RealGM

Which would you rather choose:

Grunfeld and Wittman come back next season
Top 3 pick in this draft

or

New GM
New Coach
Draft pick sent out to Phoenix

Is Grunfeld and Wittman worth having a shot at someone like Ben Simmons?

I think this is a tough question because you have no idea how free agency plays out, im sure EG would make a terrible decision but i would like a pick and theres always an opportunity Ted fires them midseason.

did someone hack the poll? When I last looked there were > 3 responses and it was strongly negative
towards keeping EG.

Not sure if serious

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gravytrain24 wrote:I think this is a tough question because you have no idea how free agency plays out, im sure EG would make a terrible decision but i would like a pick and theres always an opportunity Ted fires them midseason.

Ted would never fire a GM midseason. He is Pollin level of loyal.

Seeing as how Witt has a good chance of beng fired either way, it might boil down to Ernie or a top 3 pick. Tough to turn down that pick...

LyricalRico wrote:Seeing as how Witt has a good chance of beng fired either way, it might boil down to Ernie or a top 3 pick. Tough to turn down that pick...

That's not the point of the poll. In this scenario if you get the pick you have to keep Witt

New GM/New Coach. These guys will poison the well no matter how many assets they're given, do recall that EG had these assets to work with during the era of the rebuild:

1st, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 17th, 18th, 18th, 18th, 32nd, 32nd, 34th, 35th, 38th, 46th, and 49th overall picks across 7 drafts.

Of those 16 draft picks, a grand total of 4 are currently on the roster (Wall, Beal, Porter, Oubre). All those drafts which included 3 picks in the top 3 of drafts, and 5 in the top 6 overall resulted in these current assets on the team or held as a team asset:

John Wall
Bradley Beal
Otto Porter
Kelly Oubre
Marcin Gortat
Tomas Satoranksy (signed for several more years in Europe)
Aaron White (a body, possibly with potential in Europe)

In the past I've listed the picks by draft, but when you make a linear draft left to write, it really captures just how thoroughly and completely EG flushed this franchise down the toilet, and to make matters worse, considering we only have four current assets on the team amongst those 16 picks, you'd expect the team to at least be the Celtics and have a good collection of picks to work with going forward, buuuuutttt, no, we have literally nothing in this draft, and only 1 pick next year. You couldn't have done worse with those assets if you tried. I mean the knicks with one first rounder in like the past 15 years picked a player as impactful as all of those picks we had combined w/the possible exception of Wall, THE KNICKS.

How is this guy collecting a paycheck?

thricethefun wrote:

LyricalRico wrote:Seeing as how Witt has a good chance of beng fired either way, it might boil down to Ernie or a top 3 pick. Tough to turn down that pick...

That's not the point of the poll. In this scenario if you get the pick you have to keep Witt

Doesn't matter, it's easy to turn down the pick when you look at what that hack did with 5 top 6 overall picks between '09-'13, and 3 top 3 overall picks. Basically expletive all. Getting rid of a talentless hack of a GM and hiring a competent one is priceless. EG has had 3 top 3 picks and look at the drain were slowly circling down. Easy decision to fire them and go without the pick.

It's easy. A new GM can find a way to acquire a pick and will actually know what to do with a second round pick if we had one. A new GM will have plenty of cap room and a plan. Of course, with Ted you never know if he'll let him alone for a few years to let him do his job. A new GM will hire his own coach that will be able to execute his plan.

The Consiglieri wrote:New GM/New Coach. These guys will poison the well no matter how many assets they're given, do recall that EG had these assets to work with during the era of the rebuild:

1st, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 17th, 18th, 18th, 18th, 32nd, 32nd, 34th, 35th, 38th, 46th, and 49th overall picks across 7 drafts.

Of those 16 draft picks, a grand total of 4 are currently on the roster (Wall, Beal, Porter, Oubre). All those drafts which included 3 picks in the top 3 of drafts, and 5 in the top 6 overall resulted in these current assets on the team or held as a team asset:

John Wall
Bradley Beal
Otto Porter
Kelly Oubre
Marcin Gortat
Tomas Satoranksy (signed for several more years in Europe)
Aaron White (a body, possibly with potential in Europe)

You've got the number wrong; it's worse. We had 4 in 2010, 3 in 2011, 3 in 2012, 3 in 2013, 2 in 2014, 2 in 2015 and (going forward) 2 each in 2016 and 2017.

