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WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS...............

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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#841 » by I_Like_Dirt » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:27 pm

Maybe to put things more into perspective, I'll characterize it as not just scouting/drafting, but an ability and willingness to use those tools to help the team.

In this instance, I think Masai Ujiri in Toronto is a useful comparison for Ernie. Masai hasn't won any titles or anything. He's a good GM, but not a great one just yet, so this isn't setting the bar as high as it can go. It just so happens, that I think the two teams are pretty comparable in terms of their foundations. Lowry/Wall, Demar/Beal, Carroll/Porter, Valanciunas/Gortat. Realistically I'd argue the Raptors are a little better at the guard spots and worse at SF/C, but the gap isn't outrageous really, when you take each group of 4 main starters together.

It's the bench, though, where Ujiri has really leveraged his scouting ability to load up on draft picks and castoffs who were never given a chance, and has decked out the Raptors' bench and set them ahead of the Wizards. Last year they had Biyombo, and this year they have Sullinger, who hasn't even played yet. He picked up Patterson as a castoff in a similar way (for Rudy Gay) to how Ernie grabbed Morris (a late 1st), only Patterson is probably the less skilled player, but more effective player in a defined role. Then you start looking at guys like Joseph, Powell, Ross, Siakam, Nogueira and that's one of the bigger strengths of the Raptors and most of those guys are still on extremely cheap contracts. None of those guys are stars, but as a collection, they're highly effective with little overlap and roles established where they play to their strengths, and the back end of their bench even has guys like Delon Wright and Jakob Poeltl waiting around.

Ernie, on the flipside, doesn't seem very interested at those kinds developmental and/or reclamation projects. He likes his veterans and just can't quit throwing big money at guys like Mahinmi and Smith. I do think he tried to go younger this offseason, too, but he's also not interested in taking on guys with little to no NBA experience or opportunity. And that's a problem, because instead of taking on those guys, he's taking on castoffs from other teams who have failed for several seasons already. Instead of looking to the draft to develop his own guys, he's mostly looking to more experienced young players like Nicholson, Burke, Morris, all guys who played significantly more minutes than Corey Joseph did on the Spurs before they joined the Wizards, or the leftovers after every other team has already taken the best guys on the market. And this isn't a one-offseason type of problem. It's a problem that accumulates across several offseasons. Don't care for a couple years, then you're eventually going to pay for it down the line unless you're especially brilliant/lucky elsewhere. Whether or not Ernie is a good scout is debatable, but he's not leveraging the draft at all unless the team accidentally winds up being one of the worst teams in the league, and leaving it for other more successful teams to mine. This doesn't mean he needs to start going all Ainge or anything and collecting more draft picks than he can roster, but his problems as a GM tend to centre around his aversion to the draft.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#842 » by tontoz » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:52 pm

The Raps don't have any top 3 picks playing on their roster. We have 3 yet we can't win more than 46 games. The Raps will win more than that for the 3rd time in a row this season.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#843 » by NatP4 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:41 pm

tontoz wrote:The Raps don't have any top 3 picks playing on their roster. We have 3 yet we can't win more than 46 games. The Raps will win more than that for the 3rd time in a row this season.


You know we would smack them around in a playoff series. Top 3 picks are not our problem over here.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#844 » by tontoz » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:43 pm

NatP4 wrote:
tontoz wrote:The Raps don't have any top 3 picks playing on their roster. We have 3 yet we can't win more than 46 games. The Raps will win more than that for the 3rd time in a row this season.


You know we would smack them around in a playoff series. Top 3 picks are not our problem over here.


No, our problem is what the GM has done with everything except his top 3 picks.

I see no reason to believe we would beat them in a series unless one of their best players is hurt.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#845 » by Dark Faze » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:24 pm

Raps are overrated. You look at their competition in the first two rounds last year and it's crazy how close those series were.

Maybe this year they'll finally sleepwalk through a post season, but regular season success is not post season success, not even close
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#846 » by payitforward » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:48 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
AFM wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I missed your point. Sorry.

I think you're saying Richardson is better than all the guys I mentioned. You may well be right. Right now, small ball with Porter and Oubre with Brogdon a key sub would seem like a good look.

My point is Grunfeld could have retained the draft pick, not acquired Morris, and would only be paying minimum salary to whomever he drafted.

