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Bradley Beal - Part III

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1641 » by lastemp3ror » Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:17 pm

Is there a real scenario where Beal signs at the max and this team is a championship-caliber team? Even in 2 years? What are the odds of this happening? 20% chance? I don't see it. Between that and the real scenario that he walks away for nothing, it isn't worth keeping him around. This team just needs to fully rebuild for once. I am so tired of having our toes in the water but not committing. Trade him for the Kuminga package.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1642 » by nate33 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:16 am

lastemp3ror wrote:Is there a real scenario where Beal signs at the max and this team is a championship-caliber team? Even in 2 years? What are the odds of this happening? 20% chance? I don't see it. Between that and the real scenario that he walks away for nothing, it isn't worth keeping him around. This team just needs to fully rebuild for once. I am so tired of having our toes in the water but not committing. Trade him for the Kuminga package.

I'm open to traded him for that very reason. I'm just saying that the odds of Beal walking for nothing just plummeted. That's a good thing.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1643 » by payitforward » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:59 am

lastemp3ror wrote:Is there a real scenario where ...this team is a championship-caliber team? Even in 2 years? What are the odds of this happening? 20% chance?...

The answer to this question is no. The odds of it happening are Zero.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1644 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:28 pm

closg00 wrote:
Closg00, thank you for posting this.

If the Wizards really want to keep Bradley Beal ....
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1645 » by queridiculo » Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:34 pm

nate33 wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but it seems really important:

Read on Twitter


Boston can no longer get anywhere close to max cap room next year. The best they can do, if they waive and stretch Horford, is about $25M in cap room. And that's not enough for Beal unless there is a Jalen Brown trade incorporated.

It's worth noting that Boston generated a $17.8M TPE in the Fournier transaction, so it looks like the Celtics are actually going to go ahead and operate above the luxury tax using the TPE, MLE and such to add to their existing roster.

With Boston off the table as a plausible destination, I'm much more confident about resigning Beal, even if he doesn't agree to an extension in October. I don't think he'll want to go play for Detroit, OKC or Charlotte while missing out on the 5th year that we can offer.


Eh, I mean, that's a relatively team friendly contract and the kind of money that seems to be the standard for starter in this league.

All they did was make sure that they extend their asset, even if it means taking back dimes on a dollar for expirings at that deadline.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1646 » by queridiculo » Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:39 pm

ghsermon wrote:It's funny to think about but I think Beal pretty much has the Wizards stuck in a conundrum where they can't build a winner but also can't rebuild. I almost feel like the Front Office expected Beal to demand a trade especially after the Westbrook trade. But because he hasn't and seemingly wants to stay the Front office can't justify to the fan base trading the guy when he doesn't want out. But at the same time you aren't building a championship contender around Beal. It's quite a quandry they are in. I guess enjoy Beal being a perrenial allstar and leading NBA scorer for the next 5-7 years.


I actually think the Wizards are doing a decent job straddling both potential scenarios at the moment.

They have some salary cap flexibility, managed to round out the roster with some competent players, have a couple of decent young prospects and they haven't particularly overextended themselves by giving away future draft picks.

With the way the Wizards are setup right now they can still go in both directions and they have left themselves open for possibly pouncing on a star player that might be looking to move on to greener pastures.

Compared to how the Wizards looked this time of the year just last season it's a night and day difference.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1647 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:34 pm

queridiculo wrote:
ghsermon wrote:It's funny to think about but I think Beal pretty much has the Wizards stuck in a conundrum where they can't build a winner but also can't rebuild. I almost feel like the Front Office expected Beal to demand a trade especially after the Westbrook trade. But because he hasn't and seemingly wants to stay the Front office can't justify to the fan base trading the guy when he doesn't want out. But at the same time you aren't building a championship contender around Beal. It's quite a quandry they are in. I guess enjoy Beal being a perrenial allstar and leading NBA scorer for the next 5-7 years.


I actually think the Wizards are doing a decent job straddling both potential scenarios at the moment.

They have some salary cap flexibility, managed to round out the roster with some competent players, have a couple of decent young prospects and they haven't particularly overextended themselves by giving away future draft picks.

With the way the Wizards are setup right now they can still go in both directions and they have left themselves open for possibly pouncing on a star player that might be looking to move on to greener pastures.