That's 21 in total. Our assets that we got by using or trading those picks are: Wall, Beal, Porter, Oubre, a 1-year rental of Gortat, Morris, the NBA rights to Satoransky (w/o any leverage from them), and the NBA rights to Aaron White.

IOW: 2 guys who've pretty much established they were good picks (Wall and Porter), 1 year of Gortat (whom in fact we *did not* acquire via throwing away the R1 pick for him but instead by signing him as an Unrestricted FA *after* throwing away the R1 pick for a 1-season rental of his services), 1 raw but talented (but awfully raw!) rookie (Oubre) who may or may not develop, and the big question mark named Brad Beal.

The other assets (Morris, nba rights of sato and white) are of very marginal value, wouldn't bring much back.

Basically from that enormous number of picks, many of which were very very high, our known benefit amounts to Wall, Porter & Oubre. Only a fool would see that as worthy work by a professional basketball executive.

What *should* we have. Well, obviously you don't hit a home run every time, but at least we should have:

John Wall
Kevin Booker (we let him go, and then trade a lottery pick for Morris? A guy who isn't as good as Booker?)
Kawhi Leonard
Kenneth Faried
Chandler Parsons or Shelvin Mack
Bradley Beal (the big question mark)
Jae Crowder or Draymond Green
Kyle O'Quinn (this pick was flushed in the okariza deal -- which also brought us absolutely nothing that built the team, btw)
Otto Porter
a player from R2 in 2013 -- our #38 pick (or some asset for which that was partial payment)
a player from R2 in 2013 -- our #58 pick (or some asset for which that was partial payment)
a player from R1 in 2014 -- (Caboclo?, Capela? Bogdonavic? Anderson? or some other asset we'd traded the pick to acquire)
Jordan Clarkson
Kelly Oubre
rights to Aaron White

The difference between what we *should* have and what we *do* have is obviously enormous! I've bolded the missing pieces. Ernie had the opportunity to build a team that could win the East. I've left out 2009, or else it'd be a team that *did* win an NBA title and looks to repeat!

In short, a disgusting record of failure. We're 38-41.

I don't like EG or Wittman, but I voted for the pick. As seen in Cleveland, a poorly-managed franchise can fall butt-backwards into contender status with the luck of the lottery on their side. Would a top-3 pick and, say, Oubre and salary filler be enough to bring in another star in a Kevin Love-like trade? Maybe. Would that extra star make us good enough to attract Durant? I wouldn't mind having the chance to find out.

Besides: Ted could always part ways with EG and Wittman after next season.

The Consiglieri wrote:

thricethefun wrote:

LyricalRico wrote:Seeing as how Witt has a good chance of beng fired either way, it might boil down to Ernie or a top 3 pick. Tough to turn down that pick...

That's not the point of the poll. In this scenario if you get the pick you have to keep Witt

Doesn't matter, it's easy to turn down the pick when you look at what that hack did with 5 top 6 overall picks between '09-'13, and 3 top 3 overall picks. Basically expletive all. Getting rid of a talentless hack of a GM and hiring a competent one is priceless. EG has had 3 top 3 picks and look at the drain were slowly circling down. Easy decision to fire them and go without the pick.

We had 2 second rounders in '10?

As for the picks themselves, I'm not sure we can go by your list simply from the stand point that we can't necessairly hit on every 2nd, its highly unlikely, and secondly, hitting early on some picks, changes future picks (if we take Curry in '09, as a board majority wanted, then we probably don't take Wall in '10, but rather Cousins, Turner, or Favors). However the thing that frightens me the most is simply going by message board majority support, the team would look like this:

Back Court:
Wall
Curry
Beal
Clarkson

Swing:
Leonard

Front Court:
Crowder
Faried
Booker
Noel
O'Quinn
Oubre/Portis

It's just mind boggling to think how much talent could have been drafted by the Wizards if the Ted had actually just called a board moderator, asked for who won the most votes for each draft pick starting in 2009 in the 5 mins before the pick was due via voting poll's (that's how we get Noel instead of Porter), just mind boggling. At bare minimum the team would have had 3 all stars, and in Beal, Clarkson, Crowder, Faried, and Noel, valuable assets and good players in and of themselves (admittedly Noel has a long way to go). This btw, isn't taking into account all of those picks, it's only taking into account the picks I think a clear majority of the board would have supported, there are still another 10 picks in play. Think about that, these are just the players I'm sure the majority of the board would have voted to pick, there is still those first rounders in '10 (the Seraphin pick), '14 (the Gortat pick that was wasted), and the mystery '16 pick (since a strong majority of the board hated the Morris trade) plus a ton of 2nd rounders that I can't remember any consensus for in one way or the other.

