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2016 Offseason (continued)

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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#601 » by montestewart » Tue Nov 1, 2016 12:36 am

dckingsfan wrote:David Aldridge: At the moment extensions not looking likely for Otto Porter & Kelly Olynyk.

Where does this belong?

I put it here but it could also go in the So Wizards thread.
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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#602 » by payitforward » Tue Nov 1, 2016 12:38 am

It would be vintage Grunfeld to extend Beal and not extend Porter, who is a much much better player with much more upside. Look for him to trade Porter for Gay. This generation of the Wizards is over.

I've been calling for Grunfeld to be fired since right after the 2011 draft -- and I didn't think much of him before that either. Thing is, if the repeated bungling for year after year hasn't gotten him fired by now, what would make Ted fire him at this point?
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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#603 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Nov 1, 2016 11:59 am

Ted being the owner is the problem. Grunfeld has his enabler.

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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#604 » by queridiculo » Tue Nov 1, 2016 12:12 pm

payitforward wrote:It would be vintage Grunfeld to extend Beal and not extend Porter, who is a much much better player with much more upside. Look for him to trade Porter for Gay. This generation of the Wizards is over.

I've been calling for Grunfeld to be fired since right after the 2011 draft -- and I didn't think much of him before that either. Thing is, if the repeated bungling for year after year hasn't gotten him fired by now, what would make Ted fire him at this point?


Two things make me a bit optimistic that Grunfeld's tenure might be coming to an end.

The perpetually expiring contract finally, or eventually really expiring at some point, and/or Leonsis rewarding Grunfeld for his loyalty and strict adherence to the plan by transitioning him to a new role in the Monumental Entertainment Conglomerate.
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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#605 » by montestewart » Tue Nov 1, 2016 12:45 pm

queridiculo wrote:
payitforward wrote:It would be vintage Grunfeld to extend Beal and not extend Porter, who is a much much better player with much more upside. Look for him to trade Porter for Gay. This generation of the Wizards is over.

I've been calling for Grunfeld to be fired since right after the 2011 draft -- and I didn't think much of him before that either. Thing is, if the repeated bungling for year after year hasn't gotten him fired by now, what would make Ted fire him at this point?


Two things make me a bit optimistic that Grunfeld's tenure might be coming to an end.

The perpetually expiring contract finally, or eventually really expiring at some point, and/or Leonsis rewarding Grunfeld for his loyalty and strict adherence to the plan by transitioning him to a new role in the Monumental Entertainment Conglomerate.

Any excitement over the end of GMEG (however he is transitioned from that role) should be tempered by Terd remaining the owner. He put loyalty to EG over loyalty to the franchise and its fans, doesn't seem all that interested in W-L, and seems to put willing subordination over competence. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll stumble onto some young, ambitious genius who wants desperately to win and also knows how to sell his vision to his bosses while appearing compliant. And if they do get lucky and land such a GM, Leonsis will be sure that luck had nothing to do with it.

EDIT TO ADD: I don't know that Terd actually has retained EG out of loyalty rather than just being clueless or not giving a crap as long as the $$$ look good.
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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#606 » by payitforward » Sun Nov 6, 2016 10:29 pm

Just wondering whether any of you who thought we had a good off season feel like checking in here with any further comment:

1. Those who thought we got a steal, potentially a real gem in Nicholson even though he's earned 823 minutes on a 35 win team last year and didn't get a qualifying offer -- "never had a real chance" was one of the refrains I heard.
2. Those who thought it was a good idea to trade for Trey Burke.
3. Those (few) who thought signing Jason Smith for 3 guaranteed years wasn't such a bad idea.
4. Those who thought hiring Scott Brooks as coach was going to make a big positive difference for this team.
5. Those who had Satoransky as RoY.

Of course, any of those things could still turn out to be true. And if you still think well of any of those moves, now might be a good time to check in with some encouragement.
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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#607 » by AFM » Sun Nov 6, 2016 10:44 pm

I'm still on board for No. 5, with MVP to match.
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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#608 » by TGW » Mon Nov 7, 2016 2:59 am

The second rounder we sold to the Lakers--Jordan Clarkson--is arguably better than our starting shooting guard who we gave $125MM to. That should tell you all you need to know about this front office.
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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#609 » by DCZards » Mon Nov 7, 2016 5:40 am

payitforward wrote:Just wondering whether any of you who thought we had a good off season feel like checking in here with any further comment:

1. Those who thought we got a steal, potentially a real gem in Nicholson even though he's earned 823 minutes on a 35 win team last year and didn't get a qualifying offer -- "never had a real chance" was one of the refrains I heard.
2. Those who thought it was a good idea to trade for Trey Burke.
3. Those (few) who thought signing Jason Smith for 3 guaranteed years wasn't such a bad idea.
4. Those who thought hiring Scott Brooks as coach was going to make a big positive difference for this team.
5. Those who had Satoransky as RoY.