Compared to how the Wizards looked this time of the year just last season it's a night and day difference.


Refreshingly level-headed take.
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1648 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:59 am

queridiculo wrote:
ghsermon wrote:It's funny to think about but I think Beal pretty much has the Wizards stuck in a conundrum where they can't build a winner but also can't rebuild. I almost feel like the Front Office expected Beal to demand a trade especially after the Westbrook trade. But because he hasn't and seemingly wants to stay the Front office can't justify to the fan base trading the guy when he doesn't want out. But at the same time you aren't building a championship contender around Beal. It's quite a quandry they are in. I guess enjoy Beal being a perrenial allstar and leading NBA scorer for the next 5-7 years.


I actually think the Wizards are doing a decent job straddling both potential scenarios at the moment.

They have some salary cap flexibility, managed to round out the roster with some competent players, have a couple of decent young prospects and they haven't particularly overextended themselves by giving away future draft picks.

With the way the Wizards are setup right now they can still go in both directions and they have left themselves open for possibly pouncing on a star player that might be looking to move on to greener pastures.

Compared to how the Wizards looked this time of the year just last season it's a night and day difference.
I agree with you I think the Wizards are doing a terrific job preparing for any contingency
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1649 » by doclinkin » Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:08 pm

queridiculo wrote:
ghsermon wrote:It's funny to think about but I think Beal pretty much has the Wizards stuck in a conundrum where they can't build a winner but also can't rebuild. I almost feel like the Front Office expected Beal to demand a trade especially after the Westbrook trade. But because he hasn't and seemingly wants to stay the Front office can't justify to the fan base trading the guy when he doesn't want out. But at the same time you aren't building a championship contender around Beal. It's quite a quandry they are in. I guess enjoy Beal being a perrenial allstar and leading NBA scorer for the next 5-7 years.


I actually think the Wizards are doing a decent job straddling both potential scenarios at the moment.

They have some salary cap flexibility, managed to round out the roster with some competent players, have a couple of decent young prospects and they haven't particularly overextended themselves by giving away future draft picks.

With the way the Wizards are setup right now they can still go in both directions and they have left themselves open for possibly pouncing on a star player that might be looking to move on to greener pastures.

Compared to how the Wizards looked this time of the year just last season it's a night and day difference.


This is where I am as well. We are set up to have a decent team, the guys we added have value and upside. We added depth in potential starters. We have a smart coach who is noted both for player development and for creating both offense and defense that uses his players to their best strengths. He has a legacy to live up to and I expect he feels additional dedication to honor his dad here. He started his career here, was in the building the last time this franchise won a championship. HIs dad gave his life to this franchise. There is pride at stake.

In Beal we have a loyal guy who has given his career to building a good team here, and clearly has input on decision making etc. He has the example of guys like Wes and Tommy, who stuck it out and waited their turn and are finally getting the reward for the work. If Beal chooses to move on, I fully expect he will take a sign and trade to earn the extra 50 million, and also to give back to a guy like Tommy with whom he has a good relationship. He was ready to quit over Ernie's protracted tenure, when Tommy got bumped up to the top job Beal stuck around. If Beal signs here and we don't progress and advance, he will still have value league-wide and we can listen for offers. A Beal package to a contending team would be worth a ton. Though right now many contending teams have spent all their assets. In a way it would be smarter to wait for teams like Memphis, New Orleans, Atlanta to rise to contention and look around for that next piece. Teams like LA, the Bucks, the Nets, the Heat have spent all their future draft picks.

In the mean time I don't mind listening around for smart ways to improve our team with the guys we have now. See who is a match chemistry-wise and then look for advantageous trades for guys who are a better fit.

Whatever his track record in the draft (undetermined) Tommy has done some pretty dynamic and creative things with trades. Yeah in scouting he tends to like his guys and stays loyal to his initial impressions, he tries to pick them up later when they are devalued. But he is a wizard when it comes to tradework. And he is not shy to pull the trigger.

This particular last couple years has been eye-opening. He traded John Wall's rehabbed leg for Aaron Holiday, Spencer DinWiddie, KCP, Kyle Kuzma, and Montrezl Harrell. That is a starting team's worth of depth. (Plus a developmental prospect in Isaiah Todd). Only 6th man of the year Trez Harrell has not been a full time starter in that bunch. Swapping Troy and Mo for Gafford. Even landing Neto on a cheap contract. Getting Bryant for nothing. Tommy has shown enough for me to give him the benefit of the doubt for a while.