Something is seriously wrong when a hundred or two hundred or so wizards fans who've found realgm, and post there, clearly, emphatically, and unambiguously would collected a draft haul literally 3x as deep at minimum in top of the line talent, and probably 5x as deep in quality starters and rotational bench players as the actual front office did, with nearly 30 years of experience in the league in comparison. It's a straight up <expletive> embarrassment that this is true, and for a fan base that dealt with Charlie Casserly blowing every single first round pick he made from 1990-1997, and whose draft day hauls from 1989-1999 would yield fewer long term starters and bench players than any other team in the NFL, and then had to suffer with Snyder's solution to Casserly's ineptitude, hiring a guy so hopeless that the dumb and dumber F.O. that destroyed the first half decade of the now 18 year nose dive that has been Cleveland Browns 2.0 (Policy and Clark) didn't think he was good enough to take with them, and of course he then drove the redskins into the ground with a disastrous run from 2002-2009 that was so bad, it trumped the basic Max Max level apocalyptic reign that was Shanny '10-'13.

When is enough enough for DC sports fans? For <expletive's> sake, we've dealt with Matt Williams destroying the chances the Nats could win the world series with its 2012-2015 class, and entirely wasted the Strassburg years, we already know ownership is flushing its chances of resigning Harper down the toilet, the Redskins went into the toilet in '93, and still haven't resurfaced, I was a senior in high school the last time non-homer redskin fans actually season to season expected the redskins to make the playoffs, I'm 41 now. It's just excruciating.

Seriously Ted, wherever you are, just the dumbest, most mediocre, and most intellectually sophisticated of posters at this board (and I'm fine with being called Dumbest), their majority selections during the '09-'15 classes would have yielded 3 all stars, and another 6 starters, when it comes to just half of the picks, and minus multiple first rounders. What we actually got for a guy you paid millions of dollars, was 1 all star, and 2 starters. Think about that. In totality its probably reasonable to argue that if this board had been allowed to run those drafts we would have landed 3 all stars, 7-9 starters, another 3-5 reserves, and probably somewhere between about 5-7 busts. Instead essentially we've gotten depending upon how you evaluate things, between 14-17 busts, and a roster that's even worse than the one that earned us the right to pick Steph Curry if this board had been GM in 2009 (and I say this as someone who probably would have stupidly taken rubio instead, which is kind of crazy considering how much I liked Curry during his tourney run with Davidson following the '07-'08 season).

The Consiglieri wrote:We had 2 second rounders in '10?

We went into the draft w/ the #1, #17 (from chicago), #30, and #35 picks.

We traded #s 30 and 35 to the TWolves for their #s23 (moving up to get Booker) and 58 (w/ which we picked Hamady N'Diaye).

Consig --

I'm not sure the Board majority was for Noel in 2013. I was happy w/ Porter being picked, and I'd still rather have Porter. I don't think it's even close to tell the truth -- which is not to say that I dislike Noel. It's just that Porter has been terrific. There was also much support here for Alex Len and even for McLemore.

I wasn't here in 2010 -- was there support for picking Booker?

Nor in 2011 -- were there a lot of people who wanted Leonard @ #6? I'm not sure that's true. Pretty sure the majority wanted Faried w/ that pick. And there was some support for Singleton when we took him.

Did anyone identify Chandler Parsons as the guy to take in R2 that year? I did, but on another board.

I also don't think there was a majority for taking Crowder instead of Sato in 2012. Kevin and I and CCJ liked him, but a lot of people here thought Sato was a great pick. And no one but me, to my recollection, even mentioned Kyle O'Quinn. Just as no one mentioned Alan Williams but me last year.

I also don't think anyone here singled out Jordan Clarkson in 2014 -- not me, not CCJ, not anyone else. We wouldn't have traded the pick, but we wouldn't have picked Clarkson either. The Lakers FO gets the credit for that, we get no credit.

I.e. I'm not so sure just going w/ the board majority would have been as effective as you think.

Note that when we traded for Markieff "The Jolt" Morris we were 2 1/2 games out of the 8th spot and likely to get the @11th pick in the draft. Now we are mathematically eliminated and are 4 games out of the 8th spot, and we have no pick at all.

It's not just any GM who can accomplish that kind of thing with a simple phone call, ok? It takes work, planning, more than a decade of experience before you can stand over your own bowl of soup and p#ss in it.