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He's saying even had we kept our pick, E.G. Would have blown it by drafting a bust.


Ehh... 2011 Draft, Smith/Nicholson, etc are all fair game. But thinking EG and co. would automatically screw up a pick is not reality. If we take away Wall and Beal because of they were no brainers, you still have Porter over Len/Noel looks like a good move and Oubre at 15 looks to be better than every player picked in the first round except for two generational talents picked top 4 (KAT/ Porzingis) and another Center Myles Turner at 11.

Seraphin @#17 in 2010 was a perfectly good pick. Some guys don't work out; doesn't mean it was the wrong pick. Keeping him too long... that's vintage Ernie.
Trevor Booker @#23 in 2010 was a good pick. Letting him go while keeping Seraphin was vintage Ernie.
Shelvin Mack @#34 in 2011 wasn't the best pick or the right pick. But it was a good pick. Waiving him for no reason and no return was vintage Ernie.

Ernie's by no means a great draft-er. He's by no means a good judge of talent. But you can't defend the trade of a R1 pick for Markieff Morris by saying Ernie was guaranteed to pick the wrong guy anyway.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#847 » by payitforward » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:53 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I missed your point. Sorry.

I think you're saying Richardson is better than all the guys I mentioned. You may well be right. Right now, small ball with Porter and Oubre with Brogdon a key sub would seem like a good look.

My point is Grunfeld could have retained the draft pick, not acquired Morris, and would only be paying minimum salary to whomever he drafted.

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Yeah, I was saying Grunfeld would have drafted a bust, because his track record outside of a top 3 pick isn't particularly good. And we got to see what Grunfeld did with added cap space this offseason. But yes, he could have signed another Jason Smith with the money he'd have saved on using the pick instead of trading for Morris.

I'm not a believer at all in Richardson. He does some things well, but while I understand there are a few differences in their games, he really looks like he's going to be a poor man's Dion Waiters in the NBA.

As for Oubre, I'm still on the fence. A lot of these players haven't really had a shot to prove themselves yet, Oubre included. I do think Booker and Lyles have shown significantly more than Oubre, or most others, although they went higher in the draft, too. He looks like he was a reasonable pick where he was taken, but he's got a long way to go to separate himself from the relatively low bar being set by the rest of his draft class so far (although as mentioned, it's way to early to tell with any of these guys). Hopefully Oubre succeeds, because he does have the ability to do so. But if he's the only non-top 3 pick brought up, and before he's proven anything at that, that's a problem. Because one good pick doesn't erase his other non-top 3 1st rounders with the Wizards, which includes, Veseley, Singleton, Booker (alright, but not great and let go very easily), McGee, Young, and Pecherov. Was he around for Jarvis Hayes? I can't remember anymore.

I'm not going to repeat my last post, but this is incorrect.

Btw, it's interesting that no one mentions Larry Nance out of the 2015 draft. He's been a huge positive surprise; he's killing it and looks to be one of the best young prospects in the league.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#848 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:45 pm

At one point Nance was ahead of Julius Randle on the Lakers depth chart.

Is Nance as good as Morris? Perhaps.

Based on this season http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nancela02.html the answer is YES.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#849 » by Ruzious » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:29 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:At one point Nance was ahead of Julius Randle on the Lakers depth chart.

Is Nance as good as Morris? Perhaps.

Based on this season http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nancela02.html the answer is YES.

Nance is probably a little better than Randle. At first glance, Randle looks impressive with great power - but his standing reach puts him at a disadvantage - Nance has a few inches on him there - and it makes a difference near the hoop.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#850 » by montestewart » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:45 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:At one point Nance was ahead of Julius Randle on the Lakers depth chart.

Is Nance as good as Morris? Perhaps.

Based on this season http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nancela02.html the answer is YES.

Nance is probably a little better than Randle. At first glance, Randle looks impressive with great power - but his standing reach puts him at a disadvantage - Nance has a few inches on him there - and it makes a difference near the hoop.