I'm of a mind to be cautiously optimistic, not that we have a championship calibre team right now, but that we have enough pieces that can mature into breakthrough years, young players with experience who are entering their prime. Players who still have upside they might reach in a new environment, with a new coach. We have potential for chemistry that adds up to more wins than it looks like on paper, and a smart coach who can make a player look good enough that Tommy can listen to offers and sell high. We have depth, players who can fight for that starting position, fill in with no drop off when one goes down, starters in back-up roles. With depth, other teams can look at the guys who are not starting and think they will do better in a new environment, and offer better value.

How many times has it been in the past that it seemed like Ernies DESIGN was to have no depth behind a key starter, so that if that starter went down we would collect lottery tickets. Instead we have options, too many to fit into a playable 10 man rotation.

So. Yeah. If Beal was looking for a fresh start, I feel like shoot, we are one of the teams with enough pieces that we could slide into a 3 way deal to land say Dame Lillard or whomever. And if Brad re-inked here at a massive contract, still we have enough pieces around him that we could win and attract offers for the guys we do have, in a consolidation trade to land a co-star. And if Brad leaves and instead we have to add draft picks and prospects, well, I fully expect there will be teams willing to spend their entire future to buy him at auction.

We are alright. Meanwhile I feel like we have a team that will be fun to cheer for. Guys like Trez, Gafford, are going to give max effort, high energy. Guys like Dinwiddie, Beal, are smart good character guys who are tough to guard when playing well. Dinwiddie plays with swagger, makes opponents look silly when he uses their teammates against themselves. Brad has learned how to pick up an And-1 most any time he drives. And we finally have reliable outside shooting, with multiple players who have shot @40% at points in their career. Okay, our defense is a question mark, but still, we are going to play giant killer some nights and be a tough cover for teams to game-plan against if our offense lives up to its potential.

And if our young players live up to the hopes and the hype? Man. Who knows. You know?
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Re: Bradley Beal - Part III 

Post#1650 » by payitforward » Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:47 pm

doclinkin wrote:...Tommy has done some pretty dynamic and creative things with trades. ...he is a wizard when it comes to tradework. And he is not shy to pull the trigger.

This particular last couple years has been eye-opening. He traded John Wall's rehabbed leg for Aaron Holiday, Spencer DinWiddie, KCP, Kyle Kuzma, and Montrezl Harrell... (Plus a developmental prospect in Isaiah Todd)....

I'm excerpting doc in a way that takes us off topic in this thread, but I think it's worth it just to underline the point doc makes.

Ok, it's slightly over-stated -- we also included a well-protected R1 pick -- but I still don't think anyone could have imagined us turning John's "untradable" contract into that package of players.

Leave the Holiday trade out of the picture for a second: Tommy turned John Wall & a protected R1 pick into Kuzma, Harrell, KCP & a R1 pick 1 year earlier (!) in a deep draft. Wow!

doclinkin wrote:...Swapping Troy and Mo for Gafford. Even landing Neto on a cheap contract. Getting Bryant for nothing. Tommy has shown enough for me to give him the benefit of the doubt for a while....


Hey, you're leaving stuff out! :) He also got Bertans for nothing -- we were offered a R1 pick for him 6 months later. Even tho we didn't take that offer, it certainly points to some extraordinary work by Tommy!

Plus, we also got Moe -- who was part of what got us Gafford -- for nothing! & he got Garrison Mathews for nothing too. & made a very smart & solid move to turn Sato into 2 R2 picks.

2 years & 2 months ago, this team had exactly 3 players anyone would have imagined as having any trade value -- any value at all! Bradley Beal, Thomas Bryant & Troy Brown Jr. The entire rest of the roster was trash except for John Wall who was injured, could not play, & burdened the team with an enormous contract.

I'm plenty critical of Tommy's work in the draft, & he did make one significant mistake in re-signing Bertans (a decision which may have been forced on him by Ted -- tho we don't know that as a fact). But, overall, Sheppard has been unbelievably good!
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