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Free agency has not closed yet, but we can still get the discussion going about how the Eastern Conference is shaping up. Orlando is quietly out-working us even-though Ibaka is a rental. Orlando adds:

Ibaka - PF
Green - SF
Biyombo - C

Orlando still needs a PG, but they shook things up w/o wildly overpaying, the Biyombo deal is better than the Moz contract.

Ask me about this thread later lol.

You think Orlando had a good offseason though? Don't confuse activity for results.

Orlando has had a pretty bad offseason

gtn130 wrote:Orlando has had a pretty bad offseason

Not good, but better than our off-season (so-far)

gtn130 wrote:Orlando has had a pretty bad offseason

Agreed. I can at least understand the Fournier signing, even if it's an overpayment. But if they were going to sign Biyombo all along, they might as well have kept Oladipo and their lotto pick. They basically just guaranteed that Ibaka will be a one year rental IMO. How can they overpay to keep him next summer with so much invested in Vucevic/Biyombo?

Hating on the Wiz is very much in style, but when the dust settles I'm not sure as many other teams will be demonstrably better as they may appear during the first 48 hours of the offseason. Like Dat said, let's revisit in a couple weeks. At least wait until we see some rookies play in SL.

LyricalRico wrote:

gtn130 wrote:Orlando has had a pretty bad offseason

Agreed. I can at least understand the Fournier signing, even if it's an overpayment. But if they were going to sign Biyombo all along, they might as well have kept Oladipo and their lotto pick. They basically just guaranteed that Ibaka will be a one year rental IMO. How can they overpay to keep him next summer with so much invested in Vucevic/Biyombo?

Hating on the Wiz is very much in style, but when the dust settles I'm not sure as many other teams will be demonstrably better as they may appear during the first 48 hours of the offseason. Like Dat said, let's revisit in a couple weeks. At least wait until we see some rookies play in SL.

Yep. And the Tobias Harris trade ended up being for a year of Jeff Green.

Orlando is going to kick the Wizards asses next season.

Very fluid at the moment but here would be my rankings so far after the first weekend of free agency.

1. Cleveland
2. Boston - I think the Horford signing puts them over the top, over Toronto
3. Toronto
4. Indiana
5. Charlotte

To me this is where it gets fuzzy. If Bosh isn't coming back then I don't see Miami being a playoff team. I want to say Atlanta is a playoff team but not sure. I think Detroit will be, Wizards as well.

All right! First prediction of the Wizards making the playoffs!

Rafael122 wrote:Very fluid at the moment but here would be my rankings so far after the first weekend of free agency.

1. Cleveland
2. Boston - I think the Horford signing puts them over the top, over Toronto
3. Toronto
4. Indiana
5. Charlotte

To me this is where it gets fuzzy. If Bosh isn't coming back then I don't see Miami being a playoff team. I want to say Atlanta is a playoff team but not sure. I think Detroit will be, Wizards as well.

Wasn't Big Al a key piece for the Cats? Now they have a Zeller/Hawes front court...still time to add someone though.

^ Yeah, Charlotte is gonna have a hole in the middle. I think they take a step back. Same with Atlanta - the downgrade from Horford to Howard and also gave away Teague. On the other hand, Orlando had improve their frontcourt and coaching so the division will still be tight.

Our best chance for the playoffs may be to win our division.

The homer in me puts the Wiz ahead of Charlotte, particularly after all that they've lost and the Wiz seem to have Detroit's number but Atlanta seems to have ours.

Quick look at the rest of the East so far, in no real order

Cleveland -- champs
Boston -- added Horford and the #3 pick. Lost Turner and nothing else yet
Toronto -- lost Biyombo, struck out on all their other targets to date, and overpaid an overrated Derozan; they have gotten worse so far
Indy -- swapped out G Hill, Solomon Hill and Mahinmi for Teague, Thad Young and Big Al. Seems like a production wash -- better O, worse D
Charlotte -- Swapped Jefferson and Lin for Hibbert and Sessions. K.
Orlando -- Oladipo, Ilyasova, Jennings, Nicholson, Dedmon out -- Jeff Green, Ibaka, Biyombo, Meeks and DJ Augustin in. Okay. Nice interior D, I suppose. Not sure how they'll score.
Philly -- bunch of nice additions, but tthey won 10 games last year
Miami -- lost Deng and Tyler Johnson -- no replacements yet. That's certainly a net loss. Bosh's future is also uncertain.
Miwaukee -- Bayless out, Dellavadova and Teletovic in. Okay; they won 33 games last year
Chicago -- Pau, Noah, Rose out. Lopez, Rondo, Calderon and Grant in. Could be an upgrade, but you get the sense they are in transition and searching for identity
ATL -- Teague and Horford out. Dwight and a rookie in. Seems like a significant net loss.
Knicks -- Lopez, Afflalo, Calderon, Grant., etc out. In = Noah, Rose, Courtney Lee, Brandon Jennings. Health is huge question mark, but I think they got appreciably better.
Brooklyn -- lost Thad Young and signed several guys with upside, but they won 21 games last year
Detroit -- lost Anthony Tolliver and added Ish Smith and Jon Leuer

So of the teams that finished higher than the Wizards, only the Celtics seems to have taken a big step forward. I can see the Wizards finishing anywhere between 3rd and 10th, and would imagine they'll finish between 5th and 7th. 6th or higher likely to avoid CLeveland and Boston in the first round. Hooray!

