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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:26 pm
by Ruzious
closg00 wrote:https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/7/29/8938000/bradley-beal-nba-washington-wizards-trade

While it's too early to panic, it's not too early to conclude we cannot let the situation reach the Kemba Walker stage.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:17 pm
by Rafael122
Ruzious wrote:
closg00 wrote:https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/7/29/8938000/bradley-beal-nba-washington-wizards-trade

While it's too early to panic, it's not too early to conclude we cannot let the situation reach the Kemba Walker stage.


That's different. MJ and management straight up lowballed him. If Kemba was offered the full max, he would have stayed IMO.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:30 pm
by nate33
I really get the sense that management has their eyes wide open on this issue. They are in constant communication with Beal and have a plan in place. It may well be the case that Bryant, Hachimura, and Brown don't pan out and Beal ultimately decides that he wants to move on, but I really don't think the Wizards will be blindsided by the decision. They'll get enough notice that they'll have time to trade him for value.

The worst case is not that Beal leaves for nothing like Kemba. It's that he will be traded at the Trade Deadline in 2021 for maybe 80% of his peak trade value.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:12 pm
by Ruzious
nate33 wrote:I really get the sense that management has their eyes wide open on this issue. They are in constant communication with Beal and have a plan in place. It may well be the case that Bryant, Hachimura, and Brown don't pan out and Beal ultimately decides that he wants to move on, but I really don't think the Wizards will be blindsided by the decision. They'll get enough notice that they'll have time to trade him for value.

The worst case is not that Beal leaves for nothing like Kemba. It's that he will be traded at the Trade Deadline in 2021 for maybe 80% of his peak trade value.

Well, looking at Charlotte, I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion - though obviously I'd rather get 200% rather than 80% for Beal. They not only have probably the worst roster in the East, but they have very little as far as young talent. They could have started up the rebuilding process a year ago if they traded Kemba a year ago - improving their lotto pick and getting young assets for Kemba - even if they only got 80% of his max value for him. Now they have PJ Washington to build around. Ouch. Actually, if they finally let Willy Hernangomez play, he could be a stud, but he'll be a UFA after this season. They won 39 games last season - they'll win less than 25 this season with very little as far young assets and picks. That's what I don't want the Wiz to follow.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:31 pm
by DCZards
nate33 wrote:I really get the sense that management has their eyes wide open on this issue. They are in constant communication with Beal and have a plan in place. It may well be the case that Bryant, Hachimura, and Brown don't pan out and Beal ultimately decides that he wants to move on, but I really don't think the Wizards will be blindsided by the decision. They'll get enough notice that they'll have time to trade him for value.

The worst case is not that Beal leaves for nothing like Kemba. It's that he will be traded at the Trade Deadline in 2021 for maybe 80% of his peak trade value.


Agree. The Zards should know by the end of next season whether or not Beal is going to resign. If there are signals that he isn't going to resign, then, yes, you look to trade him. There will still be plenty of suitors.

But there's no need to trade BB now or before the end of next season, especially when there's a good chance he'll resign with the Zards. I'd rather risk getting 20% or so less for Beal next year than give up now on the possibility that he'll resign.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:09 pm
by Illmatic12
Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:I really get the sense that management has their eyes wide open on this issue. They are in constant communication with Beal and have a plan in place. It may well be the case that Bryant, Hachimura, and Brown don't pan out and Beal ultimately decides that he wants to move on, but I really don't think the Wizards will be blindsided by the decision. They'll get enough notice that they'll have time to trade him for value.

The worst case is not that Beal leaves for nothing like Kemba. It's that he will be traded at the Trade Deadline in 2021 for maybe 80% of his peak trade value.

Well, looking at Charlotte, I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion - though obviously I'd rather get 200% rather than 80% for Beal. They not only have probably the worst roster in the East, but they have very little as far as young talent. They could have started up the rebuilding process a year ago if they traded Kemba a year ago - improving their lotto pick and getting young assets for Kemba - even if they only got 80% of his max value for him. Now they have PJ Washington to build around. Ouch. Actually, if they finally let Willy Hernangomez play, he could be a stud, but he'll be a UFA after this season. They won 39 games last season - they'll win less than 25 this season with very little as far young assets and picks. That's what I don't want the Wiz to follow.

Firstly your initial analogy about the Kemba situation isn’t accurate. He didn’t leave because he wanted to play elsewhere, in fact Walker openly told the Hornets management he wanted to stay and was willing to take less. He left because Charlotte lowballed him and were indirectly telling him they wanted to move on . Ted isn’t a cheapskate like Jordan so that isn’t relevant to Beal is it?

