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Bradley Beal - Part III

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1361 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:10 pm

To be fair, it's worth pointing out that Beal has been dreadful on defense this year. He ranks dead last in defensive RPM out of 124 qualified shooting guards. Dead last!

I feel like he's been better defensively since returning from injury, but still, the defensive numbers are beyond awful. When coaches weighed whether to put in Beal or a guy like Kyle Lowry or Jaylen Brown, they had to have been thinking about the inexcusably bad defense played by Beal and his team.

It probably didn't help that the team went 4-3 when Beal was out, defeating some pretty good teams. Maybe that was a fluke due to Ish, Mahinmi and McRae playing out of their minds, but nevertheless, it detracted from the argument that the team is utterly talentless and incompetent, and that Beal is all on his own.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1362 » by Ruzious » Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:25 pm

nate33 wrote:To be fair, it's worth pointing out that Beal has been dreadful on defense this year. He ranks dead last in defensive RPM out of 124 qualified shooting guards. Dead last!

I feel like he's been better defensively since returning from injury, but still, the defensive numbers are beyond awful. When coaches weighed whether to put in Beal or a guy like Kyle Lowry or Jaylen Brown, they had to have been thinking about the inexcusably bad defense played by Beal and his team.

It probably didn't help that the team went 4-3 when Beal was out, defeating some pretty good teams. Maybe that was a fluke due to Ish, Mahinmi and McRae playing out of their minds, but nevertheless, it detracted from the argument that the team is utterly talentless and incompetent, and that Beal is all on his own.

Is that stat affected by teammates? (I'm trying to give him an alibi - playing a lot with IT)? 124 out of 124 is brutal.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1363 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:50 pm

Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:To be fair, it's worth pointing out that Beal has been dreadful on defense this year. He ranks dead last in defensive RPM out of 124 qualified shooting guards. Dead last!

I feel like he's been better defensively since returning from injury, but still, the defensive numbers are beyond awful. When coaches weighed whether to put in Beal or a guy like Kyle Lowry or Jaylen Brown, they had to have been thinking about the inexcusably bad defense played by Beal and his team.

It probably didn't help that the team went 4-3 when Beal was out, defeating some pretty good teams. Maybe that was a fluke due to Ish, Mahinmi and McRae playing out of their minds, but nevertheless, it detracted from the argument that the team is utterly talentless and incompetent, and that Beal is all on his own.

Is that stat affected by teammates? (I'm trying to give him an alibi - playing a lot with IT)? 124 out of 124 is brutal.

I think the reason it's called "real" plus minus is that it uses regression analysis to try and weed out the affect of teammates. Bojan Bogdanovic doesn't magically become a great defender just because he plays alongside Gobert.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1364 » by Shanghai Kid » Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:59 pm

The argument against Beal as an All-star is that the defense metrics rate him as one of the worst defenders at his position. And the team appears to do well enough without him.

Offensively, I think there is a belief that Beal is not a true 1A player. I think most feel that the 29ppg is more a byproduct of him having to fill in a big role vs the actual ideal role for him on a team. But hes certainly doing a great job of carrying the team and filling that role.

Without looking at the advanced stats, my sense is that Beals overall impact is still not greater then 2017 John Wall.

And although he's averaging 29/6/5, it also doesn't seem nearly as impactful as prime Gilberts Arenas's 29/6/5.

All that to say, Beal is putting in work. But hopefully the team around him becomes strong enough that he can let go of any identity or image of himself he might of developed as a 28-30ppg player
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1365 » by Ruzious » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:00 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:To be fair, it's worth pointing out that Beal has been dreadful on defense this year. He ranks dead last in defensive RPM out of 124 qualified shooting guards. Dead last!

I feel like he's been better defensively since returning from injury, but still, the defensive numbers are beyond awful. When coaches weighed whether to put in Beal or a guy like Kyle Lowry or Jaylen Brown, they had to have been thinking about the inexcusably bad defense played by Beal and his team.

It probably didn't help that the team went 4-3 when Beal was out, defeating some pretty good teams. Maybe that was a fluke due to Ish, Mahinmi and McRae playing out of their minds, but nevertheless, it detracted from the argument that the team is utterly talentless and incompetent, and that Beal is all on his own.

Is that stat affected by teammates? (I'm trying to give him an alibi - playing a lot with IT)? 124 out of 124 is brutal.

I think the reason it's called "real" plus minus is that it uses regression analysis to try and weed out the affect of teammates. Bojan Bogdanovic doesn't magically become a great defender just because he plays alongside Gobert.