Of course, any of those things could still turn out to be true. And if you still think well of any of those moves, now might be a good time to check in with some encouragement.


1. Yes, I was one of those with high hopes for Nicholson. He's been just so-so at best thus far. I like AN's offensive skills around the basket but he's a real liability defensively. Nicholson has been hurt by the absence of Mahinmi. He's been forced into being the first big off the bench, often being asked to come in for Gortat at the center position, which Nicholson is ill-suited for. Let's see how AN plays alongside Ian.

2. Ok...ok...it looks like I was dead wrong to think that a change of teams, coaches and systems would make Burke at least a serviceable backup PG. But I still consider the trade of a second round pick 5 years from now for Burke a low-risk move.

3. I was never on board with the Smith signing.

4. It's far too early to tell what the impact of hiring Brooks will be. I think he'll be a big improvement over Witt. I expect Scott to be very good for the careers of the Zards most important youngins'--Wall, Beal, Porter and Oubre. I am thrilled to see that Brooks already has Wall attacking the basket much more...rather than settling for short jumpers.

5. I never considered Sato a RoY candidate, although it would be great if he ended up in the discussion. I do like what I've seen from him thus far, especially after being thrust into a starting role in his fifth NBA game. I like the poise, smarts and defensive intensity that Sato has displayed. Kid has a ways to go but it looks like he has the physical and mental tools to be a good NBA player.
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Re: RE: Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#610 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Nov 7, 2016 6:17 am

montestewart wrote:
queridiculo wrote:
payitforward wrote:It would be vintage Grunfeld to extend Beal and not extend Porter, who is a much much better player with much more upside. Look for him to trade Porter for Gay. This generation of the Wizards is over.

I've been calling for Grunfeld to be fired since right after the 2011 draft -- and I didn't think much of him before that either. Thing is, if the repeated bungling for year after year hasn't gotten him fired by now, what would make Ted fire him at this point?


Two things make me a bit optimistic that Grunfeld's tenure might be coming to an end.

The perpetually expiring contract finally, or eventually really expiring at some point, and/or Leonsis rewarding Grunfeld for his loyalty and strict adherence to the plan by transitioning him to a new role in the Monumental Entertainment Conglomerate.

Any excitement over the end of GMEG (however he is transitioned from that role) should be tempered by Terd remaining the owner. He put loyalty to EG over loyalty to the franchise and its fans, doesn't seem all that interested in W-L, and seems to put willing subordination over competence. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll stumble onto some young, ambitious genius who wants desperately to win and also knows how to sell his vision to his bosses while appearing compliant. And if they do get lucky and land such a GM, Leonsis will be sure that luck had nothing to do with it.

EDIT TO ADD: I don't know that Terd actually has retained EG out of loyalty rather than just being clueless or not giving a crap as long as the $$$ look good.

Montestewart, my theory on Ted and EG....("sitting by a tree, k i s s i n g")...

1. They have many strands of familiarity and mutual friendship. Forty years ago both were New Yorkers.

When EG was a schoolboy legend Teddy was there to witness local and national media coverage.

Further, EG has a very extensive (as in 40 years), (subjectively) impressive record as an NBA player and executive. Teddy reveres Ernie IMO. The resume looks sterling, perhaps.

I think Ernie is godlike in Teddy Billions' eyes. Nothing is gonna change that.

2. Greek immigrant parents, Ted. Romanian immigrant parents, Ernie.

Culturally, their lives parallel. The conversations they must have. Trips to the "old country", tradition, humble beginnings, making good in America, etc.

3.$$$ and subservience (nice, fitting word, montestewart).

One of the first things Ernie did at Teddy Billions' request was to publicly throw Arenas under the bus. He then managed to find an Arenas taker (a sucker!) in Otis Smith. Shaving that contract year is something big money Ted loved. That earned EG capo status IMO.

Since then, he has had blind loyalty from Teddy. Vesely who? Mike Miller and Randy Foye over Curry? Just part of ... The Plan.

4. Us against the world.

I truly believe Ted considers EG a true friend. Lackey and friend.

Ernie is protective. He's a great big, secure-in-his-stature (but otherwise is IMO a virtually-clueless-about-building-a-winning-team) dude. He is above all subservient. Ted? Like Brain in "Pinky and the Brain", he's a little dynamo. He is "Brain". And GMEG?

Image

Ernie and Teddy



Sometimes, hating can be fun.

How? Just call it a plan.
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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#611 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Nov 7, 2016 9:13 am

Ted Leonsis

What a diverse dude!

I criticized him so brutally that I felt the need to educate myself. I really don't know so much...

Having read the information on that link, I'm formulating a better character analysis.

I believe Theodore Leonsis is simply spread so thin that the Wizards aren't too high on his purview.

It's expedient for him to have blind faith in EG.

This and what I said above.



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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#612 » by payitforward » Mon Nov 7, 2016 2:58 pm

Yup. Ted has very little attention for the Wizards and very little concern about how well the team does. In fact, frustration by fans leads to "clickstreams," which he likes.