LyricalRico wrote:

gtn130 wrote:Orlando has had a pretty bad offseason

Agreed. I can at least understand the Fournier signing, even if it's an overpayment. But if they were going to sign Biyombo all along, they might as well have kept Oladipo and their lotto pick. They basically just guaranteed that Ibaka will be a one year rental IMO. How can they overpay to keep him next summer with so much invested in Vucevic/Biyombo?

Hating on the Wiz is very much in style, but when the dust settles I'm not sure as many other teams will be demonstrably better as they may appear during the first 48 hours of the offseason. Like Dat said, let's revisit in a couple weeks. At least wait until we see some rookies play in SL.

The Magic have added Ibaka, Biyombo, & Augustin. Plus Green for one year.

In the draft they got Zimmerman.

The Ibaka trade, like last season's trade of Tobias Harris moved a young guy in their core, who they thought would wind up being paid more than was worth, in return for cap flexibility. They'll have plenty of cap room to re-sign Ibaka as well as room to add another FA as well.

Don't know how it'll turn out, but I wouldn't rush to judgment, that's for sure.

payitforward wrote:

LyricalRico wrote:

gtn130 wrote:Orlando has had a pretty bad offseason

Agreed. I can at least understand the Fournier signing, even if it's an overpayment. But if they were going to sign Biyombo all along, they might as well have kept Oladipo and their lotto pick. They basically just guaranteed that Ibaka will be a one year rental IMO. How can they overpay to keep him next summer with so much invested in Vucevic/Biyombo?

Hating on the Wiz is very much in style, but when the dust settles I'm not sure as many other teams will be demonstrably better as they may appear during the first 48 hours of the offseason. Like Dat said, let's revisit in a couple weeks. At least wait until we see some rookies play in SL.

The Magic have added Ibaka, Biyombo, & Augustin. In the draft they got Zimmerman.

The Ibaka trade, like last season's trade of Tobias Harris moved a young guy in their core, who they thought would wind up being paid more than was worth, in return for cap flexibility. They'll have plenty of cap room to re-sign Ibaka as well as room to add another FA as well.

Don't know how it'll turn out, but I wouldn't rush to judgment, that's for sure.

Orlando has no outside shooting to speak of.

I'm wish Fish, I think we'll settle anywhere from 5th-8th, I think the sweet spot would be 5th, potential meeting with a southeast opponent or Indiana who will have defensive issues all year.

fishercob wrote:Quick look at the rest of the East so far, in no real order

Cleveland -- champs
Boston -- added Horford and the #3 pick. Lost Turner and nothing else yet
Toronto -- lost Biyombo, struck out on all their other targets to date, and overpaid an overrated Derozan; they have gotten worse so far
Indy -- swapped out G Hill, Solomon Hill and Mahinmi for Teague, Thad Young and Big Al. Seems like a production wash -- better O, worse D
Charlotte -- Swapped Jefferson and Lin for Hibbert and Sessions. K.
Orlando -- Oladipo, Ilyasova, Jennings, Nicholson, Dedmon out -- Jeff Green, Ibaka, Biyombo, Meeks and DJ Augustin in. Okay. Nice interior D, I suppose. Not sure how they'll score.
Philly -- bunch of nice additions, but tthey won 10 games last year
Miami -- lost Deng and Tyler Johnson -- no replacements yet. That's certainly a net loss. Bosh's future is also uncertain.
Miwaukee -- Bayless out, Dellavadova and Teletovic in. Okay; they won 33 games last year
Chicago -- Pau, Noah, Rose out. Lopez, Rondo, Calderon and Grant in. Could be an upgrade, but you get the sense they are in transition and searching for identity
ATL -- Teague and Horford out. Dwight and a rookie in. Seems like a significant net loss.
Knicks -- Lopez, Afflalo, Calderon, Grant., etc out. In = Noah, Rose, Courtney Lee, Brandon Jennings. Health is huge question mark, but I think they got appreciably better.
Brooklyn -- lost Thad Young and signed several guys with upside, but they won 21 games last year
Detroit -- lost Anthony Tolliver and added Ish Smith and Jon Leuer

So of the teams that finished higher than the Wizards, only the Celtics seems to have taken a big step forward. I can see the Wizards finishing anywhere between 3rd and 10th, and would imagine they'll finish between 5th and 7th. 6th or higher likely to avoid CLeveland and Boston in the first round. Hooray!

