistently do while suffering from pain, then even if his top and speed is off, we still have a 6‘4“ point guard with superior vision and passing. It’s not like he were say Trae Young who is always Always going to be tiny, so any edge taken off his game will make him a defensive liability.

I don’t see the road for championship contention for this team with those two players as the only pieces.

Hachimura also shows flashes of something interesting on offense at least, and a willingness to give effort on defense, whether or not he yet knows what he’s doing at that end.



Noted. Beal is a fantastic young man.

And I do think Wall hears all the criticism about being the worst, most unmoveable contract, on the downside of his career -- all while Beal is universally praised around the league. That has to motivate him like crazy.

Plus Rui does have another jump to make. He's gonna be good.



Regarding undersized Trae and his matador defense...yeah. It's gonna be tough to get past that.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1049 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:03 pm

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1050 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:11 am

I was an advocate for trading Beal, but I do see the logic keeping him.

True he's not a top 5 player who's going to lead you to a championship. He's not a lead dog #1 guy. But you keep him for the same reason the Clippers traded for Paul George. Because having PG enables you to get Kawhi.

We already have Brad. We don't have to trade to get him, we are one step closer already. He is the guy that a #1 can say I can go there and team up with him.. That is why you keep him.

We just have to move Wall, and build the rest of the team. But having Brad here can be a major piece of this puzzle to turn this around sooner rather than later.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1051 » by Illmatic12 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:57 am

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1052 » by gambitx777 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:34 am

So, it's fun to think of trade ideas, but as said before. If wall comes back as any kind of a positive player he will be movable at little or not cost to us. The reason Ted says naw, he's not playing is because he doesn't want to get hopes up and put pressure on wall

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1053 » by TheBabyMaker » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:20 am

I give 2 **** about this topic. Yawn its boring, I wan't Beal in a Lakers uniform. I'm out.

Edit him AD LeBron and Beal would smash the league next year.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1054 » by Illmatic12 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:15 pm

gambitx777 wrote:So, it's fun to think of trade ideas, but as said before. If wall comes back as any kind of a positive player he will be movable at little or not cost to us. The reason Ted says naw, he's not playing is because he doesn't want to get hopes up and put pressure on wall

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Also because he has to say that in order to be awarded a DPE for Wall, so Ted can write off his salary to insurance .

Once he gets the DPE, all they have to do is hold John out for 41 games then they can decide whether they want to bring him back towards the end of the season.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1055 » by Rafael122 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:17 pm

The super max contract is crazy!

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1056 » by TGW » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:26 pm

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1057 » by Rafael122 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:36 pm

It's in Beal's interests to sign a 2+1.

The only difference between the 3 year extension this year, and 4 years next summer is the 1 yr/$42 million. A ton of money, but he would be signed through his age 30 season and would turn 31 that summer. His agent would be doing him a disservice locking him in that long.

If he signs a 2+1, he can opt out at 30, have his 10 years of service and would actually make more money in that first year than he would in the last year of his 4 year max.

If he signed a max in 2021 with a new team, we're talking maybe $6 million in differences in the first 3 years when comparing that contract with an extension here. The difference is 1 year, but like I said before, he can recoup that plus another $7 million if he opted out at 30 and signs the 35% max contract.

I didn't mention All-NBA because I don't think it's realistic.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1058 » by nate33 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:47 pm

Rafael122 wrote:The super max contract is crazy!

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I don't understand why there's such a difference.

The normal extension should be 30% of the salary cap. A supermax should be 35%. There is more than a 5%-of-the-cap difference between those two groups of numbers.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1059 » by nate33 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:58 pm

I've been thinking it over, and the best move for Beal is to sign a 1+1 extension (2nd year a player option). It's pretty much a no-brainer. The upsides are multiple and the downside is almost nil.

As it stands now, his existing contract ends in 2021, his 9th season, so that he's not eligible for a 35% max on his next contract. By extending his existing contract for one more year to 2022, he'll become an unrestricted free agent after his 10th season and he'll be eligible for the 35% max from any team with cap room. By making it a 1+1 extension, he gets the added security of another year of salary in case he has a catastrophic injury between now and 2022.

Another advantage is that, by 2022, there will be more more clarity on the Wizards' direction under their new GM. By then, we should know if Hachimura, Bryant, Brown and their 2020 (high) pick are legit starters/stars or merely rotation players. We'll know if John Wall is close to his old self, or maybe he'll be moved by then and the Wizards will be making a play for a max salary free agent in 2021 or 2022 to join Beal, Hachimura, Bryant, etc.

Finally, it resolves a lot of angst in the organization. An extension, even a short one, would silence all the troublemakers trying to stir stuff up. It says that Beal is dedicated to the organization within reason, but understandably isn't going to commit the rest of his life if the organization isn't doing it's part to get better.

The only downside to extending now would be if he makes All-NBA this season or next season. If he did so, he would miss out on the opportunity to sign a 35% supermax (with the Wizards only) that would kick in in 2021, a year earlier than his 10th season. But ultimately, that's only about $7M lost, and the benefits he gains are 2 years of injury insurance and the opportunity to hit the open market as an unrestricted free agent after his 10th season. Also, it's going to be very hard to make All-NBA on a team that will probably have 28 wins.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1060 » by Illmatic12 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:26 pm

nate33 wrote:
Spoiler:
Rafael122 wrote:The super max contract is crazy!

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I don't understand why there's such a difference.


The normal extension should be 30% of the salary cap. A supermax should be 35%. There is more than a 5%-of-the-cap difference between those two groups of numbers.

So this might be a bit confusing .. but the extension Beal is being offered today isn’t based on 35% of the cap . It’s based on the CBA rule that you can give an early extension to a non-rookie scale player at UP to 120% of their current salary with 8% raises.

In recent years we’ve seen that max players wouldn’t consider this kind of extension because it typically lowballs them - a recent example is Jimmy Butler

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At the time Butler’s contract (like John Wall’s) was the rookie max extension signed under the old cap, so when Minnesota offered to extend him at 120% of his salary that 4/$110M deal was a paltry sum compared to what he’d make in free agency.

HOWEVER this Beal situation is different, because he was actually in the first crop of players who signed a rookie max after the salary cap jump. So it just so happens that 120% of his current $27M salary is $34.5M and with 8% raises it effectively ends up being equal to the current max he would sign anyways. He’d be making about as much as Kyrie Irving is on his max contract with the Nets, for instance.

Washington can offer Beal a respectable extension without it necessarily being a lowball offer relative to the market, which is why he has to at least consider the 1+1 or 2+1 route. Granted it’s way less than the 35% supermax would hypothetically be and slightly less than the 30% max. But it’s still legitimately a lot more money than he’s currently making and you have to respect being offered that much guaranteed money now.

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