Secondly, outside of Wall the Wiz moved all of their onerous veteran contracts and have 9 players on the roster under 22 and will be adding a high lottery pick this season (Beal or no Beal, they’re a lottery team). So they already have a head start on the rebuilding process.

It’s easy to draw sweeping analogies but the two situations are not the same.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:18 pm
by Illmatic12
DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:I really get the sense that management has their eyes wide open on this issue. They are in constant communication with Beal and have a plan in place. It may well be the case that Bryant, Hachimura, and Brown don't pan out and Beal ultimately decides that he wants to move on, but I really don't think the Wizards will be blindsided by the decision. They'll get enough notice that they'll have time to trade him for value.

The worst case is not that Beal leaves for nothing like Kemba. It's that he will be traded at the Trade Deadline in 2021 for maybe 80% of his peak trade value.


Agree. The Zards should know by the end of next season whether or not Beal is going to resign. If there are signals that he isn't going to resign, then, yes, you look to trade him. There will still be plenty of suitors.

But there's no need to trade BB now or before the end of next season, especially when there's a good chance he'll resign with the Zards. I'd rather risk getting 20% or so less for Beal next year than give up now on the possibility that he'll resign.

The percentage chance that we get a high lottery pick and can use it to complement Beal (either through drafting or trading for pieces) is well worth holding off any decision on Brad until next offseason .

That’s what many are forgetting when they think the Wizards have no assets - we own all of our future firsts. Based on the way this roster is looking, 9 months from now Washington’s 2020 1st is going to be one of the most valuable assets in the league and I expect Sheppard to explore all avenues.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:37 pm
by Jamaaliver
Illmatic12 wrote:The percentage chance that we get a high lottery pick and can use it to complement Beal (either through drafting or trading for pieces) is well worth holding off any decision on Brad until next offseason .



That's just such a dangerous approach to take. Primarily since Beal will be down to only one year under contract -- limiting his potential trade value.

And also because another bottom 5 finish in the standings could incite him to decide he's ready to move on.


I mean, if the prospect of playing alongside Zion Williamson wasn't enough to convince Anthony Davis to stick around New Orleans, I similarly doubt any of next year's prospects will inspire Beal to stick in a place solely for a less heralded rookie.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:55 pm
by DCZards
Jamaaliver wrote:That's just such a dangerous approach to take. Primarily since Beal will be down to only one year under contract -- limiting his potential trade value.

And also because another bottom 5 finish in the standings could incite him to decide he's ready to move on.


I mean, if the prospect of playing alongside Zion Williamson wasn't enough to convince Anthony Davis to stick around New Orleans, I similarly doubt any of next year's prospects will inspire Beal to stick in a place solely for a less heralded rookie.


We get that the Zards risk not getting nearly as much in return if they wait until next year to trade Beal.

But some of us believe the reward—Beal resigning with the Zards—significantly outweighs that risk.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:59 pm
by Jamaaliver
DCZards wrote:We get that the Zards risk not getting nearly as much in return if they wait until next year to trade Beal.

But some of us believe the reward—Beal resigning with the Zards—significantly outweighs that risk.




I have nothing but respect for that.

He's a really good dude and helluva player.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:02 pm
by Jamaaliver
I can't imagine this trade package appeals to Wiz fans at all...


Ideal Landing Spots for NBA Offseason's Remaining Trade Targets

Bradley Beal: Denver Nuggets

Image

Bradley Beal has plenty of good reasons to decline the three-year, $111 million extension the Washington Wizards offered last week, according to The Athletic's David Aldridge, not the least of which is the more lucrative supermax extension for which he might be eligible next offseason.

Money aside, Beal should be cautious about committing to a team whose long-term prospects appear as bleak as Washington's.

The Denver Nuggets are a perfect foil for the Wizards. Led by Nikola Jokic and in possession of a locked-in core of players just now entering their primes, the Nuggets are a franchise poised for a long run of success. Adding Beal, perhaps for a package including Gary Harris and Michael Porter Jr., would elevate an already lofty ceiling in Denver.

Jamal Murray has the franchise's faith, as evidenced by his new $170 million deal, but Beal is already the type of established first option the Nuggets hope Murray can become. The two could coexist nicely, offering scoring and playmaking at both guard spots.

An upgrade over the solid-but-unspectacular Harris, Beal would give the Nuggets a do-it-all wing whose production should only improve with Jokic operating as his set-up man. Beal proved he could handle high-usage work last year, finishing as one of just eight qualified players to average at least 25 points and five assists. With the supporting talent in Denver, he would feast on easier looks and might get to rest off the ball once in a while.