Another Wizards playoff prediction! (or at least a "would imagine")

fishercob wrote:Quick look at the rest of the East so far, in no real order

Cleveland -- champs
Boston -- added Horford and the #3 pick. Lost Turner and nothing else yet
Toronto -- lost Biyombo, struck out on all their other targets to date, and overpaid an overrated Derozan; they have gotten worse so far
Indy -- swapped out G Hill, Solomon Hill and Mahinmi for Teague, Thad Young and Big Al. Seems like a production wash -- better O, worse D
Charlotte -- Swapped Jefferson and Lin for Hibbert and Sessions. K.
Orlando -- Oladipo, Ilyasova, Jennings, Nicholson, Dedmon out -- Jeff Green, Ibaka, Biyombo, Meeks and DJ Augustin in. Okay. Nice interior D, I suppose. Not sure how they'll score.
Philly -- bunch of nice additions, but tthey won 10 games last year
Miami -- lost Deng and Tyler Johnson -- no replacements yet. That's certainly a net loss. Bosh's future is also uncertain.
Miwaukee -- Bayless out, Dellavadova and Teletovic in. Okay; they won 33 games last year
Chicago -- Pau, Noah, Rose out. Lopez, Rondo, Calderon and Grant in. Could be an upgrade, but you get the sense they are in transition and searching for identity
ATL -- Teague and Horford out. Dwight and a rookie in. Seems like a significant net loss.
Knicks -- Lopez, Afflalo, Calderon, Grant., etc out. In = Noah, Rose, Courtney Lee, Brandon Jennings. Health is huge question mark, but I think they got appreciably better.
Brooklyn -- lost Thad Young and signed several guys with upside, but they won 21 games last year
Detroit -- lost Anthony Tolliver and added Ish Smith and Jon Leuer

So of the teams that finished higher than the Wizards, only the Celtics seems to have taken a big step forward. I can see the Wizards finishing anywhere between 3rd and 10th, and would imagine they'll finish between 5th and 7th. 6th or higher likely to avoid CLeveland and Boston in the first round. Hooray!

Real nice breakdown fishercob.

The only thing I'd add is:

Washington -- lost Nene, Sessions, Dudley, Temple. Added Mahinmi, Burke, Nicholson and Sato. I think that's likely to be a downgrade at every position except perhaps the Nene for Mahinmi swap. I think Nene is better than Mahinmi for 1000 minutes per year, but Mahinmi is more durable and can play a lot more than 1000 minutes. Unfortunately, assuming good health, there really isn't much more than a 1300 or so minutes available behind Gortat.

We were 10th last year. Miami, Toronto and Atlanta seemed to take the biggest hit, but all were so far ahead of us that I don't think we catch them - maybe we catch Miami if they lose Bosh. We can probably catch Chicago but could conceivably be caught from behind by New York or Milwaukee. I predict a 9th or 10th place finish.

Of the 9 EC teams better than the Wizards last year 8 of them still seem certain to me to be better than the Wizards -- Cleveland, Toronto, Boston, Indiana, Charlotte, Detroit, Chicago & Atlanta.

Miami -- still too much in flux to make a call. But they won 7 more games than we did last year. That's a big delta.

About Chicago -- They're in a transition, obviously. But, in fact they could be a bunch of games better than last year. Dealing Rose was a positive. Replacing Gasol w/ Lopez won't cost them more than maybe one win on the season. Rondo is a big positive jump at the 1. Butler was injured last year. In fact, they could be very good this year. They added Valentine who'll be a very mature rookie. If Zipser comes over, he could be the surprise of the draft.

Of the 5 teams worse than we were, Orlando was the closest with 35 wins to our 41. I can't see them being better this year, to tell the truth. Without a close look, I'll also say that Milwaukee seems unlikely to be going anywhere. Philly and Brooklyn are no threat to pass us.

The Knicks are going to be awful. Noah for Lopez is basically a wash. Rose is not a good player any more. Jennings isn't any good either. And Lee is meh. Poor Porzingis on that awful roster.

Where does that leave us? Right where we were for the moment. Guys who played nearly half of all our minutes are no longer with the team. Mahinmi, Burke and Nicholson aren't going to combine to play half our minutes.

nate33 wrote:Washington -- lost Nene, Sessions, Dudley, Temple. Added Mahinmi, Burke, Nicholson and Sato. I think that's likely to be a downgrade at every position except perhaps the Nene for Mahinmi swap. I think Nene is better than Mahinmi for 1000 minutes per year, but Mahinmi is more durable and can play a lot more than 1000 minutes. Unfortunately, assuming good health, there really isn't much more than a 1300 or so minutes available behind Gortat.

Nene played 1097 minutes last year. Mahinmi played 1816. Mahinmi was a lot better than Nene, nate. All other things equal, I'd say that had Mahinmi played those minutes of Nene's we'd have won 2 more games, something like that.

OTOH, had Burke played Sessions minutes, we'd likely have lost 3 more games. Nicholson, had he played Dudley's minutes, might have cost us a game as well.

It's hard for me to see how we'll be better than we were last year. We could easily be worse. But, Satoransky is an unknown, and the roster isn't complete. Things may get better, who knows?