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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#851 » by dckingsfan » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:18 am

Could we have traded up two slots and taken Domantas Sabonis? Is Juan Hernangomez already better than Morris? Is Pascal Siakam already as good as Morris? Not liking that trade much...
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#852 » by payitforward » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:12 am

No kidding....
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#853 » by tontoz » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:33 am

Morris in our starting lineup is like a turd in a punch bowl.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#854 » by AFM » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:05 am

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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#855 » by DCZards » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:07 pm

The motivation behind Kieff Morris’s improved play apparently comes from being snubbed by Bleacher Report’s poll of the top PFs. Hopefully, he stays motivated.

This is from the Washington Post.

Just examine Morris’s numbers since the article appeared online on Jan. 12. In those eight games, Morris has averaged 17.3 points and 9.6 rebounds while making 41.4 percent of his three-point attempts. The Wizards are 7-1 in that stretch.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wizards-insider/wp/2017/01/28/markieff-morris-hates-clickbait-so-much-hes-taking-it-out-on-wizards-opponents/?utm_term=.169253b7c164
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#856 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:48 pm

DCZards wrote:The motivation behind Kieff Morris’s improved play apparently comes from being snubbed by Bleacher Report’s poll of the top PFs. Hopefully, he stays motivated.

This is from the Washington Post.

Just examine Morris’s numbers since the article appeared online on Jan. 12. In those eight games, Morris has averaged 17.3 points and 9.6 rebounds while making 41.4 percent of his three-point attempts. The Wizards are 7-1 in that stretch.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wizards-insider/wp/2017/01/28/markieff-morris-hates-clickbait-so-much-hes-taking-it-out-on-wizards-opponents/?utm_term=.169253b7c164


I have mixed emotions about a snub being his motivator.

That said, I'm glad they wrote what they did and it got back to Morris.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#857 » by payitforward » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:38 pm

Just glad to see him concentrating on getting better. Who cares about the motivation.

It's a good idea to keep perspective, however.

On the season, Markieff is still nowhere near as productive as an average big. He gets @ 20% fewer rebounds, 35% fewer offensive boards, fewer assists, fewer blocks, more fouls. Turnovers minus steals a little below average as well.

On the scoring side, he posts .5 points over average per 40 minutes -- but he needs @1.3 more shots to do it. His TS% is 53.1; vs. 56% as the average for an NBA big.

But... Markieff has momentum going for him, & if he keeps it up he'll get closer to average production as the season continues.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#858 » by dckingsfan » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:54 pm

payitforward wrote:Just glad to see him concentrating on getting better. Who cares about the motivation.

It's a good idea to keep perspective, however.

On the season, Markieff is still nowhere near as productive as an average big. He gets @ 20% fewer rebounds, 35% fewer offensive boards, fewer assists, fewer blocks, more fouls. Turnovers minus steals a little below average as well.

On the scoring side, he posts .5 points over average per 40 minutes -- but he needs @1.3 more shots to do it. His TS% is 53.1; vs. 56% as the average for an NBA big.

But... Markieff has momentum going for him, & if he keeps it up he'll get closer to average production as the season continues.

If you look at how well the other starters are doing - well it makes me sad. If we had put that $18M toward a production PF - who would we have? I guess we tried with Durant and Horford.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#859 » by TGW » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:56 pm

DCZards wrote:The motivation behind Kieff Morris’s improved play apparently comes from being snubbed by Bleacher Report’s poll of the top PFs. Hopefully, he stays motivated.

This is from the Washington Post.

Just examine Morris’s numbers since the article appeared online on Jan. 12. In those eight games, Morris has averaged 17.3 points and 9.6 rebounds while making 41.4 percent of his three-point attempts. The Wizards are 7-1 in that stretch.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wizards-insider/wp/2017/01/28/markieff-morris-hates-clickbait-so-much-hes-taking-it-out-on-wizards-opponents/?utm_term=.169253b7c164


Chief Kieff needs to put down the joint if he honestly thinks he's one of the better power forwards in the league.

Props to him for upping his game the past few weeks, but let's be honest here...he's been underwhelming as a member of the Wizards. His numbers suggest that he's better suited for the bench. It's nice that he's having a good stretch of basketball, but he has to do it for more than 7 games. A season is 82 games.
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Re: WIZ GET MARKIEFF MORRIS............... 

Post#860 » by tontoz » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:00 pm

An "snub" being the reason for his good play is a little bit of a letdown. That makes me think it might be short lived. After all, the BR article was correct.
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