The Golden State Warriors' demise opened up the title chase, and Beal could be the player who puts Denver over the top in a crowded field of ring-pursuers.
Bleacher Report

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:35 pm
by pcbothwel
Jamaaliver wrote:I can't imagine this trade package appeals to Wiz fans at all...


Ideal Landing Spots for NBA Offseason's Remaining Trade Targets

Bradley Beal: Denver Nuggets

Image

Bradley Beal has plenty of good reasons to decline the three-year, $111 million extension the Washington Wizards offered last week, according to The Athletic's David Aldridge, not the least of which is the more lucrative supermax extension for which he might be eligible next offseason.

Money aside, Beal should be cautious about committing to a team whose long-term prospects appear as bleak as Washington's.

The Denver Nuggets are a perfect foil for the Wizards. Led by Nikola Jokic and in possession of a locked-in core of players just now entering their primes, the Nuggets are a franchise poised for a long run of success. Adding Beal, perhaps for a package including Gary Harris and Michael Porter Jr., would elevate an already lofty ceiling in Denver.

Jamal Murray has the franchise's faith, as evidenced by his new $170 million deal, but Beal is already the type of established first option the Nuggets hope Murray can become. The two could coexist nicely, offering scoring and playmaking at both guard spots.

An upgrade over the solid-but-unspectacular Harris, Beal would give the Nuggets a do-it-all wing whose production should only improve with Jokic operating as his set-up man. Beal proved he could handle high-usage work last year, finishing as one of just eight qualified players to average at least 25 points and five assists. With the supporting talent in Denver, he would feast on easier looks and might get to rest off the ball once in a while.

The Golden State Warriors' demise opened up the title chase, and Beal could be the player who puts Denver over the top in a crowded field of ring-pursuers.
Bleacher Report


It doesnt in the slightest

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:38 pm
by pcbothwel
Illmatic12 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:I really get the sense that management has their eyes wide open on this issue. They are in constant communication with Beal and have a plan in place. It may well be the case that Bryant, Hachimura, and Brown don't pan out and Beal ultimately decides that he wants to move on, but I really don't think the Wizards will be blindsided by the decision. They'll get enough notice that they'll have time to trade him for value.

The worst case is not that Beal leaves for nothing like Kemba. It's that he will be traded at the Trade Deadline in 2021 for maybe 80% of his peak trade value.


Agree. The Zards should know by the end of next season whether or not Beal is going to resign. If there are signals that he isn't going to resign, then, yes, you look to trade him. There will still be plenty of suitors.

But there's no need to trade BB now or before the end of next season, especially when there's a good chance he'll resign with the Zards. I'd rather risk getting 20% or so less for Beal next year than give up now on the possibility that he'll resign.

The percentage chance that we get a high lottery pick and can use it to complement Beal (either through drafting or trading for pieces) is well worth holding off any decision on Brad until next offseason .

That’s what many are forgetting when they think the Wizards have no assets - we own all of our future firsts. Based on the way this roster is looking, 9 months from now Washington’s 2020 1st is going to be one of the most valuable assets in the league and I expect Sheppard to explore all avenues.


Again..this cant be stated enough. We have a two year window with Brad, but we will know in 10 months key questions about Wall, Brown, Bryant, Rui, and our 2020 pick.

All could fall apart and we would still have time to move Beal.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:08 pm
by Illmatic12
Jamaaliver wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:The percentage chance that we get a high lottery pick and can use it to complement Beal (either through drafting or trading for pieces) is well worth holding off any decision on Brad until next offseason .



That's just such a dangerous approach to take. Primarily since Beal will be down to only one year under contract -- limiting his potential trade value.

And also because another bottom 5 finish in the standings could incite him to decide he's ready to move on.


I mean, if the prospect of playing alongside Zion Williamson wasn't enough to convince Anthony Davis to stick around New Orleans, I similarly doubt any of next year's prospects will inspire Beal to stick in a place solely for a less heralded rookie.

Anthony Davis was traded with 1yr left on his deal and that situation worked out wonderfully for New Orleans, you are literally proving our point lol. They took their time and it still turned out great for them bc they held all the cards.

So that’s just more proof that the Wizards can afford to be patient with Beal and reassess things a year from now. Either way it goes they’ll be fine.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:14 pm
by Illmatic12
pcbothwel wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
Agree. The Zards should know by the end of next season whether or not Beal is going to resign. If there are signals that he isn't going to resign, then, yes, you look to trade him. There will still be plenty of suitors.