Here's an article that seems to indicate it doesn't do that successfully. https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2016/05/04/real-plus-minus-the-bogus-new-stat-everyones-using Then again, it's from 2016, and I don't know if the stat's been re-worked since then.

Regardless, it's obvious Beal is playing poor defense.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1366 » by Kanyewest » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:13 pm

The Wizards have one of the worst defenses meaning a lot of their players are going to have bad defensive numbers.


Point guards
GPII 68 out of 86
Ish Smith 70 out of 86
Isiah Thomas 85 out of 86

Shooting Guards
McCrae is 106 out of 120


Small forwards
Bonga is 5 out of 87
Troy Brown is 75 out of 87
Mo Wagner is 79 out of 87 (Not sure why Wagner is listed as a SF)
Bertans is 82 out of 87

Power forwards
Rui is 93 out of 93

Center
Ian Mahinmi is 26 out of 65 (I believe he's played most of his minutes with Beal out of the lineup)
Bryant is 62 out of 65
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1367 » by queridiculo » Sat Feb 1, 2020 11:55 am

Shanghai Kid wrote:Without looking at the advanced stats, my sense is that Beals overall impact is still not greater then 2017 John Wall.

And although he's averaging 29/6/5, it also doesn't seem nearly as impactful as prime Gilberts Arenas's 29/6/5.


How impactful would Arenas be playing with this group, how about John Wall?

This is a bad, bad roster, with Thomas Bryant arguably being the only player with a legit chance to start elsewhere and Bertans likely being the only other legit rotation player.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1368 » by payitforward » Sat Feb 1, 2020 1:57 pm

nate33 wrote:Mark Bartelstein isn't wrong.

Bartelstein is right, to be sure. But part of the problem is the make-up of the reserves. Of the 7 reserves, Lowry & Simmons are PGs. Sabonis & Adebayo are 4-5s. Butler is a 3.

Then they refer to Jayson Tatum & Khris Middleton as... guards!!! That's plain ridiculous. Middleton is a pure 3, & Tatum has played both the 3 & the 4 this year.

Boston has played 47 games, meaning just over 4500 minutes of guard play. Walker, Smart, Green, Langford, Waters, Wanamaker & Edwards have played 4173 minutes. Jaylen Brown has spent @30% of his 1300 minutes at guard. There are all the minutes played at guard by anyone on the Celtics this year.

Meanwhile, Hayward, Ojeleye, & Grant Williams have combined for 2357 minutes. Add the other 70% of Brown's minutes 900. Leave just enough room for Jayson Tatum's 1450 minutes, & we have arrived at the total of minutes played at the 3 & 4.

A few too many, actually -- & that is because Boston has played some minutes "small." In those minutes, Tatum has actually been, in effect, a 5.

In other words, as we all knew anyway, Tatum is no guard. &, of course I could go through the same exercise for Khris Middleton.

What does this tell you? That All Star selection is a popularity contest & nothing else. Now, maybe if we look at the productive guards in the East it's possible that we still pass over Beal -- his season didn't look so great a few weeks ago. It looks a lot better after the extraordinarily productive stretch he's been in most recently.

But, that's a different issue. The point is that -- in pursuit of its popularity contest -- the All Star selection process has screwed every good guard in the East!
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1369 » by payitforward » Sat Feb 1, 2020 2:19 pm

DCZards wrote:I expected Bartelstein’s statement to be some drivel about how horrible it is that his client didn’t make the all-star team. But it isn’t. The larger point he makes about Brad essentially being punished for being loyal to the Zards should send shock waves through an NBA that has seen a superstar like AD abandon a small-market team and alter the competitive balance of the league by demanding a trade.

You would think that the league likes the message that BB sent by staying with the Zards.

Superstars have been abandoning smaller markets for larger ones since forever -- how about Kareem Abdul Jabbar as Exhibit 1 ?? Not to mention that Milwaukee placed 2 guys on the team.

It's simple, really -- actual position has been sacrificed in favor of pure popularity. Looked at accurately, the East squad has 4 point guards, 0 shooting guards, 2 SFs, 1 combo forward, 3 PFs, 1 PF-Center, & 1 true Center.

Tatum is the most egregious member of the squad. He's not a 2, & he hasn't even had a good year. In fact, he hasn't yet performed at the level of his rookie year.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1370 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sat Feb 1, 2020 5:49 pm

Maybe they should change the way the ALL-STAR game is done.

To borrow idea from MLB , every team sends a player. Each team sends 1player to represent them, that way every team participates all fans are represented and have a reason to watch. There's 15 teams in each conference so it gives you 15 man roster for each just doing it that way.