The only way change will come is if Ted identifies the current Wizards' performance, and Ernie, as bad for business. Other than that, we're screwed.
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Re: RE: Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#613 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Nov 7, 2016 3:01 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Image

Ernie and Teddy


Now, now, Pinky and the Brain actually come close to taking over the world on many occasions. Ernie and Ted have trouble taking over a .500 record. No way could Ted and Ernie come up with such a brilliant strategy; in fact, I think they have the opposite one where all of their own players get hurt rather than the other team's.

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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#614 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Nov 8, 2016 5:37 am

OUTSTANDING, I_Like_Dirt!

Watched every second of the clip. :)

The Cobblestone Cloggers coulda been contenders. :)
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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#615 » by tontoz » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:36 am

Should have let Beal walk. That could quickly become the worst contract in the league, if it isn't already.
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Re: RE: Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#616 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:04 am

tontoz wrote:Should have let Beal walk. That could quickly become the worst contract in the league, if it isn't already.

While I agree all is not lost.

Beal is handsome, young, well-raised, seemingly wholesome. He WILL get hot, eventually. He can be a decent defender.

Future trade likely?

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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#617 » by Dat2U » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:24 am

payitforward wrote:Just wondering whether any of you who thought we had a good off season feel like checking in here with any further comment:

1. Those who thought we got a steal, potentially a real gem in Nicholson even though he's earned 823 minutes on a 35 win team last year and didn't get a qualifying offer -- "never had a real chance" was one of the refrains I heard.
2. Those who thought it was a good idea to trade for Trey Burke.
3. Those (few) who thought signing Jason Smith for 3 guaranteed years wasn't such a bad idea.
4. Those who thought hiring Scott Brooks as coach was going to make a big positive difference for this team.
5. Those who had Satoransky as RoY.

Of course, any of those things could still turn out to be true. And if you still think well of any of those moves, now might be a good time to check in with some encouragement.


1. Nicholson is a sh*t defender and a black hole on offense. He's the Marcus Thornton of PFs but then again he's so slow he might be better off at C even tho he's only 6-9. I thought of Nicholson as a 3rd string PF when we signed him.

2. The Burke acquisition was a terrible one. At least Brooks has learned already that he's an SG and not a PG. He may hit some shots here and there but I see it as fools gold like Gary Neal last year. The defense will be so bad it doesn't matter how good his jumper is, you simply can't afford to play him much.

3. I think only a handful of Orlando fans thought this was a good idea. The Smith/Nicholson combo is costing us a combined $42 million. $11 million per over the next 3 yrs. That's a lot of coin for what amounts to 3rd stringers.

4. Brooks IMO is a better coach. But he's not a miracle worker. I think the team in general is making it a priority to get to the rim this season and draw more fouls. This is good. The continuous mid-range barrage from Wall, Beal & Morris are not good at all. Wall has historically gotten off to slow starts to start the year, so has Gortat. I expect Wall will round it into gear as the season goes on and he gets his legs under him coming off of double knee surgery. I expected the bench to be bad, but not this bad. Beal will need to not stink up the joint as much as he has if the playoffs are going to be possible.

5. Sato looks like he could be a nice role player. He's got a good feel for the game and is more of a PG than I thought. He even defends better than I could have hoped. But his limited shot making ability will keep him a fairly marginal piece unless it gets better.
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Re: RE: Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#618 » by Dat2U » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:36 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
tontoz wrote:Should have let Beal walk. That could quickly become the worst contract in the league, if it isn't already.

While I agree all is not lost.

Beal is handsome, young, well-raised, seemingly wholesome. He WILL get hot, eventually. He can be a decent defender.

Future trade likely?

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Once Beal gets healthy and has a good game, swap him to Philly for Noel, Holmes & Covington. I think Philly can just take on the salary.

Then swap Gortat for an SG. Would Cleveland do it for Iman Shumpert & throw in Kay Felder?

C Ian Mahinmi / Nerlens Noel / Jason Suck
F Otto Porter / Markieff Morris / Richaun Holmes / Andrew NicholSuck
F Robert Covington / Kelly Oubre Jr
G Iman Shumpert / Sheldon McClellan / Marcus Thornton / Trey BurkeSuck
G John Wall / Tomas Satoransky / Kay Felder

If we could find away to dump the Suck Bros. we could come up with some decent cap room for the off-season. Maybe a deal involving dumping either Smith or Nicholson with Markieff for an expiring.
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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#619 » by tontoz » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:41 am

You don't sign a guy to a huge deal in hopes of trading him the following year because then you have to take back equal salary. The only possible good that could come of this deal is that it might be enough to finally get EG canned.
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Re: 2016 Offseason (continued) 

Post#620 » by Ruzious » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:30 pm

And the problem if Beal does rehab his trade value - that will only serve to make Ted and Ernie think they did the right thing by signing him - making him virtually untouchable. We are stuck with Beal unless/until Ted fires Ernie. Ted... Fire Ernie!
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