But there's no need to trade BB now or before the end of next season, especially when there's a good chance he'll resign with the Zards. I'd rather risk getting 20% or so less for Beal next year than give up now on the possibility that he'll resign.

The percentage chance that we get a high lottery pick and can use it to complement Beal (either through drafting or trading for pieces) is well worth holding off any decision on Brad until next offseason .

That’s what many are forgetting when they think the Wizards have no assets - we own all of our future firsts. Based on the way this roster is looking, 9 months from now Washington’s 2020 1st is going to be one of the most valuable assets in the league and I expect Sheppard to explore all avenues.


Again..this cant be stated enough. We have a two year window with Brad, but we will know in 10 months key questions about Wall, Brown, Bryant, Rui, and our 2020 pick.

All could fall apart and we would still have time to move Beal.

And we’ll also know more about how much money we can offer to Beal (possibly supermax if he qualifies)

Washington is absolutely taking the right approach to this situation. Play out the season and reassess your position in the 2020 offseason.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:41 pm
by Ruzious
Illmatic12 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:The percentage chance that we get a high lottery pick and can use it to complement Beal (either through drafting or trading for pieces) is well worth holding off any decision on Brad until next offseason .



That's just such a dangerous approach to take. Primarily since Beal will be down to only one year under contract -- limiting his potential trade value.

And also because another bottom 5 finish in the standings could incite him to decide he's ready to move on.


I mean, if the prospect of playing alongside Zion Williamson wasn't enough to convince Anthony Davis to stick around New Orleans, I similarly doubt any of next year's prospects will inspire Beal to stick in a place solely for a less heralded rookie.

Anthony Davis was traded with 1yr left on his deal and that situation worked out wonderfully for New Orleans, you are literally proving our point lol. They took their time and it still turned out great for them bc they held all the cards.

So that’s just more proof that the Wizards can afford to be patient with Beal and reassess things a year from now. Either way it goes they’ll be fine.

Correct - it did. But... Anthony is on another level than Brad is. He is arguably the most talented player in the planet - not the best but arguably the most talented. Beal isn't. What happened with Davis stays with Davis... er does not necessarily apply to Beal. At least we cannot count on it being the same situation.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:36 pm
by payitforward
pcbothwel wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:I can't imagine this trade package appeals to Wiz fans at all...
SNIP
...Adding Beal, perhaps for a package including Gary Harris and Michael Porter Jr....

It doesnt in the slightest

Well, it does read "including" -- so there's not enough info to know what the package would be. I would certainly want Monte Morris as part of any deal with them.

IMO, they were nuts to give Jamal Murray that huge deal. He's done nothing so far. He went down not up last season.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Tue Aug 6, 2019 7:04 pm
by Jamaaliver
Read on Twitter

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Tue Aug 6, 2019 8:00 pm
by trast66
Jamaaliver wrote:
Read on Twitter


That's just wrong. 89 or 90.

Re: Bradley Beal - Part III

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:38 pm
by nate33
I came across this today:

Beal set a career-high last season with 61 dunks. That was the most by a Wizards/Bullets guard since at least 1999-00, as far back as the stat is tracked by Basketball Reference. Beal also both attempted and made a higher percentage of shots within three feet of his career. Of all his field goals, 28.1 percent were attempted within three feet and he made 69.7 percent of them. His average shot attempt was from 14.7 feet out, the closest to the rim of his career.


That's pretty amazing that he had more dunks than any Wizards in 20 years. It's also a little sad. I guess our best guys at getting to the rim have always been guards (Wall and Arenas) who end up laying it up rather than dunking. Our only scoring big man in the last 20 years was Gortat who lays it up a lot. Our other bigs were guys like Haywood who never scored, or guys like Nene and Etan Thomas who never got that many minutes.

We've never had a high volume slashing wing who could finish, except perhaps Caron Butler. And Butler shot a lot from midrange.

FWIW, I looked up the numbers on basketballreference and they say Beal had 68 dunks last year. Wall typically gets around 35-40 a year. Gortat routinely gets into the 50's with 56 being his best as a Wizard. Caron Butler had 58 one year and 61 another year. Jamison usually got just 10-15 dunks a year. Arenas got around 25-30 dunks a year in his best years.

Kelly Oubre got 53 dunks in his last full season here in just 2200 minutes. He had 83 dunks last year splitting time between Washington and Phoenix. That guy knew what to do with the ball when he got to the basket.