So some guys don't go sorry that's the downside of superstars joining together. They can always work it out between them, I'll go this year you go next or whatever.

That way someone is snubbed its easily explainable only one per team it's not some big disrespect. But it would just be a different to do the all-star game, could make it more interesting.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1371 » by nate33 » Sat Feb 1, 2020 6:40 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Maybe they should change the way the ALL-STAR game is done.

To borrow idea from MLB , every team sends a player. Each team sends 1player to represent them, that way every team participates all fans are represented and have a reason to watch. There's 15 teams in each conference so it gives you 15 man roster for each just doing it that way.

So some guys don't go sorry that's the downside of superstars joining together. They can always work it out between them, I'll go this year you go next or whatever.

That way someone is snubbed its easily explainable only one per team it's not some big disrespect. But it would just be a different to do the all-star game, could make it more interesting.

I like it!

Another side benefit is that players might be a little less inclined to join a superteam. It might help create more parity.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1372 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Feb 1, 2020 7:05 pm

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1373 » by gambitx777 » Sat Feb 1, 2020 9:21 pm

Or keep the fan voted but the highest voted guy on each team goes and the coaches can choose 5 other guys to fill needs and can then have 20 per team and some guys don't need to be playing heavy minutes anyway.
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Maybe they should change the way the ALL-STAR game is done.

To borrow idea from MLB , every team sends a player. Each team sends 1player to represent them, that way every team participates all fans are represented and have a reason to watch. There's 15 teams in each conference so it gives you 15 man roster for each just doing it that way.

So some guys don't go sorry that's the downside of superstars joining together. They can always work it out between them, I'll go this year you go next or whatever.

That way someone is snubbed its easily explainable only one per team it's not some big disrespect. But it would just be a different to do the all-star game, could make it more interesting.


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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1374 » by payitforward » Sat Feb 1, 2020 11:03 pm

Another good way to handle this would be to play 10 on 10. Just create a larger court, move the 3-point line way way out, & make the basket bigger.

Plus, nobody wants an all star game decided by free throws, so put the free throw line at center court. Also, opposing team players would be allowed to dance around in front of the shooter to distract him.

For fairness, as well, there should be an all-journeyman game & a 1-quarter all-non-star game between the worst players in each conference (anonymous voting by players). Participation should be non-voluntary.

Another idea -- a "we wuz robbed" game between guys who thought they should have been chosen for the all star game.

Finally, being selected to the all star game should entail a cost -- all those selected should be required to contribute $1m per 10 minutes they play in the game to a charity chosen by... oh what the hell... by me!

great ideas, but you may have even better ideas! If so, please keep them to yourselves, ok?
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1375 » by NatP4 » Sun Feb 2, 2020 3:34 am

I haven’t posted all year basically, but Beal doesn’t even come close to deserving an all star selection. He’s literally the worst defender in the entire NBA any every metric. He hasn’t even been all that efficient as a scorer.

People can say “oh he’s on a bad team” but the reason this team is bad is because of guys like Beal being unplayable on defense. Bertens, Bonga, Wagner, and Brown have been the only real players on this team.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1376 » by Kanyewest » Sun Feb 2, 2020 6:48 pm

NatP4 wrote:I haven’t posted all year basically, but Beal doesn’t even come close to deserving an all star selection. He’s literally the worst defender in the entire NBA any every metric. He hasn’t even been all that efficient as a scorer.

People can say “oh he’s on a bad team” but the reason this team is bad is because of guys like Beal being unplayable on defense. Bertens, Bonga, Wagner, and Brown have been the only real players on this team.


I could see why you could see Beal isn't an all star (I have a different opinion) but to say it isn't close seems a bit excessive considering Trae Young also made the team.

Also, Bertans, Wagner, and Brown are also not graded too kindly by defensive plus minus either.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1377 » by Kanyewest » Mon Feb 3, 2020 9:32 pm

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1378 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Thu Feb 6, 2020 10:54 pm

Watching NBA TV right now they are about to have a feature on Beal !
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1379 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Thu Feb 6, 2020 11:14 pm

It was about his field trip to Howard U.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1380 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:27 am

Devin Booker has been named by Adam Silver as an injury replacement to the 2020 All-Star Game for Damian Lillard. Booker will also replace Lillard in the Three-Point Contest.

Booker is averaging 26.4 points (10th in NBA) and 6.3 assists (19th) while shooting career bests of 49.6% from the field (30th) and 92.0% from the free throw line (2nd) in this his fifth season.
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